Pardoned moi?

[Catfan73]

Trump is apparently thinking of announcing his 2024 campaign while Biden is being inaugurated. If he decides to pardon the kids and Jared and Rudy though how will that play out in the court of public perception? I’m not sure if it would really cost him many votes next time around but surely it wouldn’t gain him any either?

[Catfan73]

That was supposed to say pardonnez moi by the way. Anyway, Clinton will never live down his pardon of Mark Rich but it didn’t happen until his last day in office. Hannity and some others close to Trump are urging him to issue pardons before he goes—for what and if they’re necessary is another issue—but might he just do close family since he wants to run again? Might Rudy get left out in the cold? Or maybe he’ll just do several hundred on his last day like Clinton and Reagan and hope everyone forgets about it, however unlikely that seems.

[Doc]

Pardon Rudy, etc for what? None are accused of, being prosecuted or been convicted of any crime. What do they need pardoning for? Its not like they took money from China by selling access, or destroyed evidence.

[CitizenBBN]

Technically the POTUS can pardon people in advance of even being tried or charged or convicted, so it's possible, but not often done.

The best example is Ford issuing a pardon for Nixon to head off any investigation whatsoever. That cost him in the election too, but he did it to try to end things and move the nation forward. He let everyone else be tried and convicted iirc. Carter en masse pardoned Vietnam draft dodgers, many of whom then returned from Canada etc., though there they had technically broken the law but may not have been charged or tried yet.

So he could pardon someone in advance, but I think it would have to be for a particular crime even in that case. Nixon was pardoned for Watergate, but had he gone out and shot someone clearly that pardon wouldn't work.

Pardoning his family or Gulianai is first unnecessary, as they haven't even been investigated for any crimes, and second would have to be legally worded in such a way as to protect them in a number of circumstances.

I have no issue with him pardoning Flynn. That was a bogus "trumped up" charge from the start, with evidence now showing the FBI interviewed him with the intent to get him to lie just to charge him with lying, b/c they had no underlying charges to bring. When the government sets out to make a criminal of someone who isn't a criminal simply b/c they want to "get them" we should all be very afraid. Even then the field notes from the interview indicated they still didn't think Flynn "lied" to any degree worthy of prosecution, and the fact that he didnt lie to cover up any actual wrongdoing means there's no basis for the charge as well.

The whole thing was a joke, an exercise in government's power to squeeze people into confessions and pleas by pressuring them financially, threatening their family, etc. What was done to Flynn was no different than some fat county Sheriff coercing a confession from some poor guy in a crime he didn't commit by keeping him awake for 2 days and threatening him.

But pardoning Rudy or his family simply as protection against possible investigation would be more troubling, even though such investigation could be completely political, as was much of the Democratic House activity of the last 2 years.

[Catfan73]

I'm not saying whether these people need or are going to need pardoning for anything, but there are those close to Trump urging him to do this. My question is does it hurt him in the next election, assuming he's still healthy enough to run?

[ukpumacat]

Pardoning his family or Gulianai is first unnecessary, as they haven't even been investigated for any crimes, and second would have to be legally worded in such a way as to protect them in a number of circumstances.


That isn't true.

Rudy G has been under investigation for some time. So has Ivanka (albeit more indirectly by way of the Trump Foundation).

[ukpumacat]

I'm not saying whether these people need or are going to need pardoning for anything, but there are those close to Trump urging him to do this. My question is does it hurt him in the next election, assuming he's still healthy enough to run?

These days, it probably wouldn't hurt much honestly. His loyal followers will vote for him no matter what.

I came on to post a new thread about this, but I will say this here first. Trump running again in 2024 is a Dem's dream. He will go through a war in the primary (as will anyone who runs against him). And he will not win against an incumbent Biden. He had all of the benefits of being President and still lost. I really do not believe he will take back any of those independents.
Biden is going to win this by 7 million votes. For all of the fake hubbub after the fact...that's a big margin. Trump would need to get that down in the 2-3 million loss range to win electorally. And I just do not believe there are 5 million people who are going to vote for Trump the next time around that didn't this time.

[Catfan73]

I’m not sure he would even win the primary next time around. He’s already starting to fade away and once he’s out of office a lot of the current Republican officeholders, several of whom have their own White House aspirations, will no longer feel the need to kowtow to him. I’m not sure they will appreciate any negative light cast on the party either if wholesale pardons begin.

Angling for a preemptive pardon would go a long way toward explaining Rudy’s bumbling efforts of late though. It’ll be funny if Trump turns his back on him.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

That isn't true.

Rudy G has been under investigation for some time. So has Ivanka (albeit more indirectly by way of the Trump Foundation).

Correct, and there are investigations that we don’t even know about.

Don’t forget about Ivanka’s consulting fees as a salaried employee that was used as tax deductions.

Everyone involved in the Trump family business faces legal issues.

Trump isn’t doing what he’s doing because he believes there’s fraud, as indicated by the court records. He’s doing all of this to continue the grift , fight for his freedom and pay back hundreds of millions in loans coming due that he can’t pay.

[pdb]

“Don’t forget about Ivanka’s consulting fees as a salaried employee that was used as tax deductions.”

I don’t have enough information to understand what the tax issue is here. Consulting fees are taxable to the payee the same as wage compensation. The payor gets a tax deduction but the payee pays tax on the income.

Depending on the corporate structure and if Ivanka is a shareholder of the payor, the IRS could take the position that the payment is not “reasonable compensation” paid to the shareholder payee and treat the payment as a dividend rather than a consulting fee. The Trump payor company cannot deduct a dividend payment but Ivanka would have to pay tax on the income.

Maybe too much information?

[Catfan73]

Hey, Trump gets to transfer wealth to the kids, take a tax deduction, and avoid gift taxes. Sounds like a win-win-win lol.

[CitizenBBN]

lol. Mouthing about Trump's "corruption" from the left side of the aisle is hilarious when we just elected Biden and he just beat Hillary, arguably the most corrupt political family since Boss Tweed.

I'm sure Trump cuts corners, every rich guy does, but it's like comparing pot and heroin to compare Trump to Hillary or even To Biden. Maybe Biden is just meth.

I don't like the guy but let's be objective.

[Catfan73]

Apparently the White House is becoming quite polite. Word is there are people walking around constantly saying “Pardon Me”.

[DanISSELisdaman]

Lol!

[Basket Case]

Correct, and there are investigations that we don’t even know about.

it's interesting that you speak with such confidence about ongoing investigations that have yet to be spoken of.

[goodycat]

It's funny that we are talking about Trump pardoning himself or others when the real question is would Biden pardon his son. The news yesterday that Hunter Biden has been under investigation since 2018 for tax crimes related to taking money from Chinese sources is infinitely more substantial than any imagined crimes of the Trumps et al by the left. Add to that the growing scandal of democrat politicians being in bed (literally) with a Chinese spy (including the insufferable Eric Swalwell), I think democrats need to stop worrying about hypothetical imagined crimes by republicans and address the real crimes committed by their own.

[CitizenBBN]

it's interesting that you speak with such confidence about ongoing investigations that have yet to be spoken of.

He gets his info directly from Swallwell and Schiff, two of the most trustworthy guys in Washington.

As Goodycat pointed out, the McCarthyism of the last 4 years, which has produced exactly zero of the evidence they claimed to show Russian collusion, has been replaced now by the ACTUAL evidence of wrongdoing and foreign influence that has so far ensnared the Clinton's, Biden's family, Swallwell and others.