A young woman was killed in the Capitol today

[bigsky]

“What if you knew her, and found her dead on the ground?”

Why were shots fired? Whose life was she threatening?

Was anyone arrested for her murder?

I believe that is the story tonight. She had a family, a story, a life. My condolences to her family and friends.

[kingcat]

it's sad anytime a life is lost. I don't envision anyone here as heartless when something like that happens. If that is the implication.
But this was an attack on our government and the officers defending it, there is no mistake about it.
I'd direct such a question to the instigating culprit himself and those who supported the attack. She was likely doing what she thought trump and his supporters wanted her to do for them. By the way, 13 people were arrested, and five firearms were recovered...in our nations capitol. Along with explosive devices.
A police officer was hospitalized along with several others.

D.C. police chief Robert J. Contee III said the mob of Trump voters came to Capitol Hill "following the president's remarks" and was "intent on causing harm to our officers by deploying chemical irritants on police to force entry into the United States Capitol."

This wasn't kids like we were then smoking pot and sitting on college grounds peacefully, and imo it's not fair to their memory to compare them to an armed attack on this nation and it's capitol.

An attack on America.



.

[UKHistory]

Prayers to her family. Whether she knew what she was doing or not, she stormed the United States Capitol in an act of insurrection against the legitimate government of the United States.

She died a traitor’s death. And while my condolences and prayers to her family and friends are sincere, anyone who stormed our house and lived is is on borrowed time.

Arrest. Try. Administer the proper punishment.

[TRUCKERCATFAN]

Prayers to her family. Whether she knew what she was doing or not, she stormed the United States Capitol in an act of insurrection against the legitimate government of the United States.

She died a traitor’s death. And while my condolences and prayers to her family and friends are sincere, anyone who stormed our house and lived is is on borrowed time.

Arrest. Try. Administer the proper punishment.

The lady who died was Ashley Babbitt, a 14 year Air Force veteran from San Diego who did four tours during her time but you wanna say she’s a traitor. WOW!!

I do not condone what anyone there did today, but let’s make one thing clear. That house belongs to those who stormed it in protest just as much as it belongs to you and I.

[bigsky]

The lady who died was Ashley Babbitt, a 14 year Air Force veteran from San Diego who did four tours during her time but you wanna say she’s a traitor. WOW!!

I do not condone what anyone there did today, but let’s make one thing clear. That house belongs to those who stormed it in protest just as much as it belongs to you and I.
Amen

[TRUCKERCATFAN]

Amen

Your agreement is all the affirmation I need. Thank you sir.

[kingcat]

Ashli was a part, innocent herself or not, of an armed group attacking with guns and chemicals while illegally entering our nations capitol. With a gallows built on the grounds, the walls being scaled, and threats of violence against members of congress. You nor I know her intent. Nor did the officers who only knew she had broken several federal laws at that point.
She did not enter legally nor was she checked for weapons. She was being told to stay back by capitol police as she illegally stormed into the chambers. One of which was still in the hospital last I heard along with others.

"One witness, who identified himself as Thomas from New Jersey, said that after storming into the chambers, police yelled for the mob to get back. He said the woman “didn't heed the call” as they rushed to the chamber windows. "Then they shot her in the neck,” Thomas said"

According to the New York Daily, twitter video shows that "Babbitt was shot near a doorway inside the Capitol among a group of insurrectionists. One video obtained by The News appeared to show Babbitt beginning to climb through the broken window of a door to the “Speaker’s Lobby” when she was shot. It was unclear who pulled the trigger"

It is sad to see someone, anyone die unnecessarily. Yet, I'd refer back to the things being said here about the BLM protests and the suggestions given to law enforcement in protecting a street or vacant building if I were you. Many military veterans were taking part in those too.

And this was much more egregious than any of those protests. No one supports what happened today..do they? The day and the inspiration behind will go down in infamy and is an unprecedented embarrassment to this nation. A part of that embarrassment is that harsher measures were not taken soon enough to protect the capitol building from the terrorists.

[kingcat]

I do not condone what anyone there did today, but let’s make one thing clear. That house belongs to those who stormed it in protest just as much as it belongs to you and I.

The Capitol building belongs to "We The People" housing our elected officials and cannot be treated with blatant disrespect and criminal actions with intent by anyone. Neither foreign invaders nor domestic.
It was a direct attack on that sovereign trust.

[TRUCKERCATFAN]

The Capitol building belongs to "We The People" housing our elected officials and cannot be treated with blatant disrespect and criminal actions with intent by anyone. Neither foreign invaders nor domestic.
It was a direct attack on that sovereign trust.

What they did was wrong. Not questioning it. But those people did have a right to be there. They just had no right to break in and should be punished accordingly.

[kingcat]

What they did was wrong. Not questioning it. But those people did have a right to be there. They just had no right to break in and should be punished accordingly.

Two bombs were found in front of both party headquarters. A long gun and Molotov cocktails were also found on capitol grounds. Thats not to mention the personal weapons, chemical irritants, and a gallows built outside with threats to the senate. The police had barricaded themselves in the chamber and were warning people to turn back, This young lady was shot breaking through that barricade and climbing through broken window glass while ignoring commands to retreat.

All rights were negated in such an insurrection which was a battle zone at that time. It was not a visit to the nations capitol or peaceful protest on the grounds.
I mean, the insurrectionists even scaled the capitol walls??

This was an attack aimed at forcing the senate to switch electoral votes to Trump and basically install trump as supreme leader in spite of any vote. An attack on democracy no ifs, ands, or buts.

The death is indirectly the fault of Donald Trump. The attack was directly his baby along with Giuliani and a few others. By their own words..

Before the attack at the presidents Save America rally in D.C...

The former New York mayor walked on stage to “Macho Man” before calling on Trump supporters to settle the dispute over the election via “trial by combat.” Giuliani then assured the thousands of protesters that he was “willing to stake my reputation,” on the existence of election-altering fraud at play, ignoring the fact that such unfounded claims have repeatedly been laughed out of court. “And if we are wrong we will be made fools of,”

[ukpumacat]

“What if you knew her, and found her dead on the ground?”

Why were shots fired? Whose life was she threatening?

Was anyone arrested for her murder?

I believe that is the story tonight. She had a family, a story, a life. My condolences to her family and friends.

We debated several other deaths on here in the last year.
And to every one of them, almost everyone said something about how the person put themselves in a position to deserve what happened to them. How they did something wrong.
In this case, this lady from my hometown was a part of a giant mob that was armed and storming the United States Capitol where our VP and entire Congress was meeting. And she was shot climbing through a door they smashed that was barricaded with furniture because the staff was so scared.
She wasn’t murdered. No one will be arrested. What happened was horrific and sad all the way around. But frankly, it’s astonishing (and scary) she was the only one shot.

[kingcat]

On the scene Twitter reports claimed rioters ripped an American flag off of a flagpole tossing it to the ground outside the United States Capitol building and replaced it with a Trump flag. This to cheers from the crowd.
Imho only emblematic of what had already occurred in reality all across this country.


I sense the 25th will come into play after todays events.

[Genuine Realist]

I'm no friend of Trump, but also regarded the opposition as hysterical. The Russian collusion theory was absurd, as was the notion of obstruction of justice (without a crime to obstruct) and the impeachment nonsense. Along the way, the Democratic majority in the Senate disgraced itself with Kavanaugh and other times.

That said, Trump crossed into Aaron Burr territory today. On 1/21, he should be arrested and tried for sedition. A substantial prison term. In a different age, it would be the death penalty. This was really serious.

[bigsky]

Welcome to “shoot the looters” everyone trying to justify the shooting.

[Catfan73]

Should have shot a lot more of them in my opinion. This wasn’t some sort of tragedy. This was part of an attempted overthrow of our government.

It’s astounding how much a made up fantasy like Q-Anon can influence people to turn on their own nation, including many that have dedicated their lives to the defense of that country. But once you cross that line from defender to attacker, you’re no better than anyone else.

[bigsky]

“Should have been done long ago” in Porland Minnesota and Wisconsin, eh?

[kingcat]

Any defense of what happened yesterday is a losing proposition. It was an anti American action that requires the condemnation of Americans. And the nations leaders and its huge majority agree.

[bigsky]

Yeah. If you defend Kenosha, Minneapolis and Portland, Atlanta suburb violent riots but are all unglued about the Capitol riot then you have no ethics, just ideology.

So let me be clear; violent riots are wrong, can’t be condoned, and require a forceful, even violent response by government. That does not mean shooting looters, but the catch and release system sends a message of lawlessness. We had a lawless summer and fall. I am bot surprised that we have sown the seeds of violent riot and yesterday we reaped the whirlwind.

[bigsky]

Any defense of what happened yesterday is a losing proposition. It was an anti American action that requires the condemnation of Americans. And the nations leaders and its huge majority agree. any defense of what happened in Minneapolis, Kenosha, Portland, et al is a losing proposition. It is anti american and requires the condemnation of all americans. The failure of the incoming President and Vice President to condemn, perhaps the outright encouragement even, has sowed the seeds of yesterday.

[TRUCKERCATFAN]

any defense of what happened in Minneapolis, Kenosha, Portland, et al is a losing proposition. It is anti american and requires the condemnation of all americans. The failure of the incoming President and Vice President to condemn, perhaps the outright encouragement even, has sowed the seeds of yesterday.

👏 👏 Amen

[catmanjack]

But those riots fit their narrative perfectly.

[Catfan73]

Whatever you believe about what actually occurred during BLM protests or riots or whatever you want to call them has absolutely no bearing on what happened yesterday. This was an attempted coup on the United States ordered by the sitting president. In what way could anything that happened in Portland or wherever make that acceptable? There is no justification. Period.

[ukpumacat]

Yeah. If you defend Kenosha, Minneapolis and Portland, Atlanta suburb violent riots but are all unglued about the Capitol riot then you have no ethics, just ideology.

So let me be clear; violent riots are wrong, can’t be condoned, and require a forceful, even violent response by government. That does not mean shooting looters, but the catch and release system sends a message of lawlessness. We had a lawless summer and fall. I am bot surprised that we have sown the seeds of violent riot and yesterday we reaped the whirlwind.

That's a fair point. They are not equal events (as none are) but I do get the larger point of how police deal with out of control situations. I will be honest and say that I don't know how they should be handled. This summer, if looters had of been shot, it likely would have escalated the riots and looting and made the situation worse.
Likely, that would have been the same yesterday (although I have no way of knowing). In retrospect, the situation yesterday could have escalated even greater as well. So, I don't know the "right" way for law enforcement to handle it.
That comparison only works on how police react to large mobs. Beyond that, we should stop using the comparison because the point of yesterday was far greater, grander and scarier.

As for yesterday, there was a dereliction of duty somewhere along the way not being prepared for that crowd. I do not know who dropped the ball (whether it was the Capitol police, city, federal government, etc). I watched a video of how it all started (will post elsewhere) and they were simply unprepared for a mob that had just been fired up by their leader. And all of that was very predictable. No one would have likely been shot if they were more prepared with tactics to hold that crowd back. If it wasn't Trump's crowd, I suspect that would have been done.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

any defense of what happened in Minneapolis, Kenosha, Portland, et al is a losing proposition. It is anti american and requires the condemnation of all americans. The failure of the incoming President and Vice President to condemn, perhaps the outright encouragement even, has sowed the seeds of yesterday.

I am taking a brief pause from my retirement from this board because I just cannot stay silent any longer relating to this..

First, I have to applaud your courage for actually expressing your opinions during this time. It seems like the folks that were SO vocal about their outrage from anthem kneelings, BLM and social justice movements are completely silent on these events. One can draw conclusions from their silence anywhere from support to this being absolute disgust that they have no words, or anywhere in between. I have a strong feeling where they lie, but that is not for me to declare.

I just have to respond to points that you have made...

First, playing whataboutism is absolutely appalling. What happened during the summer was absolutely condemned by people on this board, our leaders, especially Joe Biden, the Democratic mayors of towns and so much else.

Second, a prime differentiator between what happened this summer and what happened yesterday is that is was encouraged and supported by the President of the United States, Senators and the former mayor of NY. NO politicians, well except for the same ones here, supported the violence and rioting of last summer.

Third, it was an attempted coup of our government and democracy centered on the MOST iconic symbol of those ideals. This wasn't a Wendy's.

Fourth, where was security? Perhaps the most secure public federal building, this coup was allowed to happen. We spend $745 billion on security and our Capitol fell in minutes. Safety aside, that is a HORRIBLE ROI on our investment. It's pretty clear (based on photos of security taken with the terrorists) that it was an inside job. Living outside of DC, talking to my colleagues this morning, I have heard multiple stories about having guns drawn for simple things such as sledding or throwing frisbee to close to the Capitol grounds.

Fifth, an obvious thing not being addressed, if these people sitting at Pelosi's desk and the Senate President's chair were non-white or non-Christian, they would be dead now and the country would be applauding.

Sixth, you have TOTALLY missed what Neil Young was singing about. He was NOT singing about insurgents, whack-jobs, enemies of the state being innocently mowed down. Bringing up those lyrics is about as crazy as Donald Trump playing Fortunate Son at his rallies or Guiliani playing Macho Man.

I'll stop there, but I could keep going on.

We are not a perfect nation, but anything short of full prosecution on everyone responsible from the top down, including law enforcement that allowed this to happen, will be a permanent stain on our nation's history.

We have been screaming at the top of our lungs for years that this is the threat we faced. Those that worked for Trump and were "disloyal" to him told us that this is what he had planned. We should not be surprised.

However, we should be surprised, saddened, stunned and outraged at anyone who is silent, passive or suggesting that anything of recent times is equal to what happened yesterday. I hold any of those folks complicit on the attack of our nation and ideals.

[ukpumacat]

Whatever you believe about what actually occurred during BLM protests or riots or whatever you want to call them has absolutely no bearing on what happened yesterday. This was an attempted coup on the United States ordered by the sitting president. In what way could anything that happened in Portland or wherever make that acceptable? There is no justification. Period.


Absolutely agree. Unfortunately, we live in a world (on both sides) where tit for tat comparisons is the way of the world (again, both sides do this).
On this thread only (because of the topic), I think its fair to ask (and even cite past examples) on how the police should handle these situations (many were in the same city). Beyond that, I think its a distraction and a sidestep to the major event that happened yesterday.

I mean, be honest, what else are Hannity, Ingraham and Tucker supposed to do? They can't just say, "well, we blew it the past 4 years when we supported that crazy clown every single day. And he just incited a riot on the National Capitol and an insurrection against our form of government."
I mean, I wish. But, they are lacky's that have profited off of Trump and his followers for years.

So, of course they are going to compare it to BLM. And of course they are going to start saying it was really Antifa (I don't know if they did this as I don't even know if they had a show last night with all of these events....but hold tight, they will. Its the MAGA playbook.).

[ukpumacat]

We have been screaming at the top of our lungs for years that this is the threat we faced. Those that worked for Trump and were "disloyal" to him told us that this is what he had planned. We should not be surprised.

However, we should be surprised, saddened, stunned and outraged at anyone who is silent, passive or suggesting that anything of recent times is equal to what happened yesterday. I hold any of those folks complicit on the attack of our nation and ideals.

Glad to see you back, even if its brief.

Wanted to just highlight this point above. The most dangerous part of the Trump/Maga movement has been Trump's ability to completely mow down those who actually had a spine. It was entirely like a cult leader (not "like").

For years, good people close to Trump have warned us this type of thing would happen. That Trump was an existential threat to our government. And for years, MAGA simply dismissed them and made them as traitors. I was amazed at the way some of them were talked about on this board. 4-6 years ago, some of these guys were worshipped on this very board. But now, they are the enemy.
The most dangerous ploy of the next several days and weeks will be for MAGA to downplay what happened yesterday.
"It was Antifa".
"It was just a protest".
"Its just Trump being Trump".

It was FAR more than all of that. It was an attack on our way of government and on democracy. And it should be called that. Many Republicans are thankfully doing that. Unfortunately, in the upside down MAGA world, those are now all the enemy. They aren't "patriots".

I keep thinking about Mitt Romney. That guy is a conservative at his very core (fiscally and socially). He has been for years and years. He isn't a part of the "swamp" any more than Trump is. He has been very successful in real life for years. He is terribly well respected in his state.
And because he had the gall a few years ago to tell us what he thought about Trump, he became a "loser".
He's a multi-millionaire flying in coach to DO THE RIGHT thing and certify the legal winner of the election. And he was being berated by a plane full of MAGA on their way to storm the Capitol.

THAT guy is a true patriot. And yet, in Trump world, he is the complete enemy. What a backwards world.

[kingcat]

So we are all on agreement that yesterday was an armed insurrection and an attack on our government? The disagreements here are not genuine I suspicion. But that can be easily remedied.

[ukpumacat]

So we are all on agreement that yesterday was an armed insurrection and an attack on our government? The disagreements here are not genuine I suspicion. But that can be easily remedied.

Yes. And more.

An armed insurrection and an attack on our government incited by the sitting President trying to overthrow the election in order to remain in power.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Puma, all good points about Romney. Did you see his floor speech last night? The fact that the applause came from Democrats and very few Republicans is a perfect sentiment to illustrate your point.

I go way back before Romney. It's an endless list that is growing leaps and bounds. I think about Rex Tillerson. I think about when he was first named SoS, my thought was how perfect; an oil man heading our state. Then I closely followed his confirmation hearing and I was impressed. I had a brief moment of thought about maybe Trump was actually capable of putting reasonable businessmen in charge of prime cabinet positions. That definitely did not turn out to be true with others, but when Tillerson was one of the first to recognize Trump for who he was, it should have been a red flag to many, but instead he just became one of the first "losers".

Even though so many Republicans were complicit in getting us to where we are now, I cannot do anything at this moment but applaud what they are doing today. There will be time for judgments later, but those Republicans now calling to invoke the 25th Amendment should be praised. My gosh, Trump has even lost Bill Barr.

[Catfan73]

THAT guy is a true patriot. And yet, in Trump world, he is the complete enemy. What a backwards world.

Crazy.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

So we are all on agreement that yesterday was an armed insurrection and an attack on our government? The disagreements here are not genuine I suspicion. But that can be easily remedied.

I think it's clear who is in agreement.

I'm not so sure about the rest.

As I pointed out, the silence among the crew that was the most outspoken about social justice issues, BLM, and the rest, I suspect do not agree. I won't put any words into their mouths, but void of such a declaration of agreement, we are free to assume.

[bigsky]

Any defense of what happened yesterday is a losing proposition. It was an anti American action that requires the condemnation of Americans. And the nations leaders and its huge majority agree. any defense of what happened in Minneapolis, Kenosha, Portland, et al is a losing proposition. It is anti american and requires the condemnation of all americans. The failure of the incoming President and Vice President to condemn, perhaps that they engaged in outright encouragement even, has sowed the seeds of yesterday.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

any defense of what happened in Minneapolis, Kenosha, Portland, et al is a losing proposition. It is anti american and requires the condemnation of all americans. The failure of the incoming President and Vice President to condemn, perhaps that they engaged in outright encouragement even, has sowed the seeds of yesterday.

Just because you repeat it over and over again doesn't make it accurate.

The incoming President and VP condemned over and over again the violence that happened in these cities.

What you are doing is trying to rationalize a terroristic insurgence and attack on our nation and Democracy. That is appalling and disturbing to me.

The women that died did so as an enemy of state. Her family with have to live with those choices. We need to have an honest discussion on how she (and so many others) became so radicalized. There is absolutely no difference between them and Muslim extremists.

[ukpumacat]

And to be exact, 4 people died in yesterday's raid/coup attempt. 1 was shot, the other 3 from a myriad of causes.

[bigsky]

Yeah my first post got hung up on my phone and didnt appear to post the first time but you go ahead with your personal attack. Maybe add what your co- ideologist UKHistory said. Situation ethics isn’t ethics it’s ideology. He felt fine tell me “fuck you”. All I need to know about him and anything he has to say.

So I’ll say it again altho we know you didnt and wont, I opposed and oppose all the violent riots of the past year. I don’t think looters should be shot but they should not be “catch and released” either.

And no, there was no violent overthrow the way there was in Seattle, or else the capitol would be today a “free zone” free of government the way Seattle was. That was a violent overthrow of a government. It didn’t happen and as the left frequently points out no coup of a few guys with guns will stand up to tanks and planes.

[ukpumacat]

It didn’t happen and as the left frequently points out no coup of a few guys with guns will stand up to tanks and planes.

I know you weren't responding to me but there is one HUGE caveat to this point above (and btw, I hate posting on my phone).

When the sitting President is the one inciting the coup attempt, it becomes much more scary as he is the Commander in Chief and actually controls the tanks and planes.

This was/is the danger. It was thwarted. It will not happen. But, it certainly put chills into most Americans to watch what happened and think what "could be" or what "could have been".

Probably a bad idea to elect a Reality TV host who before he was ever elected in 2016 and before the election in 2020 told us he would never lose unless it was "rigged and stolen" and that his followers wouldn't leave him if he shot someone in broad daylight on 5th avenue. Maybe let's pass on that guy next time.

[ukpumacat]

This might be posted better in the "Law and Order" thread but since the discussion has gone here. A Retired Colonel on Parler is calling for "Patriots" to bring weapons to Washington DC for a war on January 19th:

9872

[ukpumacat]

"We will come in numbers that no standing army or police agency can match".

[bigsky]

So attacks on federal buildings should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The national guard should be called in when federal buildings are attacked. No matter where the federal building is, DC, or, for example, Oregon.

[ukpumacat]

So attacks on federal buildings should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The national guard should be called in when federal buildings are attacked. No matter where the federal building is, DC, or, for example, Oregon.

Uh, ya. Ha. You must have missed my many posts on this when it happened. I thought the "Sanctuary City" was crazy town that they let that happen.
How should they have handled it? I don't know. But I am not law enforcement. I have strong opinions about many things...but am willing to admit when I just don't know.
But again, that's a distraction to the coup attempt and current call for war happening right now and being incited by the President of the United States.

[bigsky]

The guy with the buffalo headdress and the dude on Pelosi’s chair pointing at his crotch, those are the perpetrators of the serious violent coup everyone is referring to?

[VirginiaCat]

Only once they saw they were tanking in the polls. And After they provided resources for the people arrested.

Those riots were unlawful and violent...and they started on the date of the innaguration in DC in 2016.

I am not sure about 200 people (out of how many that were in DC. (that is the apprx number) that went into the Capital counts as a terrorist insurgence. But that is a definitional differnce. What I do know is from friends in DC that were at the march, they were unaware of the issue until they saw it on social media or received calls from friends. So if all hundreds of thousand had committed the crime, I would agree with ou on the insurrection. But I think if that was th eplan they would have been armed because all I know have firearms.

BTW, not heard one complaint about an unarmed female civilian being shot. I am waiting to hear and understand what type of threat she posed and hopeful for video. But, bottom line, she should not have been there and paid the consequencs.

Stu, I do not want to make whatever mistake I made yesterdy again. I am not arguing with you in a violent manner or saying that in any way. I simply disagree with your positons. Still would love to have a beer with you and talk sports.



Just because you repeat it over and over again doesn't make it accurate.

The incoming President and VP condemned over and over again the violence that happened in these cities.

What you are doing is trying to rationalize a terroristic insurgence and attack on our nation and Democracy. That is appalling and disturbing to me.

The women that died did so as an enemy of state. Her family with have to live with those choices. We need to have an honest discussion on how she (and so many others) became so radicalized. There is absolutely no difference between them and Muslim extremists.

[VirginiaCat]

Yeah my first post got hung up on my phone and didnt appear to post the first time but you go ahead with your personal attack. Maybe add what your co- ideologist UKHistory said. Situation ethics isn’t ethics it’s ideology. He felt fine tell me “**** you”. All I need to know about him and anything he has to say.

So I’ll say it again altho we know you didnt and wont, I opposed and oppose all the violent riots of the past year. I don’t think looters should be shot but they should not be “catch and released” either.

And no, there was no violent overthrow the way there was in Seattle, or else the capitol would be today a “free zone” free of government the way Seattle was. That was a violent overthrow of a government. It didn’t happen and as the left frequently points out no coup of a few guys with guns will stand up to tanks and planes.

Welcome to the club. At least you are not a traitor...

[bigsky]

Grew up in Chesterfield county. So I am in that Virginia Cat club. Lots ofTimes-Dispatches with Kentucky articles.

I have mourned the woman killed, and nothing she or anyone did warranted being flock shot. The callous dismissal of her death is extraordinary, (everywhere, it isn‘t pointed here.)

I spent almost 30 years in politics and this past year has been the worst. Waters and Harris urging the rioters on. The media and social media’s campaign against republicans. The Richard Jewell line, “US Government and the media the two most powerful entities on earth” have burnt out my taste for public service.

But even with all that I would not submit to my baser nature on this board or anywhere.

[TRUCKERCATFAN]

Welcome to the club. At least you are not a traitor...

We definitely aren’t traitors. I got family in Leesburg VA. Aunt/Uncle and 91 year old grandmother who I adore lives there.

[ukpumacat]

BTW, not heard one complaint about an unarmed female civilian being shot. I am waiting to hear and understand what type of threat she posed and hopeful for video. But, bottom line, she should not have been there and paid the consequencs.



There is video but I am not going to post it. A guy with her yells, "Down, they have guns". And she jumps through the broken window.

This is in response to your post and Bigsky's about the people posing in the offices.

Yes, after the fact, they can look back and go....."Whew, that could have been much worse". They can think, "many of them just took selfies, etc.". But, even if that is what many did....it changes nothing as to what it all was (and even those two things are Federal crimes).
But this was a violent attack on the Capitol while the VP and entire Congress were inside.

I have posted many videos from yesterday in another thread. But stop focusing on some "cute" pictures and watch some of those videos.
This was VIOLENT and frightening.
Rioters had guns, bats, pepper spray, pipe bombs, etc. Many were not armed. But it doesn't matter.

Here is the video of how it started....you can see it escalate quickly:

https://twitter.com/PhilipinDC/status/1347028917685800961?s=20

And the next line of defense:

https://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1346891824603033602?s=20

More...

https://twitter.com/SunsaraTaylor/status/1346896839652601858?s=20

Once they got past those lines, it was breaking the windows to get in....

https://twitter.com/RealDonaldHumor/status/1346931216528797703?s=20


https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1346944954971557890?s=20

And then of course broke into the chambers themselves:

9873

9874

[ukpumacat]

The guy with the buffalo headdress and the dude on Pelosi’s chair pointing at his crotch, those are the perpetrators of the serious violent coup everyone is referring to?

Amongst many others, yes. This should not be downplayed in any way whatsoever. Watch the videos and see how violent and out of control it was. As I said earlier, its astonishing only 4 people died.

[ukpumacat]

The guy with the buffalo headdress and the dude on Pelosi’s chair pointing at his crotch, those are the perpetrators of the serious violent coup everyone is referring to?

A Capitol Police Officer has just died from the attack yesterday.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Amongst many others, yes. This should not be downplayed in any way whatsoever. Watch the videos and see how violent and out of control it was. As I said earlier, its astonishing only 4 people died.

Make that 5.

A Capitol Hill policeman has now died.

Besides these people being terrorists and traitors, they are now cop killers too.

[ukpumacat]

One Trump supporter arrested yesterday had 11 Molotov cocktail bombs on him:

https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1347278200884363266?s=20

[StuBleedsBlue2]

I have mourned the woman killed, and nothing she or anyone did warranted being flock shot. The callous dismissal of her death is extraordinary, (everywhere, it isn‘t pointed here.)



Mourning an insurgent against Democracy is completely mind boggling to me. She was a radicalized enemy of the state and was fully aware of her unlawful actions and the potential results of her decisions.

What is worth mourning is how millions and millions of people have been lied to, brainwashed and now only live in a radical world of conspiracy theories. These people are lost and that is extremely sad. It's time to heal as a nation and do what we can to rehabilitate.

I mourn her loss the same as I would the death of American Taliban, American Al Qaeda or any other enemy of state.

[bigsky]

do you have a link on the dead capitol policeman? also, a person was found with 11 molotov cocktails, did not find any report of his political affiliations, but I'm ready to read your link to that as well.

[bigsky]

CNN reporting a capitol policeman has died following events yesterday. Not sure what that means yet.

[kingcat]

do you have a link on the dead capitol policeman? also, a person was found with 11 molotov cocktails, did not find any report of his political affiliations, but I'm ready to read your link to that as well.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/capitol-police-officer-dies-following-riot/ar-BB1cyZH5?ocid=uxbndlbing

"Details surrounding the officer's death, including his or her name, were not immediately available.

More than 50 officers were injured and 15 hospitalized in the standoff against supporters of President Trump, who breached the Capitol building in an attempt to stop Congress from certifying President-elect Joe Biden's election"


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-07/man-charged-in-pro-trump-riots-on-capitol-hill

https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/ksojp4/dc_riot_suspect_with_11_molotov_cocktails_among/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Likely with QAnon like the horned gentleman. I would doubt the proud dudes or what have you would get by with even getting it on the grounds as close as they were being watched.

[bigsky]

Didnt find any answers there but maybe my reading comprehension is poor.

[bigsky]

Horned shirtless guy a Trump supporter

https://fox8-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/fox8.com/news/horned-shirtless-man-at-the-capitol-protest-identified/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D&fbclid=IwAR1PZxTOBHzaz2WXEUcbD2by2GFutb1d-3apHbuCsCRpZYYb3vylJv6QeNQ#aoh=16100655420845&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Ffox8.com%2Fnews%2Fhorned-shirtless-man-at-the-capitol-protest-identified%2F

[ukpumacat]

Just gonna be honest but I’m not really gonna debate about five people who died.
I feel for all of them and their families.

I’ve read articles on police finding the Molotov cocktails, several other pipe bombs, a truck with guns and ammunition and pipe bomb materials in it. I’ve seen the posts and videos for weeks now of the Proud Boys and other Trump supporters saying they were showing up on the 6th for war. This was all predictable.
I’ve seen and watched countless videos of the entire thing. I watched as Trumps supporters screamed and ranted and tweeted and did Facebook live and Instagram videos while breaking in. I saw them with bats and spraying pepper spray at cops and fighting with railing and poles and knives. I watched the video of the young woman get shot as they tried breaking through the Capitol doors. And I saw a police officer (not sure if it’s the dead one) get trampled by a railing and then hundreds
of people as they rushed through. I saw all of it with my own eyes. And it’s all there for anyone else to see who wants to.

I also watched the President for months add fuel to the fire and incite them. And I watched the speeches that day inciting them to “fight” and go to “combat”.

I don’t need to keep posting link after link with pictures and videos and articles. It’s obvious what happened. It’s obvious why it happened. And it’s obvious who could have prevented it from happening. To me and most other Americans including many of Trumps party who have said so publicly.

It was an awful day for our country. For those in the building. For democracy. And for those who died as a result.

[kingcat]

Didnt find any answers there but maybe my reading comprehension is poor.

I thought you wanted a link about the officer dying. Thats all the information they have given to date as far as I know.

The other link was just about who I figured would be most likely to get something like that on the grounds. It wouldn't be someone who said Hey, Im going to leave this here rally and take those old cocktails in the trunk over to the capitol". Nor a proud boy or the like who were certainly being watched all week long.

The other, well documented crazies who like to bring big boy toys to pizza parlors and the like are the QAnon whacks who think an alien from the future is guiding them. They have been planning on participating in this kind of stuff for the last four years. The most likely culprits imo.

Yeah, the horned shirtless guy is like a QAnon celebrity. The “QAnon Shaman,”

[bigsky]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/benjamin-philips-kevin-greeson-rosanne-boyland-were-the-three-others-who-died-during-the-capitol-riot. This is a good link to information about the four other deaths.

[kingcat]

Here's a quote about the guys arrest with the cocktails..I guess my QAnon theory is shot. It seems the man has no online presence.

A 70-year old Alabama man was arrested yesterday near the U.S. Capitol as rioting broke out amid the certification of Joe Biden’s presidential win.

Capitol police on Thursday released the names of 14 people charged with a variety of crimes in relation to the chaos in Washington on Wednesday.

They identified the Alabama man as Lonnie Zoffman of Falkville.

However, officials at the D.C. Central Lockup said Lonnie Coffman is being held there. He is 70. The lockup did not provide an address for Coffman.


Coffman is charged with carrying a pistol without a license, which is a felony crime in D.C., as well as unregistered firearm and unregistered ammunition. Additional details surrounding his arrest have not been released.

Coffman lists an address in Eva which is in Morgan County, and formerly lived in Cullman County.

Coffman’s ex-wife said he is a big Trump supporter, but said she was not aware of his arrest and declined to comment further about him.

Efforts to reach some of Coffman’s children for comment weren’t immediately successful.

Coffman has no prior arrests in Alabama and does not appear to have any social media presence. Law enforcement officials in Cullman County and Morgan County said they have had no known dealings with him.

The arrest was first reported by The New York Times which said the man, arrested by federal authorities, was in possession of a firearm and materials to make several Molotov cocktails.

Rioters swarmed the Capitol yesterday causing evacuations and lockdowns as protesters made their way through the building.

https://www.al.com/news/2021/01/70-year-old-alabama-man-arrested-near-capitol-with-gun-molotov-cocktail-material.html

[bigsky]

"Coffman is charged with carrying a pistol without a license, which is a felony crime in D.C., as well as unregistered firearm and unregistered ammunition." Never heard of such a thing in the United States of America. In Montana you have the right to bear arms in your defense or in the defense of your home. Open carry is legal except on campuses and in government buildings and in bars. I see pistols on hips all the time. At some point this spring, I believe these exceptions will disappear. There is no requirement to register firearms or ammunition? what, register ammunition? and you can buy .270 or 30.06 hunting shells at most big gas stations during hunting season, like a day old hot dog rolling on greasy steel ...it's almost as if DC is some other country. They should never become a state.

[bigsky]

and thanks for the link. He got arrested for exercising his right to bear arms. Sheesh.

[VirginiaCat]

[a coup by at most 200 people mostly unarmed? Just not seeing that as any type of real threat

QUOTE=Catfan73;676518]Whatever you believe about what actually occurred during BLM protests or riots or whatever you want to call them has absolutely no bearing on what happened yesterday. This was an attempted coup on the United States ordered by the sitting president. In what way could anything that happened in Portland or wherever make that acceptable? There is no justification. Period.[/QUOTE]

[bigsky]

The issue of course is that a woman was shot dead by Capitol police. The death or serious injury of the capitol policeman too. I hope the FBI finds whoever hit him with a pipe and accuses him of every single thing they can. As should be done in any violent riot.

[kingcat]

any defense of what happened in Minneapolis, Kenosha, Portland, et al is a losing proposition. It is anti american and requires the condemnation of all americans. The failure of the incoming President and Vice President to condemn, perhaps that they engaged in outright encouragement even, has sowed the seeds of yesterday.

A very bitter post, in which you are trying to deflect. I'm not angry over it however because I understand the untenable position it has put many trump supporters in. Let me just say as I always have..violence and criminal activity on the streets is wrong. And organized protests are good and helped form this republic.

Yes, I still supported peaceful protests, but readily condemned the bad actors on both sides. Wrong is wrong. So I won't bite.
Then again, I will say I support peaceful protests that are pro Trump too. I may question their motivation and sanity however. ;)

But more to the point, you know good and well what the difference is Sky'. And I assure you I do understand the awkward position trump put even his staunchest defenders in with his actions and inactions in this situation. Heck, how do we think Pence and others feel after what happened...it was an unprecedented attack; directly on our nations government.

Domestic terrorism, where the folly of a president and his crew of doom, led fired up innocents and others to a pre planned attack on our nations government to legitimize the traitorous effort..but it backfired. Don't blame Democrats, your friends, people of color, or past conversations for that. Blame the madman who tried to orchestrate this coup, imo.

He is just what many of us said all along...and proved it.

Dangerous.

P.S. i broke a rule in not directly addressing a person and only addressing the post. But you were cleverly questioning me and i made an exception.
Mainly because I feel we are old friends and I should be able to do so. Maybe I aint' often right...but I am this time.

[bigsky]

Yeah, yesterdy's capitol thing was quickly over. Any changes because of it will likely be further tyranny from media and democrats. How many days of violent riots is this for Portland? The violent riots in Kenosha, Minneapolis, Atlanta suburbs, Portland, don't seem to be about "Trump" as an active overthrow of the country. In Seattle, they did overthrow the city and state governments, creating a new government free zone. I don't support "Trump". I actively oppose where the democrat policies and attitudes are taking this country, and have for many years. The mostly peaceful moniker applied to 200 days or nights of violence of anti american movements like antifa and blm certainly applied yesterday, ironically, of course, it applied to none. A riot is a riot, no matter how it starts out. Yesterday, 200 days of Portland and all the other cities, all violent riots.

Nothing I saw yesterday was a coup that came close to what has happened in the past year with riots, violence, rhetoric and of course, the unconstitutional and unaccountable election processes in some democrat controlled states. I hear it in almost every bit of rhetoric from the democrats the rejection of the constitution, the precepts upon which this country was founded, the enlightened Greek/Roman/Christian/Anglo Saxon western civilization. In a couple of years, four at the outside, I have become convinced that the democrats are bent on the destruction of this country. I don't think they even hide it anymore. Pelosi is just a looter. I voted for McCain, twice. I doubt you did. I voted for Romney. I doubt you did. The differences in the policies endorsed by these men and yours are gigantic, far wider than between them and Trump.

[kingcat]

Yeah, yesterdy's capitol thing was quickly over. Any changes because of it will likely be further tyranny from media and democrats. How many days of violent riots is this for Portland? The violent riots in Kenosha, Minneapolis, Atlanta suburbs, Portland, don't seem to be about "Trump" as an active overthrow of the country. In Seattle, they did overthrow the city and state governments, creating a new government free zone. I don't support "Trump". I actively oppose where the democrat policies and attitudes are taking this country, and have for many years. The mostly peaceful moniker applied to 200 days or nights of violence of anti american movements like antifa and blm certainly applied yesterday, ironically, of course, it applied to none. A riot is a riot, no matter how it starts out. Yesterday, 200 days of Portland and all the other cities, all violent riots.

Nothing I saw yesterday was a coup that came close to what has happened in the past year with riots, violence, rhetoric and of course, the unconstitutional and unaccountable election processes in some democrat controlled states. I hear it in almost every bit of rhetoric from the democrats the rejection of the constitution, the precepts upon which this country was founded, the enlightened Greek/Roman/Christian/Anglo Saxon western civilization. In a couple of years, four at the outside, I have become convinced that the democrats are bent on the destruction of this country. I don't think they even hide it anymore. Pelosi is just a looter. I voted for McCain, twice. I doubt you did. I voted for Romney. I doubt you did. The differences in the policies endorsed by these men and yours are gigantic, far wider than between them and Trump.

I didnt vote for McCain, but we'd all be wise to adhere to the advice he left behind. It can be read in my signature which has been there since his death. I came to really like him because of his bipartisan attitudes and ability to reach across the isle. He and our new president were the closest of friends by the way. How is that possible?

And as for Senator Romney. Yours was a righteous vote imo.
I just chose otherwise.
Hear his words..

"We gather today due to a selfish man's injured pride and the outrage of his supporters whom he has deliberately misinformed for the past two months and stirred to action this very morning. What happened here today was an insurrection, incited by the President of the United States,"

"Those who choose to continue to support his dangerous gambit by objecting to the results of a legitimate, democratic election will forever be seen as being complicit in an unprecedented attack against our democracy.

They will be remembered for their role in this shameful episode in American history. That will be their legacy".

Your argument and disgust is not with me.

[bigsky]

It used to be the republicans that would tell me off on the political boards. (not just here, other KY boards too.) I have always tried to be a centrist. "Radical centrist" "bleeding heart republican" are two of the commonly used descriptors. I used to be a member of the ACLU. None of that applies any more as woke-ism, attacks on "the canon" of western civilization, identity politics, the welfare entitlement, the embracing of antifa and the avowed and acknowledged marxist BLM, the rejection of individual rights of free speech and free exercise and conscience and right to bear arms, the disappearance due process, the emergence of George Soros' attacks on america, the constantly expressed hatred of middle america, the control of politics by big tech an big media, the willingness of democrats to do the little election sins, like offering inducements to vote, electioneering in polling places, and geographic voter fraud, I could go on and on. There was a time when progressive politics meant increasing equality and protecting individual rights. Now it is hastening the idea of "equity" and the idea that no person should be allowed to succeed. Kurt Vonnegut's Diana Moon Glampers will rule a weak and pathetic country ripe for a takeover by a dictatorial government coming in under the guise of "promoting equity". Trump was a terrible would be populist tyrant. The next one will be better...

[VirginiaCat]

Fully agree. Still waiting to hear how I single unarmed woman climbing through a window was a deadly threat to anyone in the building.

[VirginiaCat]

RINO Romney Will be one of the first victims in two years I believe. He will be primary and in his own state and be told to go back to Massachusetts for maybe is considered a conservative

[Darryl]

It used to be the republicans that would tell me off on the political boards. (not just here, other KY boards too.) I have always tried to be a centrist. "Radical centrist" "bleeding heart republican" are two of the commonly used descriptors. I used to be a member of the ACLU. None of that applies any more as woke-ism, attacks on "the canon" of western civilization, identity politics, the welfare entitlement, the embracing of antifa and the avowed and acknowledged marxist BLM, the rejection of individual rights of free speech and free exercise and conscience and right to bear arms, the disappearance due process, the emergence of George Soros' attacks on america, the constantly expressed hatred of middle america, the control of politics by big tech an big media, the willingness of democrats to do the little election sins, like offering inducements to vote, electioneering in polling places, and geographic voter fraud, I could go on and on. There was a time when progressive politics meant increasing equality and protecting individual rights. Now it is hastening the idea of "equity" and the idea that no person should be allowed to succeed. Kurt Vonnegut's Diana Moon Glampers will rule a weak and pathetic country ripe for a takeover by a dictatorial government coming in under the guise of "promoting equity". Trump was a terrible would be populist tyrant. The next one will be better...

You are becoming my hero....

Darryl

[Darryl]

RINO Romney Will be one of the first victims in two years I believe. He will be primary and in his own state and be told to go back to Massachusetts for maybe is considered a conservative

Don’t you just love how the liberals love them some Romney?

Darryl

[VirginiaCat]

Don’t you just love how the liberals love them some Romney?

Darryl

He has always been a DEM in Sheeps GOP clothing. He is a globalist, period. He is about Global economy, not US Economy or US Jobs and US citizen well being. I despise the man and have for years.

[ukpumacat]

RINO Romney Will be one of the first victims in two years I believe. He will be primary and in his own state and be told to go back to Massachusetts for maybe is considered a conservative

I’m pretty sure his seat isn’t up until 2024. Senators serve a 6 year term (something we often forget). Pretty sure he was elected in 2018.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

I’m pretty sure his seat isn’t up until 2024. Senators serve a 6 year term (something we often forget). Pretty sure he was elected in 2018.

You are correct.

My prediction, especially in Utah (a reminder that Evan McMullin, a never-Trumper, received over 20% of the Presidential vote in 2016) and prefers moderate Republicans, is that Romney will hold the Senate seat for as long as he wants it and will not be primaried. I think he will run for President again in 2024, and it may be THE perfect time for him to do so.

As a progressive, I have my issues with Romney, but I admire him standing up to authoritianism and what has evolved as the Republican party.

[Catfan73]

Romney is immensely popular in Utah. Mormons are a different breed of Republican. Well, different than Republican now. More old school.

[ukpumacat]

Fwiw, More and more info is going to come out in the weeks and months ahead on this. And its going to get worse. I would be careful downplaying it as people there to take selfies.

I saw several reporters say rioters TOLD THEM they were looking for VP Pence to "hang him from the Capitol steps for treason". And before you think they would never tell a reporter that, watch the dozens of videos where they tell a camera they are committing a federal crime.
https://twitter.com/jimbourg/status/1347559078831284227?s=20

Some pics showing this was an attempted coup:

9876

Fwiw, those are flex cuffs....not zip ties. He also has a gun and likely pepper spray in a pouch. Here is a breakdown of what he was wearing:

9879

Another man with flex cuffs. He has been identified. He is ex-military and a retired officer (and avid Trump supporter).

9877

He went to Speaker Pelosi's office (I suspect not for a selfie):

9878

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Romney is immensely popular in Utah. Mormons are a different breed of Republican. Well, different than Republican now. More old school.

Also, as Salt Lake City (a progressive city) and Provo starts to expand, the lack of appetite for MAGA and Trump will continue to diminish. When its a binomial choice between such Republicans and a Democrat, we all know how that is going to go, but from a primary perspective, forget about it. Moderate Republicans will win.

[ukpumacat]

Here are snapshots of these plans being discussed on what is considered the Trump "dark web". Also includes maps of The Capitol tunnels:

9880

9881

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Fwiw, More and more info is going to come out in the weeks and months ahead on this. And its going to get worse. I would be careful downplaying it as people there to take selfies.

I saw several reporters say rioters TOLD THEM they were looking for VP Pence to "hang him from the Capitol steps for treason". And before you think they would never tell a reporter that, watch the dozens of videos where they tell a camera they are committing a federal crime.
https://twitter.com/jimbourg/status/1347559078831284227?s=20

Some pics showing this was an attempted coup:

9876

Fwiw, those are flex cuffs....not zip ties. He also has a gun and likely pepper spray in a pouch. Here is a breakdown of what he was wearing:

9879

Another man with flex cuffs. He has been identified. He is ex-military and a retired officer (and avid Trump supporter).

9877

He went to Speaker Pelosi's office (I suspect not for a selfie):

9878

These people are not very smart. They have left a trail of evidence through social media (which they are all in a hurry to scrub, but luckily, don't understand technology). Oddly enough, some of the folks that have been identified and arrested are lawyers, CEO's and not just your average Chewbacca or obvious white nationalist.

You are right. The next few weeks and months are going to be interesting, and I think will expose DEEP terror plots that include people in government and law enforcement sworn to protect us. We've heard for 4+ years about the deep state. What I have learned in the last 4 years is that what they accuse is what they do.

If everyone is not held accountable, American Democracy is fragile.

[ukpumacat]

More in military gear coming through another entrance:

9882

9883

Not that it matters, but I have another pic of that man with a hoodie. He has a "Camp Auschwitz" shirt on underneath which he revealed later.

Sorry, wrong guy. Here is that guy:

9884

[Catfan73]

It was without a doubt a planned, coordinated attack on our government. No doubt Trump didn’t do any of the actual planning but he was the commander, even watching the goings on while family members tweeted support.

The disingenuous comparisons of what happened Wednesday to protests in cities across the country don’t hold water and are almost laughable. When there are protests, there might be looters (and some were proven to be false flag). When there are hurricanes there might be looters. When basketball fans burn a couch there might be looters. Looters are not protesters, hurricanes, or basketball fans, they are looters. The people at the Capitol weren’t looters either. They were insurrectionists.

[ukpumacat]

Others with those same flex ties:

9885

This one is a woman, also likely ex-military:

9886

9887

[ukpumacat]

It was without a doubt a planned, coordinated attack on our government. No doubt Trump didn’t do any of the actual planning but he was the commander, even watching the goings on while family members tweeted support.

The disingenuous comparisons of what happened Wednesday to protests in cities across the country doesn’t hold water and are almost laughable. When there are protests, there might be looters (and some were proven to be false flag). When there are hurricanes there might be looters. When basketball fans burn a couch there might be looters. Looters are not protesters, hurricanes, or basketball fans, they are looters. The people at the Capitol weren’t looters either. They were insurrectionists.

I am not going to post all of the screenshots I have from that Trump website where they discuss much of these plans. I will simply tell you that they feel without a doubt that he was telling them to do this. I am not saying he was....but they all believed he was 100%.
They also posted about that this was a Civil War and they knew they would be pardoned if caught.

[ukpumacat]

Others with those same flex ties:

9885

This one is a woman, also likely ex-military:

9886

9887

Here is where she entered (under the grandstands prepared for the inauguration):

9889

9890

[bigsky]

Also, as Salt Lake City (a progressive city) and Provo starts to expand, the lack of appetite for MAGA and Trump will continue to diminish. When its a binomial choice between such Republicans and a Democrat, we all know how that is going to go, but from a primary perspective, forget about it. Moderate Republicans will win.
St George and Park City are changing the demographic as well.

[ukpumacat]

9891

[StuBleedsBlue2]

It was without a doubt a planned, coordinated attack on our government. No doubt Trump didn’t do any of the actual planning but he was the commander, even watching the goings on while family members tweeted support.

The disingenuous comparisons of what happened Wednesday to protests in cities across the country don’t hold water and are almost laughable. When there are protests, there might be looters (and some were proven to be false flag). When there are hurricanes there might be looters. When basketball fans burn a couch there might be looters. Looters are not protesters, hurricanes, or basketball fans, they are looters. The people at the Capitol weren’t looters either. They were insurrectionists.

Disagree.

It was his call to defend the Capitol, to call in the NG. He did not. Instead, he called for a march on the Capitol with strength. He said he would march with them, then took off in his limo and then gleefully watched it all (as captured by Don Jr's Tik Tok).

Not planning IS planning.


I saw this tweet a few minutes ago and based off the events of the week, is certainly worth debating.

More to come on Inauguration Day?
(https://twitter.com/CheriJacobus/status/1347590845986435076)

[ukpumacat]

They even drew up their own criminal complaint and posted copies so when they "Arrested" those they were looking for they could do it "lawfully" (containing likely the names of many of the Senators and VP Pence):

9894

9892

9893

I am not going to go through and match every first letter with a Senators name....but all you would expect are there.

[bigsky]

Obviously not MAGA, eh? No red hats, no lawn chairs. Also, still incapable of a “coup” which would be tanks and military hardware. The coup won’t come from the plastic handcuff equipped anti government group. It will come from inside.

So, not a coup, not MAGA. Not a group that supports any president or government (When I was a tax collector I knew plenty of relatively infamous anti government types—the Montana Freemen). I agree these are the bad guys, the Timothy McVeigh guys. I doubt they voted for anyone on the ballot. Is this your justification for the unarmed not militarized gay veteran being shot?

As you say, many will be found and held accountable. The Montana fremen went to prison.

No people who attacked the federal buildings, or the other govenment buildings, or private property, burning, looting and stomping, similarly dressed (you can lean from the professionals in antifa) seem to have suffered the same fate. The tacit approval of violence this past year sent a clear example and clear message.

[bigsky]

I can’t post pics anymore—but here’s a lesson from my past:”In the blink of an eye, with the stroke of a few computer keys...armed and trained men in small groups would walk out of homes and jobs and create chaos unprecedented in the civilized world”. Real places and real local govt officials were pre-targeted, selected to be shot or put in concentration camps.

From FBI informants inside the movement.

I’m not shocked that these groups infiltrated. I am shocked they had not been infiltrated and information gathered to see this coming. I don’t lump them in with MAGA.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Obviously not MAGA, eh? No red hats, no lawn chairs. Also, still incapable of a “coup” which would be tanks and military hardware. The coup won’t come from the plastic handcuff equipped anti government group. It will come from inside.

So, not a coup, not MAGA. Not a group that supports any president or government (When I was a tax collector I knew plenty of relatively infamous anti government types—the Montana Freemen). I agree these are the bad guys, the Timothy McVeigh guys. I doubt they voted for anyone on the ballot. Is this your justification for the unarmed not militarized gay veteran being shot?

As you say, many will be found and held accountable. The Montana fremen went to prison.

No people who attacked the federal buildings, or the other govenment buildings, or private property, burning, looting and stomping, similarly dressed (you can lean from the professionals in antifa) seem to have suffered the same fate. The tacit approval of violence this past year sent a clear example and clear message.


It's this casual mindset, 'they're not us', 'they didn't vote' is a major problem. This IS Trump's base. They absolutely voted. They tell you that this is because they think their votes were stolen.

Also, we are going to learn that it WAS an inside job that goes all the way up to Trump by not only deciding NOT to send the NG upon request, but also (along with Rudy, Mo Brooks, Don Jr, et al) stoking the flames and starting the march on the Capitol. There were Capitol police allowing people in and taking selfies.

You can continue to deny, deny, deny and focus on what happened last summer. That's OK. For the last 4+ years, I have chosen to listen to the people that worked for him and that know him best and EVERYTHING they have said have come to reality.

We can longer look at these folks as the fringe. We MUST listen to every word they say and take it seriously. The DOJ's recent commitment to spare no resource to uncover the plots and keep us safe is a good start.

[ukpumacat]

I don’t lump them in with MAGA.

And you couldn't be more wrong. Many of them have already been identified on the internet including one of the guys above. His Facebook page (which has now been taken down) was MAGA post after MAGA post.

The guy with all of the tactical gear has "mostly" been identified (I say mostly because he fully covered his face)....but people on the internet are very good. I don't want to falsely accuse someone so I will just say this. He is likely wearing the hat of a company he co-owns. Same brand Kyle Rittenhouse wore when he was released from prison. He/the company is MAGA through and through. Doesn't take 10 seconds to watch their social media stuff. He also flashes white power signs in many of his pictures.

The internet has hundreds of these people identified from video. All of them are MAGA.

Now, does that mean every MAGA was there to do this? Absolutely not. Many probably had no clue and were just riled up and caught in the chaos of it all.

But it is frankly alarming that numerous trained, ex-military Trump supporters broke into the Capitol with a clear plan to kidnap some of our most important heads of state to stop the certification of the vote and people still want to defend and speak so callously about it all.

[ukpumacat]

Many on the internet believe this man was the coordinator. They believe they have identified him as well. He's on video from the night before saying they were going into the Capitol. There is your red Trump hat.

9895

And what are you talking about? Several of the pics I posted above were people in Trump or MAGA gear.

The scariest part about all of this is the open and public nature they did this. None of them fear being arrested whatsoever. Almost every one of them videoed the entire thing. Most of those pics above they have outward facing iPhones and GoPro's on. Many were on Facebook Live, etc saying they were doing this. ALL of them believe they would be pardoned or never arrested.

[ukpumacat]

I saw this tweet a few minutes ago and based off the events of the week, is certainly worth debating.

More to come on Inauguration Day?
(https://twitter.com/CheriJacobus/status/1347590845986435076)

Exactly. That is why they are continuing to secure the Capitol area etc.

[Catfan73]

MAGA the last 2 weeks: HEY GANG LETS CARPOOL TO BERLIN TO BURN DOWN THE REICHSTAG

MAGA Wednesday morning: CHECK OUT MY SELFIE ON WAY TO BURN DOWN THE REICHSTAG

MAGA later Wednesday morning: ME, BURNING DOWN THE REICHSTAG

MAGA Wednesday night: ANTIFA BURNED DOWN THE REICHSTAG

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Many on the internet believe this man was the coordinator. They believe they have identified him as well. He's on video from the night before saying they were going into the Capitol. There is your red Trump hat.

9895

And what are you talking about? Several of the pics I posted above were people in Trump or MAGA gear.

The scariest part about all of this is the open and public nature they did this. None of them fear being arrested whatsoever. Almost every one of them videoed the entire thing. Most of those pics above they have outward facing iPhones and GoPro's on. Many were on Facebook Live, etc saying they were doing this. ALL of them believe they would be pardoned or never arrested.

Was it that, or that they really thought they would be successful?

Who was it again that told these people that you take it back through strength? I don't think any of these people thought that they were not going to win. Maybe some did and relied on a pardon or not getting arrested. It could be a strategy as to why people are not currently under arrest, and maybe that is a good strategy.

We know, though, that the President only cares about himself and would never even learn the names of these terrorists to even consider a pardon.

[VirginiaCat]

You guys and the media and current Dems in congress are blowing smoke.

Lets be VERY CLEAR. This was not a coup attempt by MAGA. If MAGA had wanted a real coup and a real fight the Hundreds of Thousands that attended would have shown up with their weapons (and Bed 95% own weapons and likely high capacity weapons) and frankly with that number, could not have been stopped short of a true military intervention. That is a coup.

a couple hundered individuals who coordinate on the dark web are not MAGA. They are the extreme. They are outliers. They are a threat to every administration. Just like the True extreme Antifa is. Just like the Black Panthers are.

But those groups are not even a 1% of our population and are no threat to an actual coup of this nation. The shame here, is how did these groups accomplish what they set out to do. It appears you guys were able to find posts on the interenet of intent and Capital Police were not prepared? Seriously? What message does this sent to islamic or other radicals from other nations? Look for an opportune time in a rally of any type in DC, have people there with hidden weapons infiltrate that rally and have a real weaponized assault ont he Capital. That is the message here. Not nutjobs without real weapons.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Exactly. That is why they are continuing to secure the Capitol area etc.

My wife is the District GM for Petco in the DMV and is responsible for the security and safety of her stores and employees in DC and surrounding areas. Needless to say, it is a stressful time for her. She is already starting to make plans for the inauguration and we are staying on top of every move made (or not made).

For swift and smart actions after the attack, she was recognized by the CEO in a message to all employees expressing safety, concern and support for anyone that needed it. Several MAGAt's replied all to the CEO with all of this "what about" crap and even defending the attack on the Capitol. Those people were immediately terminated.

The one thing that I am thankful for is how open these people are with their treason.

[ukpumacat]

9896

This guy in the MAGA hat has also been identified. Not only is he MAGA but he is likely going to be arrested for another crime. The beating of a black man in a parking garage (he had yet to be identified).

[StuBleedsBlue2]

You guys and the media and current Dems in congress are blowing smoke.

Lets be VERY CLEAR. This was not a coup attempt by MAGA. If MAGA had wanted a real coup and a real fight the Hundreds of Thousands that attended would have shown up with their weapons (and Bed 95% own weapons and likely high capacity weapons) and frankly with that number, could not have been stopped short of a true military intervention. That is a coup.

a couple hundered individuals who coordinate on the dark web are not MAGA. They are the extreme. They are outliers. They are a threat to every administration. Just like the True extreme Antifa is. Just like the Black Panthers are.

But those groups are not even a 1% of our population and are no threat to an actual coup of this nation. The shame here, is how did these groups accomplish what they set out to do. It appears you guys were able to find posts on the interenet of intent and Capital Police were not prepared? Seriously? What message does this sent to islamic or other radicals from other nations? Look for an opportune time in a rally of any type in DC, have people there with hidden weapons infiltrate that rally and have a real weaponized assault ont he Capital. That is the message here. Not nutjobs without real weapons.

You are so wrong.

Definition of a coup:

a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.


What happened at the Capitol absolutely fits that description. Maybe the sudden part may disqualify as it certainly seems to be well organized and premeditated.

What part of coup attempt doesn't quality?

Violence? People died

Illegal? Give me a break.

Maybe it's the MAGA part that you are in denial. Have you seen the photos and the people? They are ALL MAGAt's.

The one thing you are somewhat right about is that they are a threat to administrations. They are loyal to Trump. They do not believe in Democracy. They believe in absolute rule of Trump. It is NOT limited to a couple of hundred individuals. There were more than that that stormed the Capitol.

[bigsky]

You guys and the media and current Dems in congress are blowing smoke.

Lets be VERY CLEAR. This was not a coup attempt by MAGA. If MAGA had wanted a real coup and a real fight the Hundreds of Thousands that attended would have shown up with their weapons (and Bed 95% own weapons and likely high capacity weapons) and frankly with that number, could not have been stopped short of a true military intervention. That is a coup.

a couple hundered individuals who coordinate on the dark web are not MAGA. They are the extreme. They are outliers. They are a threat to every administration. Just like the True extreme Antifa is. Just like the Black Panthers are.

But those groups are not even a 1% of our population and are no threat to an actual coup of this nation. The shame here, is how did these groups accomplish what they set out to do. It appears you guys were able to find posts on the interenet of intent and Capital Police were not prepared? Seriously? What message does this sent to islamic or other radicals from other nations? Look for an opportune time in a rally of any type in DC, have people there with hidden weapons infiltrate that rally and have a real weaponized assault ont he Capital. That is the message here. Not nutjobs without real weapons.
I tried Virginia Cat. The attack on the capitol will be used to vilify 74 million americans as is happening here right now. I have more experience with these groups than anyone here and I might as well be whispering down a bottomless well at midnight.

[bigsky]

You guys and the media and current Dems in congress are blowing smoke.

Lets be VERY CLEAR. This was not a coup attempt by MAGA. If MAGA had wanted a real coup and a real fight the Hundreds of Thousands that attended would have shown up with their weapons (and Bed 95% own weapons and likely high capacity weapons) and frankly with that number, could not have been stopped short of a true military intervention. That is a coup.

a couple hundered individuals who coordinate on the dark web are not MAGA. They are the extreme. They are outliers. They are a threat to every administration. Just like the True extreme Antifa is. Just like the Black Panthers are.

But those groups are not even a 1% of our population and are no threat to an actual coup of this nation. The shame here, is how did these groups accomplish what they set out to do. It appears you guys were able to find posts on the interenet of intent and Capital Police were not prepared? Seriously? What message does this sent to islamic or other radicals from other nations? Look for an opportune time in a rally of any type in DC, have people there with hidden weapons infiltrate that rally and have a real weaponized assault ont he Capital. That is the message here. Not nutjobs without real weapons. not getting #mostlypeaceful now, out of the media, are we?

[ukpumacat]

Lets be VERY CLEAR. This was not a coup attempt by MAGA. If MAGA had wanted a real coup and a real fight the Hundreds of Thousands that attended would have shown up with their weapons (and Bed 95% own weapons and likely high capacity weapons) and frankly with that number, could not have been stopped short of a true military intervention. That is a coup.

a couple hundered individuals who coordinate on the dark web are not MAGA. They are the extreme. They are outliers. They are a threat to every administration. Just like the True extreme Antifa is. Just like the Black Panthers are.

But those groups are not even a 1% of our population and are no threat to an actual coup of this nation. The shame here, is how did these groups accomplish what they set out to do. It appears you guys were able to find posts on the interenet of intent and Capital Police were not prepared? Seriously? What message does this sent to islamic or other radicals from other nations? Look for an opportune time in a rally of any type in DC, have people there with hidden weapons infiltrate that rally and have a real weaponized assault ont he Capital. That is the message here. Not nutjobs without real weapons.

VC....just to be very clear....I (won't speak for others) know they are "outliers". I don't believe everyone there was there with weapons and a plan to attack the Capitol. Of course. I absolutely believe that the majority of the 74 million voters that voted for Trump had no interest or idea in storming the Capitol. No one here is saying that. Certainly not me. And I fully know that is not what any of my friends here are.

But the problem is that they are definitely MAGA. Wholeheartedly and fully.

As an example....the young woman who was shot. She was MAGA. I have read post after post from her (I think now taken down) social media. You can literally trace her journey.
She voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012. Literally. She then turned to Trump because she hated Hillary. But over the last couple of years she was indoctrinated by QAnon.
You can call that a "fringe" group....but you now have several QAnoners in Congress on the Republican side.

Her posts got darker and darker. She began to post about multiple Political figures being a part of the Hollywood/DC/Elite/Deep State child trafficking ring that Trump and MAGA were trying to defeat. She believed that.

And she posted this on the day before the Capitol rally and storming:

"Nothing will stop us....they can try and try and try but the storm is here and it is descending on DC in less than 24 hours....dark to light!"

And then she was shot as she tried climbing through a door to enter the House chamber next to armed men and women where House members were still inside.

Those are straight up QAnon phrases used all over the web (and one used by Trump and others but I digress).

The issue is that this stuff is infiltrating MAGA. It already has.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Puma, I was just coming back to talk about the lady that was killed.

You said it perfectly. That is what radicalization looks like.

Just as I said this, the news is coming across the Bigo, or whatever his name is, that was proudly sitting at Pelosi's desk has been arrested in Little Rock.

The news is also talking about the molotov cocktail MAGA't also had assault weapons and ingredients to make napalm.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Lindsey Graham is a traitor, according to these MAGAt's (https://twitter.com/dlippman/status/1347612365093826565).

[bigsky]

Only thing left to say in this conversation is “we told you Trump supporters were deplorable”.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

not getting #mostlypeaceful now, out of the media, are we?

No, we are not. Because it was not. It started off peaceful then the President encouraged strength and a march on the Capitol.

[bigsky]

That is exactly the way they all started all year. Then they curb stomped the business owner to death and burnt another guy up in his business,burnt down blocks of cities, etc. And then the media described them the next day, showing pictures of the 10 am rally, as "#mostlypeaceful". Good point, it doesn't matter how any of them started out, like the road paved with good intentions. They were not "mostly peaceful"

[ukpumacat]

Lindsey Graham is a traitor, according to these MAGAt's (https://twitter.com/dlippman/status/1347612365093826565).

Well, he's in a 6 year safe seat now. So, he could do what he felt was the "right" thing. I also don't think he has the same Presidential ambitions he used to.

[ukpumacat]

That is exactly the way they all started all year. Then they curb stomped the business owner to death and burnt another guy up in his business,burnt down blocks of cities, etc. And then the media described them the next day, showing pictures of the 10 am rally, as "#mostlypeaceful". Good point, it doesn't matter how any of them started out, like the road paved with good intentions. They were not "mostly peaceful"

Why are you talking about protests and looting in a thread about a woman who was killed in an attempted coup and kidnapping of our VP and Congressional leaders in an effort to overturn the election?
I am seriously confused.

It would be like if someone assassinated President Trump and the entire thread I just kept posting that the police should have taken their knee off of George Floyd.

I don't think any of the things you keep posting.

I don't think all Trump supporters are deplorable.
I don't think most MAGA wanted to raid the Capitol.
I don't think rioting and looting is ok (and do think it should be prosecuted).

Why do you keep saying stuff no one on here thinks except as a complete distraction to the awful events that happened on Wednesday?

[bigsky]

Because you keep making those points.

[ukpumacat]

Because you keep making those points.

Um, no...I don't. I just posted the exact opposite. I have been crystal clear what I think. Just because YOU keep saying it doesn't mean others think it.

[bigsky]

You just talked about how the Proud Boys and paramilitary anti government individuals are MAGA (the 74 million). They might have a red hat on. In addition the press is having a field day with it. You are furthering the meme, here. The violence of the past year gave the appearance that violence is acceptable and could be used. And it has been used with impunity as we have seen in the past year. Until people criticize their side for violence, and find it unacceptable, they are just part of the problem. Violence begats violence. The past year the violence has been a broken window. When someone breaks another, we can't be surprised.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

I can’t post pics anymore—but here’s a lesson from my past:”In the blink of an eye, with the stroke of a few computer keys...armed and trained men in small groups would walk out of homes and jobs and create chaos unprecedented in the civilized world”. Real places and real local govt officials were pre-targeted, selected to be shot or put in concentration camps.

From FBI informants inside the movement.

I’m not shocked that these groups infiltrated. I am shocked they had not been infiltrated and information gathered to see this coming. I don’t lump them in with MAGA.

Then you are wrong. Flat out wrong. They are the face of MAGA. You started this thread sympathizing with the young woman killed, who is a radicalized terrorist. Enemy of the state and now you and others are trying to distance yourself from them.

As Puma said, of course this isn't what 74 million Trump voters wanted or support, but it is WAY bigger than you think.





I tried Virginia Cat. The attack on the capitol will be used to vilify 74 million americans as is happening here right now. I have more experience with these groups than anyone here and I might as well be whispering down a bottomless well at midnight.

No, the attack on the Capitol is not going to be used to vilify 74 million Americans. It's going to be to address the enemies of state that not only carried out these actions, but support (and in my case, equivocate other acts of violence to) the actions that were committed, and may possibly happen next.

I am not going to broad stroke 74 million people. I will judge case by case and will probably do so with a different set of criteria that others will.

Right now, I just have pity for those that want to live in denial and ask what else is it going to take to realize what has happened as a result of the actions of this President.

[ukpumacat]

You just talked about how the Proud Boys and paramilitary anti government individuals are MAGA

I could not have been more clear (I thought). Forget the word MAGA, because I think we are just using the same Acronym differently.

The people who I posted about above are 100% Trump supporters (which I am using MAGA with interchangeably).
Not all Trump supporters (MAGA) are the people above. In fact, most are not imo.
Which I have posted about 7 times now. And only posted because you keep saying it.

[bigsky]

Hah. Stu helped my point.

[ukpumacat]

Hah. Stu helped my point.

Well, I've made mine and its clear for all to see. So, forgive me if I just keep posting about the purpose of this thread.

[bigsky]

This thread still contains posts justifying the shooting to death of an unarmed gay four tour veteran. (Did I check enough identity boxes or is “She wore a trump flag” the only one that counts?)

If you can’t see that the violence of the past year is what provided the opening for this violence we are not going to meet in the middle.

And it really is as simple as that. The past four years I’ve watched my country slip into violence and hatred justified from the left. I would have told you that the day before the Capitol riot just as I tell you now. Do you accept that or not? Without that common ground I don’t see what there is to talk about.

[ukpumacat]

I am posting this with reservation. I am 100% fine if a mod deletes it if needed.

But, here is the video of the moments leading up to (and the actual moment) the shooting of the woman this thread is about.

I posted earlier about her posts leading up to the riot. And its obvious what many in the Capitol were up to (the kidnapping and possible execution of our leaders on both sides of the aisle).

Fwiw, she was one of the ones just outside the door in this photo (and just trust me on this as I have watched the videos which maps out her route from the rally, to inside, etc). She was with the small group of armed insurgents. I have no way of knowing if she was with them purposefully or by chance. Neither did the Capitol police.
At this moment, there were many members of Congress still inside the Hall. The VP had been evacuated.

9898

Once they could not get in this door. They went around the side of the Hall. That is where the video picks up. You can see that members of Congress were just on the other side of the door. That is how close they came. Capitol police had barricaded the door and had guns drawn warning them for several minutes not to enter.

You can also see some Capitol police inside the door. And you can hear one of the insurgents plead with them to leave or they will get crushed. And they do. This is when the shooting happens as they break through the glass and she tries to climb through to where the members of Congress are. This is also why you see the tactical units coming up from the other side...because there were members of Congress inside that hall being evacuated.

Again, warning....graphic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/investigations/video-shows-moments-leading-up-to-fatal-capitol-shooting-on-jan-6/2021/01/08/b7bd8f45-1250-463e-b73f-d218b39e7ed0_video.html

[ukpumacat]

This thread still contains posts justifying the shooting to death of an unarmed gay four tour veteran. (Did I check enough identity boxes or is “She wore a trump flag” the only one that counts?)

If you can’t see that the violence of the past year is what provided the opening for this violence we are not going to meet in the middle.

And it really is as simple as that. The past four years I’ve watched my country slip into violence and hatred justified from the left. I would have told you that the day before the Capitol riot just as I tell you now. Do you accept that or not? Without that common ground I don’t see what there is to talk about.

OMG how many times do we have to say that all violence is wrong? I posted it many many times this summer.

And for clarity, are you referring to the woman as the "unarmed gay four tour veteran"?

She is not gay. She was married (to a husband). And she was with many other armed men with members of Congress just on the other side of the door.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Hah. Stu helped my point.

How did I prove your point?

I completely agree with Puma, with small difference, and that is I have a problem with people equivocating what happened in the summer to what happened this week and judge them, not equivalently as the people that stormed the Capitol, but enough to think that there is a problem in their thinking that is disturbing to me.

Which I have mentioned multiple times, so if you think I proved your point about villifying 74 million people, you are wrong about that too.

[kingcat]

I tried Virginia Cat. The attack on the capitol will be used to vilify 74 million americans as is happening here right now. I have more experience with these groups than anyone here and I might as well be whispering down a bottomless well at midnight.

I sometimes work with two avid Trump supporters and both were shocked and appalled. And they blamed Trump. Now, I might give you a few million who support the overthrow of our democratic election and still believe the disproven conspiracy theories. The rest just disapprove of the results. Everything changed yesterday.

The vote in the senate against any challenge is about where things generally stand percentage wise. And it’s shrinking. But a few million more or less who are today disillusioned and find themselves probably misaligned politically is bad enough. As an American I feel sorry for most...I fear the rest.

[ukpumacat]

And just want to be clear for the millionth time, most of this thread isn't about the majority of Trump supporters. Its not about anyone on this board. It isn't about most of the people who were in DC that day to "protest" or hear the President speak. It isn't about those that simply believe in small government and lower taxes.


Its about those that showed up to the Capitol with the intention of kidnapping and/or executing the Vice President of the United States and top members of Congress to stop the certification of the electoral votes in order to overthrow an election and the government. That actually happened.

Which is INSANE. And how close they came to actually pulling it off.

[bigsky]

Anytime you marginalize half your population that is something to be feared.

[ukpumacat]

Anytime you marginalize half your population that is something to be feared.

Ok.

This might have been posted before but the man who was arrested with the 11 Molotov cocktails was also found with an assault rifle, ammunition and cans of gasoline.

FBI is also concerned because many documents were stolen from offices and they are concerned of some of the national security issues related to some of the documents.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-supporter-arrested-at-capitol-had-11-molotov-cocktails-feds-2021-1

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Anytime you marginalize half your population that is something to be feared.

OK, how is this comment not meant to be interpreted as half of the population can justify the actions of 2 days ago due to marginalization?

It seems to me that you are goading us with your comments into equivocating all Trump supporters. I'm not falling for that crap.

We can see a difference between people that voted for Trump only because of a choice of two candidates, or believes in lower taxes or other typical conservative issues and those people that committed these treasonous acts. There is a path between those two end points and at least from my perspective, there are a lot of people moving closer to the latter, much like the woman that was killed, than you and others want to admit.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Ok.

This might have been posted before but the man who was arrested with the 11 Molotov cocktails was also found with an assault rifle, ammunition and cans of gasoline.

FBI is also concerned because many documents were stolen from offices and they are concerned of some of the national security issues related to some of the documents.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-supporter-arrested-at-capitol-had-11-molotov-cocktails-feds-2021-1

And ingredients for napalm...

[bigsky]

OMG how many times do we have to say that all violence is wrong? I posted it many many times this summer.

And for clarity, are you referring to the woman as the "unarmed gay four tour veteran"?

She is not gay. She was married (to a husband). And she was with many other armed men with members of Congress just on the other side of the door.

Well you are from there so you could easily have better info than I. I read a story about her girlfriend. There was a dispute. It’s in her story. Maybe they used “girlfriend” and “ joint property dispute” casually? She had kids too. Married people with kids could never be gay, I guess?

Anyway, she got shot and killed. Had that happened last summer night in Portland to a woman tossing a firebomb into the federal building the left would have been outraged and rioted all over the country. I am not seeing riots all over the country. No outraged Trump Deplorables burned down their block in Kansas or Montana.

The job is of the left and right radicals is done. We are more divided than ever, center to right more marginalized. And I retired from two decades of governing because the left will never give up until this country is hammered into bloody paste and every bit of american juice sucked dry.

And she is still shot dead by persons unknown. Still missing the “It’s just property” post. And nope a whitened sepulchre of american govt bones is not as valuable to me as the legal immigrant’s grocery store burned to the ground this summer. Symbol is not greater than the capitalism and investment and initiative it was meant to represent. That was looted by the Pelosis long ago.

[ukpumacat]

Well you are from there so you could easily have better info than I. I read a story about her girlfriend. There was a dispute. It’s in her story. Maybe they used “girlfriend” and “ joint property dispute” casually? She had kids too. Married people with kids could never be gay, I guess?

Anyway, she got shot and killed. Had that happened last summer night in Portland to a woman tossing a firebomb into the federal building the left would have been outraged and rioted all over the country. I am not seeing riots all over the country. No outraged Trump Deplorables burned down their block in Kansas or Montana.

The job is of the left and right radicals is done. We are more divided than ever, center to right more marginalized. And I retired from two decades of governing because the left will never give up until this country is hammered into bloody paste and every bit of american juice sucked dry.

And she is still shot dead by persons unknown. Still missing the “It’s just property” post. And nope a whitened sepulchre of american govt bones is not as valuable to me as the legal immigrant’s grocery store burned to the ground this summer. Symbol is not greater than the capitalism and investment and initiative it was meant to represent. That was looted by the Pelosis long ago.

You must be referring to this report? https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/ashli-babbitt-once-harassed-and-chased-husbands-ex/

She was in an argument with her husband's ex girlfriend. Again, she isn't gay. She is married. I listened to an interview with her husband where he said he begged her not to go because he knew something bad would happen.

Also, she was not shot by persons unknown. She was shot by an identified Capitol police officer while she was with armed men storming the Capitol with Congress on the other side of the door.

Finally, none of this reaction is about it being the "Capitol" (versus a grocery store). Its about that the building was filled with the Vice President and members of Congress who were attempting to be kidnapped and executed while trying to overthrow the government. That was their plan. They got within feet.

[ukpumacat]

I'm also super confused why there is so much more defending and questioning of the woman who was shot (which I have posted a ton of info on) and the Capitol police officer who was killed during the raid.

And why isn't the White House flag at half-mast today? The one at Congress is.

(these questions are not directed to anyone here...ha...I know none of you control the White House flag raising....just asking rhetorically).

[VirginiaCat]

And now more info starts to come out.

Video of Capital Police opening some doors to allow the people inside. I walk in, in a line, between the ropes. Oh, evidently there just happened to be some MSM photogs there too. I wondered why people staging a coup would be so orderly walking through Statutory Hall.

[VirginiaCat]

You are so wrong.

Definition of a coup:

a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.


What happened at the Capitol absolutely fits that description. Maybe the sudden part may disqualify as it certainly seems to be well organized and premeditated.

What part of coup attempt doesn't quality?

Violence? People died

Illegal? Give me a break.

Maybe it's the MAGA part that you are in denial. Have you seen the photos and the people? They are ALL MAGAt's.

The one thing you are somewhat right about is that they are a threat to administrations. They are loyal to Trump. They do not believe in Democracy. They believe in absolute rule of Trump. It is NOT limited to a couple of hundred individuals. There were more than that that stormed the Capitol.

You seem to be implying an interruption of congress is a seizure of power of government vs an interruption. Pretty big leak you got there. And if true, I think a lot of groups would have already made a coup agains the US Governement over the past 200 odd years. If our government can be taken over by 200 nutjobs (BTW, now seems to be less than 50 nutjobs and other people that though the police were letting them in... but I digress).

Premeditated by that group of under 50 people. Maybe. I do not even know how to access a dark web to see some of your evidence so cannot confirm or deny. But if our country and congress is at risk by 50 nut jobs, see my earlier post....be prepare when real radicals with real weapons show up.

If you guys on the left continue to push this narrative, it may get really ugly. Seriously. What you should fear is the other Hundreds of Thousands at that event, and the others in our communites in the country do feel cornered and feel helpless in loss of our government to the political elite and take action to end it. that could get bloody. Right now they are just pissed off. But not enough to take physical action. But that is on a tipping point in my opinion.

That is one reason I have gotten off all social media. This is the only place I am having any kind of debate. I will not post anywhere else right now.

[VirginiaCat]

VC....just to be very clear....I (won't speak for others) know they are "outliers". I don't believe everyone there was there with weapons and a plan to attack the Capitol. Of course. I absolutely believe that the majority of the 74 million voters that voted for Trump had no interest or idea in storming the Capitol. No one here is saying that. Certainly not me. And I fully know that is not what any of my friends here are.

But the problem is that they are definitely MAGA. Wholeheartedly and fully.

As an example....the young woman who was shot. She was MAGA. I have read post after post from her (I think now taken down) social media. You can literally trace her journey.
She voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012. Literally. She then turned to Trump because she hated Hillary. But over the last couple of years she was indoctrinated by QAnon.
You can call that a "fringe" group....but you now have several QAnoners in Congress on the Republican side.

Her posts got darker and darker. She began to post about multiple Political figures being a part of the Hollywood/DC/Elite/Deep State child trafficking ring that Trump and MAGA were trying to defeat. She believed that.

And she posted this on the day before the Capitol rally and storming:

"Nothing will stop us....they can try and try and try but the storm is here and it is descending on DC in less than 24 hours....dark to light!"

And then she was shot as she tried climbing through a door to enter the House chamber next to armed men and women where House members were still inside.

Those are straight up QAnon phrases used all over the web (and one used by Trump and others but I digress).

The issue is that this stuff is infiltrating MAGA. It already has.

Puma, do you believe in any case, that a statistically insignificant subset of any population should create the definition of the whole population? If so, then the whole Progressive Movement is anarchists and Antifa.

That is not how this works. And again, A coup has to have some chance of success, not a suicide misson. At best this was a terrorist act by about 50 nutjobs. I hope they all get tried for the crimes.

[VirginiaCat]

And just want to be clear for the millionth time, most of this thread isn't about the majority of Trump supporters. Its not about anyone on this board. It isn't about most of the people who were in DC that day to "protest" or hear the President speak. It isn't about those that simply believe in small government and lower taxes.


Its about those that showed up to the Capitol with the intention of kidnapping and/or executing the Vice President of the United States and top members of Congress to stop the certification of the electoral votes in order to overthrow an election and the government. That actually happened.

Which is INSANE. And how close they came to actually pulling it off.


This is a little different angle. first if that is correct about the VP, then hang the guilty that planned it and tried to execute. That is not MAGA.

As far as the Senators we are back to the crux of the problem. 61% of the country believes a fraud against their votes occurred.

What the Senators (Cruz et al.) were doing was trying to create a solution to give those voters at least a modicum of peace. Create an Electoral commision to do the investigation ..5 Senators, 5 Congressmen, and 5 SCOTUS. it was to be completed before Jan 20. If the Dems were sure no fraud or laws broken they should have taken the deal because it would have maybe cooled off some of the tempers and maybe solved some distrust. That chance is gone. Biden is now an illegitmate POTUS to at least half the country.

So, those Senators I believe were offering a solution that to me would have solved my distrust in these election results.

[VirginiaCat]

VC....just to be very clear....I (won't speak for others) know they are "outliers". I don't believe everyone there was there with weapons and a plan to attack the Capitol. Of course. I absolutely believe that the majority of the 74 million voters that voted for Trump had no interest or idea in storming the Capitol. No one here is saying that. Certainly not me. And I fully know that is not what any of my friends here are.

But the problem is that they are definitely MAGA. Wholeheartedly and fully.

As an example....the young woman who was shot. She was MAGA. I have read post after post from her (I think now taken down) social media. You can literally trace her journey.
She voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012. Literally. She then turned to Trump because she hated Hillary. But over the last couple of years she was indoctrinated by QAnon.
You can call that a "fringe" group....but you now have several QAnoners in Congress on the Republican side.

Her posts got darker and darker. She began to post about multiple Political figures being a part of the Hollywood/DC/Elite/Deep State child trafficking ring that Trump and MAGA were trying to defeat. She believed that.

And she posted this on the day before the Capitol rally and storming:

"Nothing will stop us....they can try and try and try but the storm is here and it is descending on DC in less than 24 hours....dark to light!"

And then she was shot as she tried climbing through a door to enter the House chamber next to armed men and women where House members were still inside.

Those are straight up QAnon phrases used all over the web (and one used by Trump and others but I digress).

The issue is that this stuff is infiltrating MAGA. It already has.

BTW, I think we will find that many of those 50 people were true die hard brainwashed Q-Anon.

My wife said she watched the video of the shooting and the woman did not appear to be the target of the shot and the video showed her clearly unarmed. My wife did not see anyone armed in the group. Does not matter, they were forcing their way into a locked and secure area.

I cannot seem to get any of the videos to work for me so have to rely on 2nd hand. Your video did not work for me either. guessing a security setting on this laptop fromwork.

[Catfan73]

61% of the country believes a fraud against their votes occurred.

Seriously? Do you mean maybe 61% of the people that voted for Trump?

[ukpumacat]

BTW, I think we will find that many of those 50 people were true die hard brainwashed Q-Anon.

My wife said she watched the video of the shooting and the woman did not appear to be the target of the shot and the video showed her clearly unarmed. My wife did not see anyone armed in the group. Does not matter, they were forcing their way into a locked and secure area.

I cannot seem to get any of the videos to work for me so have to rely on 2nd hand. Your video did not work for me either. guessing a security setting on this laptop fromwork.

Fwiw, she was def the target of the shot. Hard to explain in writing. But she was 10 feet away from where they were evacuating Congress. And she was the first to try and climb through. More would have been shot except they fled as soon as she was.

[Catonahottinroof]

Pretty sure the sourcing of that comment is from Rasmussen...and yes, 61% republicans... if I remember what I read correctly
61% of the country believes a fraud against their votes occurred.

Seriously? Do you mean maybe 61% of the people that voted for Trump?

[ukpumacat]

If you guys on the left continue to push this narrative, it may get really ugly. Seriously. What you should fear is the other Hundreds of Thousands at that event, and the others in our communites in the country do feel cornered and feel helpless in loss of our government to the political elite and take action to end it. that could get bloody. Right now they are just pissed off. But not enough to take physical action. But that is on a tipping point in my opinion.

That is one reason I have gotten off all social media. This is the only place I am having any kind of debate. I will not post anywhere else right now.

Oh, I think that will happen. And it won't be because anyone on the left "pushed a narrative".

I have very little doubt that there will be some form of a major violent confrontation in the next 4 years. There are a lot of armed people that are frustrated and filled with rage. And many of them feel like they are completely justified to resort to violence.

[ukpumacat]

And now more info starts to come out.

Video of Capital Police opening some doors to allow the people inside. I walk in, in a line, between the ropes. Oh, evidently there just happened to be some MSM photogs there too. I wondered why people staging a coup would be so orderly walking through Statutory Hall.

Yes. A lot more evidence that there were some Capitol Police that were at the very least sympathetic to the cause. This is what Stu and I were referring to earlier about "more coming out". And there will be more than just this imo.

[ukpumacat]

And ingredients for napalm...

So, how did police find the man who had the bombs and rifle in his truck? They didn't. He came to them.

They found his truck and had it towed to police headquarters. And he went to the police saying his truck had been stolen. Can't make it up.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

So, how did police find the man who had the bombs and rifle in his truck? They didn't. He came to them.

They found his truck and had it towed to police headquarters. And he went to the police saying his truck had been stolen. Can't make it up.

Wow. Didn't hear that part. That is amazing. At least they're making it easy for law enforcement.

[kingcat]

This is a little different angle. first if that is correct about the VP, then hang the guilty that planned it and tried to execute. That is not MAGA.

As far as the Senators we are back to the crux of the problem. 61% of the country believes a fraud against their votes occurred.

What the Senators (Cruz et al.) were doing was trying to create a solution to give those voters at least a modicum of peace. Create an Electoral commision to do the investigation ..5 Senators, 5 Congressmen, and 5 SCOTUS. it was to be completed before Jan 20. If the Dems were sure no fraud or laws broken they should have taken the deal because it would have maybe cooled off some of the tempers and maybe solved some distrust. That chance is gone. Biden is now an illegitmate POTUS to at least half the country.

So, those Senators I believe were offering a solution that to me would have solved my distrust in these election results.

I submit that it most certainly would not have. At least to nearly everyone but you my friend ;)
This will be my final post on the matter and i do mean it in a general sense and not directed at anyone here. Honestly, this is a pretty unique group overall.
But to everyone else out there, here goes.

Barr investigated and his results meant nothing. Why?
States investigated, and dedicated republicans tried to set the record strait.
Why the mistrust?
There's more...

The courts all said that any hint of proof was a literal joke..and the republican lawyers practically admitted the same in some instances,
and in some cases laughed and admitted it was non existent, but could have happened..
The Supreme Court of this country wanted no part of it.

And Trumps lawyers did not even attempt to take a case proving fraud there. Why? Because widespread fraud did not exist. Their case there was to disenfranchise voters and to fraudulently steal the election and rather than take the brunt of such malfeasance called in favors from Texas to do the dirty work. The fraud was that their own supporters would gladly accept it even if their mothers vote were tossed. "It was fraud wasn't it sir?" "Oh Yeah..Biggliest fraud ever..you know, they whispered in my ear, huge, bulging frauds, found in a grass sack, so the proof was rightn' there."]

Every rumor has been shot down without argument and every ridiculous curiosity clearly explained. Yet we just know it was fraudulent because..because..well, because trump couldn't lose. Stop, rinse, and repeat, over and over and over.

Trump followers will believe exactly what he tells them to believe and what suits the narrative he has provided.
It was never, we may win yet...it has been we will win. Think about that.

And think about finding him 11,000 plus votes somewhere to overturn Georgia, or else. So generally speaking, you cant expect me to believe they just needed to be put at ease that no one was trying to steal an election.
It's blatently true someone has been ….and it's been trump and his followers all along. And deep down they at least fear thats true. Well, it is.

Now, I am not saying all republicans, but the group, and a rather large group that do not care one iota about accepting facts...they know major fraud occurred because they believe Trump could never lose, and are shocked that he didn't change the world for them. You know, get a chance to lock Hillary up and all.

In truth many just want some alternate facts and juicy rumor that fits their real desire to install a one party led government with an authoritarian leader. They are programed to want the death of the Democratic party, and they need to feel powerful and in control to justify their rampant hate.
Those are the ones who's minds have been adjusted to think they are battling a huge radical left wing agenda in the media...all media that does not align with what they already believe watching their right wing op-ed guy or gal. (How simple is that), and more importantly in total denial that they are themselves relying on "alternate facts" and outright convenient lies to form the basis for their false illusions.
That by being themselves gently floated downstream so far right their perception of reality is skewed. And in some cases viciously so. And yeah, it works both ways at times....not at this time however.
This has led them to believe the overthrow of the government of the United States, and hatred of all that does not agree with their rigid, non inclusive view of society is an understandable thing, and (SHOCK ALERT) at the moment it was happening, even a good thing.

And that waving a flag when they act seditiously entitles them to wipe themselves on the Constitution and blot out the words "WE THE PEOPLE" and change it to..WE THAT MATTER"

Accommodating fringe groups who resort to some of the most outrageous beliefs in the civilized world. And when those groups start a rumor from their basements and post it on social media they are the very ones who help to incite insurrection and anti American views from average conservative folks who know no better than to believe the pretty packaged propaganda and lies. Some so naïve as to go to kill democratic pedos' in pizza parlor. And the republican party under trump has adopted that group as a huge part of their base while using a massive flow of misinformation and propaganda to sow distrust and develop a cult following opposed to the America we have always known. By using the dark web and hundreds of thousands of truth seekers with no other purpose than to surf. Deceive and deflect..deceive and deflect.
Almost as if the dispassionate realist Goebbels himself, observing with detached, professional expertise the effect of his own carefully rehearsed mob oratory were directing a next century repeat.

There are millions of good republican conservatives who want the best for everyone. And there are certainly good republicans in public service all over this country. Folks need to stop and think why those are the very ones you mistrust when they tell you..stop it..you lost this election

Then again, a huge percentage of avid trump supporters are at least partly at fault for the deaths and the great insult to our country we saw Wednesday. And until sanity returns and a belief in, and loyalty to our system of government returns freedom and self government I'd agree, are eventually lost. All the other stuff and peripheral worries this nation can contain and overcome. But the one thing that it cannot is being a house divided against itself.
If that persists, you and I both are the losers, and our children bare the results of that.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

That is not MAGA.

So, those Senators I believe were offering a solution that to me would have solved my distrust in these election results.

2 questions...

1) I keep hearing comments like “that is not MAGA”, then please explain exactly what MAGA is?

2) Why do we need a commission on election fraud when there was 60 different opportunities in court, appearing in front of Trump judges and a Trump SCOTUS, to present fraud cases? Isn’t it more just a case of sore losing? McConnell, Graham and other Republicans have accepted the results and Republican SoS have certified the results. We’ve already had the “commission” and people still can’t accept the results.

[Catonahottinroof]

You’ve hit the nail on the head, just as the prior 4 years of vitriol and goose chases were the same.
My fear is that this is the new normal. I sure hope not, but the precedent has been established.
2 questions...

1) I keep hearing comments like “that is not MAGA”, then please explain exactly what MAGA is?

2) Why do we need a commission on election fraud when there was 60 different opportunities in court, appearing in front of Trump judges and a Trump SCOTUS, to present fraud cases? Isn’t it more just a case of sore losing? McConnell, Graham and other Republicans have accepted the results and Republican SoS have certified the results. We’ve already had the “commission” and people still can’t accept the results.

[Catfan73]

https://projects.propublica.org/protest-police-videos/?fbclid=IwAR2JE0KyZQXsleA7feGdE9p80kQHMr0f2j3oHqmL LeZPJU50B3emZY7Ai4M

Since there’s lots of talk in this thread about violence in our cities this year I thought I would post this link even though it’s unrelated to Wednesday’s happenings. Peaceful protest is a guaranteed right under the First Amendment. Hopefully most of you will find these clips disturbing; if you don’t it might be time to think about how much of that Constitution thing you actually agree with.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Puma, do you believe in any case, that a statistically insignificant subset of any population should create the definition of the whole population? If so, then the whole Progressive Movement is anarchists and Antifa.

That is not how this works. And again, A coup has to have some chance of success, not a suicide misson. At best this was a terrorist act by about 50 nutjobs. I hope they all get tried for the crimes.

You are incorrect. Not in your description of this being a terrorist act. Not in using the term, nutjobs. You are incorrect in your number. It was thousands that stormed the capitol and according to this poll (https://www.newsweek.com/45-percent-republican-voters-support-storming-capitol-1559662), about another 30 million (extrapolated by the percentages and adjusting for a healthy MOE) that support their actions.

I was wrong in my assumptions too. I truly thought the insurrection and its support would be limited to a few million people.

Even if I was on the low end, that would be concerning, but thinking this is just a problem of 50 nutjobs is a massive, massive problem. Failure for any of us (and this is definitely a failure on my end) to recognize that the real number of people is probably greater than 30 million people shows just how close we actually are to losing our democracy.

We've already been shown this week how easy it is for enemies of state to take over what we thought was our most secure beacon of Democracy. Never did I think it would be so easy.

At this point, IMO, denial of the reality is pretty much supporting the reality.

[kingcat]

https://projects.propublica.org/protest-police-videos/?fbclid=IwAR2JE0KyZQXsleA7feGdE9p80kQHMr0f2j3oHqmL LeZPJU50B3emZY7Ai4M

Since there’s lots of talk in this thread about violence in our cities this year I thought I would post this link even though it’s unrelated to Wednesday’s happenings. Peaceful protest is a guaranteed right under the First Amendment. Hopefully most of you will find these clips disturbing; if you don’t it might be time to think about how much of that Constitution thing you actually agree with.

I'm sure there is a significant few who do not care. But what I fear is that our government has been put in a position in which they must deal with those who are a threat to democracy.
And that will include, as was mentioned, researching and labeling those citizens who promote and consider such violent actions as seditionists and criminals.

And there is a point slightly beyond that where legal action against any organized seditionists must be taken.

So it's not the armed actions of those people we need to fear, because they would find armed resistance on their own streets and neighborhoods, and from their own families in most cases.
But it is the actions being forced on our government to maintain order.

But no one should ever doubt the veracity with which Americans will defend freedom and democracy. Even against her own.
History proves that.

[TRUCKERCATFAN]

Really wish this sight had a block user feature.

[kingcat]

Really wish this sight had a block user feature.

I would hope that is not aimed at me Trucker. I am certain if taken correctly you would agree with everything in my post. I was only addressing the criminal groups involved and what they have brought on themselves such as the Proud Boys, QAnon and any hate groups.
We all stand united against attacks like that, and support the right to peacefully protest.

Those others have brought the wrath of the American people down on them. Not the republican party.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

https://projects.propublica.org/protest-police-videos/?fbclid=IwAR2JE0KyZQXsleA7feGdE9p80kQHMr0f2j3oHqmL LeZPJU50B3emZY7Ai4M

Since there’s lots of talk in this thread about violence in our cities this year I thought I would post this link even though it’s unrelated to Wednesday’s happenings. Peaceful protest is a guaranteed right under the First Amendment. Hopefully most of you will find these clips disturbing; if you don’t it might be time to think about how much of that Constitution thing you actually agree with.

That's really tough to watch. It brings back awful memories of the times that I was victimized by police and other people that I know who were too.

A lesson learned of this week is that when there is so much anger, respect for anyone goes out the door. People for cops, cops for people. This week showed that even the people that are supposed to be law enforcement, when angered enough, have no problem in killing one of them.

Our nation has to collectively look at what the root causes of all of this anger is. If we can't, we can't heal. We can't solve problems. We won't survive as a nation.

There is too much dismissiveness as to what happened this week and what to call it. Even if you put it aside, it's completely naive to assume that it can't happen again and actually work, no matter who is doing it.

Maybe that is the fate of our nation. I like to think that we are better than that; that we have evolved. I still have confidence that we can get past these times, but it just may be one other thing that I am wrong about.

[Catfan73]

Impeachment proceedings are set to begin Monday. Trump took some embers, kicked them around a little then threw gas on them and stood back and fanned the flames.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Impeachment proceedings are set to begin Monday. Trump took some embers, kicked them around a little then threw gas on them and stood back and fanned the flames.

Saw an interesting take that Impeachment is absolutely necessary to show the world that this is abnormal and must be punishable to show the world that we are indeed a nation of law and order no matter who the person is. We must do so to restore their confidence and trust that we are indeed law abiding.

An excellent point that I agree with and I think it could be a driving force behind some Republican decisions to not look the other way this time.

[Catfan73]

If nothing else he’s guilty of stochastic terrorism and is an existential threat to the U.S. If that’s not worthy of removal from office what is?

[TRUCKERCATFAN]

I would hope that is not aimed at me Trucker. I am certain if taken correctly you would agree with everything in my post. I was only addressing the criminal groups involved and what they have brought on themselves such as the Proud Boys, QAnon and any hate groups.
We all stand united against attacks like that, and support the right to peacefully protest.

Those others have brought the wrath of the American people down on them. Not the republican party.

Not aimed at you at all my friend. Our positions may be different but are conveyed with respect and not a condescending tone. You are cool in my book. Plus your tips have helped me with bar chords!

[ukpumacat]

This video is brutal.

A police officer is getting crushed by the Trump supporters as they yell, "Heave Ho" to smash their way in the door followed by them spraying pepper spray at the cops etc.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/video-shows-capitol-police-cop-getting-crushed-by-protesters/?utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

[kingcat]

Not aimed at you at all my friend. Our positions may be different but are conveyed with respect and not a condescending tone. You are cool in my book. Plus your tips have helped me with bar chords!

Haha I wish there was an easy answer for arthritis. That's becoming a problem for me too