Hot water heater

[KentuckyWildcat]

Any experts or wisdom here?

It is electric and right at 10 years old. It was not heating quite as well as it used to. We intentionally keep it so it is not extremely hot so the girls do not burn themselves. So last week, I went down and turned the heat up just a little. Like I barely moved the thermostat. We did not notice anything for a week, then suddenly yesterday it was EXTREMELY hot.

Causes? Solutions?

I'm praying it will last until this summer. By then I will have a propane tank and will go a tankless hot water heater.

[CitizenBBN]

I had one do the same thing. I'm almost sure it was the internal thermostat. I think my bill from the plumber was $30 or $50, but I have a great plumber.

I thought it was an element going bad, but it was the thermostat. Not sure which part he replaced but it was cheap.

And yes I'd go with a tankless if it's an option. I really like mine. Only issue is that they take a minimum flow to turn on so you can't run them at just a trickle.

[dan_bgblue]

The thermostat that you adjusted, is it behind a cover plate on the side of the unit? How large a unit is it? 30, 40 50 gallons? I suspect that it is an electric unit as you said you were putting in a gas tank next summer, am i correct?

[kingcat]

I've replaced and repaired a bunch of them in my day. Every time I have messed with a thermostat control for that reason, I end up replacing the lower element. After ten years you have a lot of calcium in that tank and depending on the type heater you have, often the lower element gets covered by sediment and eventually fries itself. Before it does you will begin to lose heat. When it's partially covered you lose the element.

Replacing an element is not such a big deal. Draining the water heater can be. if i did not decide on replacing the heater itself, I'd bump that thermostat back to detent, drain the tank, and replace the element.

After shutting the power off naturally. :)

Or google/troubleshoot your model and go from there.

Note: I understand some newer models do not use a lower element. All I have had did.

The last time I drained a heater tank I hooked a water hose to the drain outlet on the heater tank near the bottom, ran it outside, and then opened the pop off valve at the top of the tank. I also put a few towels around because I always get water everywhere. Find the wires going into the element, remove them, remove the element, as much of the sediment as you can, and replace by reversing the procedure. (dont put the sediment back in though ;))

But last time I also forgot to close the pop off valve back so...dont forget that part

[KentuckyWildcat]

The thermostat that you adjusted, is it behind a cover plate on the side of the unit? How large a unit is it? 30, 40 50 gallons? I suspect that it is an electric unit as you said you were putting in a gas tank next summer, am i correct?Electric and 80 gallon tank. I have the two covers. Top and bottom behind a plate with insulation.

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[dan_bgblue]

kingcat has good info above and saves me the time of typing most of what I would have. I assume the heater has 2 thermostats and elements one at the bottom and one at the top. Which thermostat did you tinker with?

[BigBluePappy]

I've replaced and repaired a bunch of them in my day. Every time I have messed with a thermostat control for that reason, I end up replacing the lower element. After ten years you have a lot of calcium in that tank and depending on the type heater you have, often the lower element gets covered by sediment and eventually fries itself. Before it does you will begin to lose heat. When it's partially covered you lose the element.

Replacing an element is not such a big deal. Draining the water heater can be. if i did not decide on replacing the heater itself, I'd bump that thermostat back to detent, drain the tank, and replace the element.

After shutting the power off naturally. :)

Or google/troubleshoot your model and go from there.

Note: I understand some newer models do not use a lower element. All I have had did.

The last time I drained a heater tank I hooked a water hose to the drain outlet on the heater tank near the bottom, ran it outside, and then opened the pop off valve at the top of the tank. I also put a few towels around because I always get water everywhere. Find the wires going into the element, remove them, remove the element, and replace by reversing the procedure.

But last time I also forgot to close the pop off valve back so...dont forget that part

This^^^
When we were on well water down down in Nelsonville ( 30+ years ago), it would be (2) Elements and a thermostat at a cost of $50.00-$75.00 from Guy Mouser's in New Haven. Thermostat was only needed about every other time. Once we got hooked to city water it seemed to fix itself. Sediment can be a booger bear; and that was with whole house filters...

[KentuckyWildcat]

kingcat has good info above and saves me the time of typing most of what I would have. I assume the heater has 2 thermostats and elements one at the bottom and one at the top. Which thermostat did you tinker with?It has 2. I adjusted both equally.

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[dan_bgblue]

Do you have a voltage tester and a electrical continuity tester? If you have a continuity tester, then you will need to use it to determine if one or both elements have shorted out. To find that out, you will need to throw the breaker for the water heater to cut off the current. Expose the thermostats. Then take the leads for the continuity tester and touch one lead to the white wire side of the thermostat and the other lead needs to be put in contact with the side of the inner tank. If you get a reading on your meter, then that heating element is shorted out. If you do not get a reading then replace that cover and move on to the 2nd heating element and proceed as above.

Let us know what you find.

[KentuckyWildcat]

Do you have a voltage tester and a electrical continuity tester? If you have a continuity tester, then you will need to use it to determine if one or both elements have shorted out. To find that out, you will need to throw the breaker for the water heater to cut off the current. Expose the thermostats. Then take the leads for the continuity tester and touch one lead to the white wire side of the thermostat and the other lead needs to be put in contact with the side of the inner tank. If you get a reading on your meter, then that heating element is shorted out. If you do not get a reading then replace that cover and move on to the 2nd heating element and proceed as above.

Let us know what you find.I have some at work.

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[KentuckyWildcat]

I've replaced and repaired a bunch of them in my day. Every time I have messed with a thermostat control for that reason, I end up replacing the lower element. After ten years you have a lot of calcium in that tank and depending on the type heater you have, often the lower element gets covered by sediment and eventually fries itself. Before it does you will begin to lose heat. When it's partially covered you lose the element.

Replacing an element is not such a big deal. Draining the water heater can be. if i did not decide on replacing the heater itself, I'd bump that thermostat back to detent, drain the tank, and replace the element.

After shutting the power off naturally. :)

Or google/troubleshoot your model and go from there.

Note: I understand some newer models do not use a lower element. All I have had did.

The last time I drained a heater tank I hooked a water hose to the drain outlet on the heater tank near the bottom, ran it outside, and then opened the pop off valve at the top of the tank. I also put a few towels around because I always get water everywhere. Find the wires going into the element, remove them, remove the element, as much of the sediment as you can, and replace by reversing the procedure. (dont put the sediment back in though ;))

But last time I also forgot to close the pop off valve back so...dont forget that partThanks King

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[dan_bgblue]

I have some at work.

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If you do not want to cal Joe the plumber tonight, if I were you I would bring the voltage and continuity testers home tomorrow and we can analyze further. Oh yeah, I would start by checking the lower element.

[KentuckyWildcat]

If you do not want to cal Joe the plumber tonight, if I were you I would bring the voltage and continuity testers home tomorrow and we can analyze further. Oh yeah, I would start by checking the lower element.I will try to remember. But my memory is shorter than my little toe lol

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[kingcat]

I will try to remember. But my memory is shorter than my little toe lol

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Others may have found it different, but it's always been the bottom element for me, and usually due to the sediment. I've even found the lower one, brittle and broken into pieces before from laying in the junk.

But a pro would always test both like Dan says. I'd likely replace both anyway since the top should be easy enough, and hopefully you have basically a new water heater. And a valuable experience.

EDIT: After re reading your original post, your heater is working but the temp is abnormally hot? I misread and thought it had already burned out. Still..
Warming water sometimes causes the minerals to clump together, and they then settle to the bottom of the tank or coat the water heater elements. When the elements get coated, or when the lower element is buried under mineral sediment, it has to work harder to heat the water.

Then sometimes, the element overheats and the water absorbs this heat. The element typically fails and burns out not long after overheating.

So it should be the lower one

[BigBluePappy]

Just saying, if you take the trouble to drain the water heater, why not replace both while you are in there.
And you guys are correct, the bottom one is usually toast...

[kingcat]

Just saying, if you take the trouble to drain the water heater, why not replace both while you are in there.
And you guys are correct, the bottom one is usually toast...

Yep. They're not that expensive and they have to work their patoots off. And just a note, I've heard of them not being the same element before I believe. Top and bottom that is.

[BigBluePappy]

Yep. They're not that expensive and they have to work their patoots off. And just a note, I've heard of them not being the same element before I believe. Top and bottom that is.

For some models of water heater, you are correct sir. Different element top and bottom...

[KentuckyWildcat]

EDIT: After re reading your original post, your heater is working but the temp is abnormally hot? I misread and thought it had already burned out

Right. It had went from hot to warm. I slightly increased the temp and it did not change. Then about a week lately it was suddenly very hot.



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[dan_bgblue]

During the really hot water phase did the safety pop of valve "pop off"? It really sounds like just a thermostat. Depending on model you may be able to replace the thermostat and leave the heating element in place. I would like to know if the elements are sound before proceeding.

[KentuckyWildcat]

During the really hot water phase did the safety pop of valve "pop off"? It really sounds like just a thermostat. Depending on model you may be able to replace the thermostat and leave the heating element in place. I would like to know if the elements are sound before proceeding.I do not know about the pop off valve

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[KentuckyWildcat]

There is a reset button as well. At least on the top element.

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[Darrell KSR]

https://youtu.be/oa1ez7yL_T4

[CitizenBBN]

Mine had the same behavior. had to keep turning up thermostat, and sometimes it was still colder, then it got to where once in a blue moon it would be hot enough to make coffee.

I can ask my plumber, I think I had him replace the bottom element, but I think it was the thermostat. I need him to come by house on another matter, if I catch him quick I'll ask him.

[KentuckyWildcat]

Mine had the same behavior. had to keep turning up thermostat, and sometimes it was still colder, then it got to where once in a blue moon it would be hot enough to make coffee.

I can ask my plumber, I think I had him replace the bottom element, but I think it was the thermostat. I need him to come by house on another matter, if I catch him quick I'll ask him.Thank you

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[kingcat]

The water does get extremely hot when the lower element goes out if due to sediment build up. As a matter of fact that's still the likely cause.

" minerals to clump together, and they then settle to the bottom of the tank or coat the water heater elements. When the elements get coated, or when the lower element is buried under mineral sediment, it has to work harder to heat the water.

Then sometimes, the element overheats and the water absorbs this heat. The element typically fails and burns out not long after overheating"

The exact same thing happened to mine. A week or so after the overheating the lower element went out. And when I replaced the element it came out in pieces from staying hot so long. The thermostat didnt know about the sediment and just knew the water temp was low. So it decides to allow current to run more overheating the element buried in the sediment. It seemed strange to me too, but I found it out the hard way a few years ago. I assume the thermostat does not react as fast as the element over heats the water..but whatever, it does do that.

So since its ten years old, I'd say the culprit is likely the sediment and not the element itself (yet)..or the thermostat (could be) at this point.
..or third the pressure relief valve is shot. I do recall having to replace one once in the nineties, for whatever reason.

In that order imo.

[blueboss]

https://youtu.be/oa1ez7yL_T4

This^^^


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[KeithKSR]

Thermostat is the likely culprit. If it was a bad element it wouldn’t be getting hotter. A bad element doesn’t heat at all. With an ohmmeter and the power off there will be continuity between the two lugs on the element. If there is no continuity an element has an open circuit and is bad.

When I replaced my water heater a few years ago I installed 3/4” flex shark bite connectors. It makes the job much easier now, and in the future.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/SharkBite-18-in-L-1-2-in-Push-to-Connect-Inlet-x-3-4-in-Outlet-Braided-Stainless-Steel-Water-Heater-Connector/1000180847

[blueboss]

OT just a bit, but in the “call the man” department, I had a leaky outside spigot. I figured no big deal there is a shut off valve in front of it I’ll change it next spring.

So I turn the shut off valve off and the spigot is still dripping, so that means the shut off valve is leaking too. With winter coming on I didn’t want to take a chance with freezing the pipe up. Since I don’t have a lot of confidence in my soldering ability in an application that could cause a lot of problems if it were to fail I decided to “call the man”.

Luckily I’ve got a plumber that is the “I’ve got a guy” guy. He came over this (6:00pm) evening and put in a new frost proof spigot, shut off ball valve including the run of copper pipe needed, and put new washers in a dripping utility sink in my basement.

He finishes in less than an hour, I ask how much do you need for all the parts and labor... $100. I asked are you sure for parts and labor and the run, he goes oh yeah I forgot the ball valve, make it $120.

Frost proof spigot - $50
Brass ball valve - $20
Copper pipe - $15
Misc-MEP gas, solder, flux etc ???

If I’d done it myself it would have taken half a day, 4-5 trips to Ace hardware, $100 dollars worth of parts and some stuff I probably wouldn’t have needed. I’d been bleeding, burnt, bump on my head and torn shirt.

That’s why I “call the man”...


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[KentuckyWildcat]

Thermostat is the likely culprit. If it was a bad element it wouldn’t be getting hotter. A bad element doesn’t heat at all. With an ohmmeter and the power off there will be continuity between the two lugs on the element. If there is no continuity an element has an open circuit and is bad.

When I replaced my water heater a few years ago I installed 3/4” flex shark bite connectors. It makes the job much easier now, and in the future.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/SharkBite-18-in-L-1-2-in-Push-to-Connect-Inlet-x-3-4-in-Outlet-Braided-Stainless-Steel-Water-Heater-Connector/1000180847

Starting to think so. I've adjusted the temp the last two days. I've made very very very small adjustments. And it seems like I either have warm or HOT.

[KentuckyWildcat]

And of course, I forgot my voltage meter....

[dan_bgblue]

And of course, I forgot my voltage meter....

If you can purchase just the thermostats then I would do that without further testing. If you have to replace the thermostat and heating element both at the same tiime, then I would wait and test before draining the tank and replacing the element. jmho

[kingcat]

Good luck with it regardless.

From "the five reason your water heater overheats" (https://www.home-water-heater.com/water-heater-is-overheating.html#4)..

#2..Testing the heating element will show if it is shorting or not. A shorted element is one of the reasons for overheating.

That is a common problem with hard water.

[KeithKSR]

Starting to think so. I've adjusted the temp the last two days. I've made very very very small adjustments. And it seems like I either have warm or HOT.

Sounds like it may have a burned contact inside the thermostat. Are you adjusting both thermostats?

[dan_bgblue]

I hope this tale of woe had a happy ending.

[KentuckyWildcat]

I hope this tale of woe had a happy ending.Right now i have it back at warm. Going to cross my fingers it holds out until christmas break. Then I'll probably replace elements and thermostat.

Biggest issue right now is wife complaining the shower is not hot enough.

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[dan_bgblue]

Women. :533:

:sign0157:

[blueboss]

IIRC y...

Never mind


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[Darrell KSR]

Right now i have it back at warm. Going to cross my fingers it holds out until christmas break. Then I'll probably replace elements and thermostat.

Biggest issue right now is wife complaining the shower is not hot enough.

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Women. :533:

:sign0157:Replacing the element and thermostat is a lot cheaper than replacing the woman...

[KentuckyWildcat]

Well...took Darrell's advice and called the guy...took a shower this afternoon and it was COLD. So I guess it did not make it to Christmas break for me to fix it.

I went back and looked at it later, not sure why, just wanted to go look. I noticed one of the fuses was blown. Perhaps it has been flickering on and off the last few weeks causing my inconsistant temps? Probably not likey but maybe? Either way, I guess I'll let him come out since I'm cooking for the chruch the next few nights.

Note: it has fuses because of the distance from my breaker box.

[dan_bgblue]

Note: it has fuses because of the distance from my breaker box.

No offense intended. I have never heard anything like that. Do you mind explaining the reasoning behind that bit of info.

[kingcat]

I know water heaters use a thermal fuse, but never heard of an inline current fuse.
Perhaps just an added safety feature to prevent current brown outs or spikes when it initially comes on. Really, I just don't know, obviously. :)

[KentuckyWildcat]

No offense intended. I have never heard anything like that. Do you mind explaining the reasoning behind that bit of info.


I know water heaters use a thermal fuse, but never heard of an inline current fuse.
Perhaps just an added safety feature to prevent current brown outs or spikes when it initially comes on. Really, I just don't know, obviously. :)

I don't mind to explain, but I can't lol

I built in 2010. At that time, it was required for hot water heaters over a certain distance from the breaker panel. I do not know the distance required for this. But I do know my hot water heater is closer than my parents (built in 1985). I'd guess mine at 35 feet away so maybe 50 feet of wire? Obviously for safety, if anything shorts out, it should stop at the fuse and not go all the way back to the panel. Personally, I'd prefer a small breaker box, but I was not given that option even if it was an option.

[KentuckyWildcat]

I will add that our power service is horrible. It blinks all of the time. So it could be a local best practice?

[Darrell KSR]

I don't know a thing about electrical work, but that actually sounds like a really good idea.

[dan_bgblue]

I don't mind to explain, but I can't lol

I built in 2010. At that time, it was required for hot water heaters over a certain distance from the breaker panel. I do not know the distance required for this. But I do know my hot water heater is closer than my parents (built in 1985). I'd guess mine at 35 feet away so maybe 50 feet of wire? Obviously for safety, if anything shorts out, it should stop at the fuse and not go all the way back to the panel. Personally, I'd prefer a small breaker box, but I was not given that option even if it was an option.

That does make good sense and is a good safety feature, and like you having a small breaker panel would be more convenient than a fuse panel.

[CitizenBBN]

I don't mind to explain, but I can't lol

I built in 2010. At that time, it was required for hot water heaters over a certain distance from the breaker panel. I do not know the distance required for this. But I do know my hot water heater is closer than my parents (built in 1985). I'd guess mine at 35 feet away so maybe 50 feet of wire? Obviously for safety, if anything shorts out, it should stop at the fuse and not go all the way back to the panel. Personally, I'd prefer a small breaker box, but I was not given that option even if it was an option.

Not sure how it's that much safer solely due to distance. GFCI does that of course to prevent as much of the current from passing in a short as possible, bc there's a possibility it's passing through a person. I'm not aware of anything like that around here for something like a water heater. A local cutoff certainly, like any HVAC, and a local breaker for it sure, but requiring an actual fuse versus a breaker to me makes no sense.

HVAC has a breaker built into the unit now, and then often you'll have a local breaker which is really mostly for local cutoff for safety when servicing them more than the extra distance. I'm not sure why water heaters don't seem to have a built in breaker but fuse versus breaker has me confused.

Maybe it was an option and they didn't do it that way, maybe there's a reason. Mostly I'm just intrigued at this point.

[KeithKSR]

No offense intended. I have never heard anything like that. Do you mind explaining the reasoning behind that bit of info.

The feeder line to the fuse box probably has a higher capacity than the water heater requires. I did one like that. I ran a 50 amp line to a fuse box, then used 30 amp fuses for the hot water heater and 20 amp fuses for the well pump, it was in my in-law’s house. Later when rural water came through I replaced the 50 amp breaker with a 30 amp breaker and eliminated the fuse panel and the well pump. I used the fuse box because I had it on hand and the wife’s parents were on a fixed income.

[KeithKSR]

Not sure how it's that much safer solely due to distance. GFCI does that of course to prevent as much of the current from passing in a short as possible, bc there's a possibility it's passing through a person. I'm not aware of anything like that around here for something like a water heater. A local cutoff certainly, like any HVAC, and a local breaker for it sure, but requiring an actual fuse versus a breaker to me makes no sense.

HVAC has a breaker built into the unit now, and then often you'll have a local breaker which is really mostly for local cutoff for safety when servicing them more than the extra distance. I'm not sure why water heaters don't seem to have a built in breaker but fuse versus breaker has me confused.

Maybe it was an option and they didn't do it that way, maybe there's a reason. Mostly I'm just intrigued at this point.

The 2017 NEC required a disconnect within sight of a device like a water heater. There may have been a local code requiring it in KentuckyWildcat’s area in 2010. They likely used the fused disconnect instead of the breaker disconnect due to having one on hand.

[CitizenBBN]

The 2017 NEC required a disconnect within sight of a device like a water heater. There may have been a local code requiring it in KentuckyWildcat’s area in 2010. They likely used the fused disconnect instead of the breaker disconnect due to having one on hand.

I get having the local breaker box in that location. I don't know if it's due to distance so much as being able to quickly turn it off and also for verification during service. I didn't know they had applied it to hot water heaters.

As for the fuse box that's my guess as well. I don't know a reason to have fuses versus breakers.

I want to upgrade my breakers to the AFCI breakers. They're proud of those things though, and right now they aren't easily in stock.

[KeithKSR]

I get having the local breaker box in that location. I don't know if it's due to distance so much as being able to quickly turn it off and also for verification during service. I didn't know they had applied it to hot water heaters.

As for the fuse box that's my guess as well. I don't know a reason to have fuses versus breakers.

I want to upgrade my breakers to the AFCI breakers. They're proud of those things though, and right now they aren't easily in stock.

I probably could have used AFCI breakers last winter. I had a buss bar in my panel that was arcing out. At first it randomly caused the power to flash on and off, so we thought it was in the power coming in. Ultimately I had no power to one of the 120V buss bars a day or two later. I had an electrician come and look at it while I was at work, he found the problem and had an extra buss bar to replace it with. A $100 well spent.

[CitizenBBN]

I probably could have used AFCI breakers last winter. I had a buss bar in my panel that was arcing out. At first it randomly caused the power to flash on and off, so we thought it was in the power coming in. Ultimately I had no power to one of the 120V buss bars a day or two later. I had an electrician come and look at it while I was at work, he found the problem and had an extra buss bar to replace it with. A $100 well spent.

Yes that should have found it and tripped the breaker.

They run $30-$40 each right now. Spending $1,000ish on replacing good breakers seems like a lot. Not sure if that price will come down in the mid future.

[KentuckyWildcat]

Plumber said it shorted out and I was lucky it did not catch on fire. I assume the element since it was on the bottom. Hope to ask him more tomorrow.

So now to replace...I went with a propane tankless. $1300 ugh....but the real problem, I don't have a propane tank yet. I've called EVERYONE around and have found one I can buy. Now to weigh the option of buying vs leasing. And none of them can get it to me for 3 weeks. So I have brought mom's vertical tank over, hopefully I can get it installed and use that temporarily.

[KeithKSR]

Plumber said it shorted out and I was lucky it did not catch on fire. I assume the element since it was on the bottom. Hope to ask him more tomorrow.

So now to replace...I went with a propane tankless. $1300 ugh....but the real problem, I don't have a propane tank yet. I've called EVERYONE around and have found one I can buy. Now to weigh the option of buying vs leasing. And none of them can get it to me for 3 weeks. So I have brought mom's vertical tank over, hopefully I can get it installed and use that temporarily.

Elements don’t short out, they burn out and create an open circuit. I’ve seen thermostats short and melt some wires.

You’ll have to give us a review of 5he tankless heater after you begin using it. I’ve been wondering about how they would do in a whole house situation.

[kingcat]

Not to harp on it but elements do short out Keith, and then rather quickly lose all ability to pass current through the disintegrating rod usually caked with sediment.
Very, very common, while thermostats usually do not short, they just quit working. Whether from worn contacts, sensors, or what have you. I guess they can if the wires accidently touch.

I had it happen, and the water was near scalding for a day or two..then cold. The lower element looked like the one below only worse as mine actually came out in pieces from the continuous shorting out.

Again I offer this..

From "the five reason your water heater overheats" (https://www.home-water-heater.com/water-heater-is-overheating.html#4)..

#2..Testing the heating element will show if it is shorting or not. A shorted element is one of the reasons for overheating.

That is a common problem with hard water. Sediment is the culprit.

https://reusegrowenjoy.com/wp-content/uploads/DIY-Water-Heater-Repair-.jpg

this how mine came out..
https://www.heatrelieftoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/wh-ff-burned-heating-element.jpg

[kingcat]

Finally found what I wanted to find on it..Sediment causes this to happen.

http://waterheatertimer.org/images/Shorted-element2-600.jpg

Another explanation from an expert..

Most water supplies -- well water, rural water or city water -- have some dissolved minerals that are not removed during the purification process. Warming water sometimes causes the minerals to clump together, and they then settle to the bottom of the tank or coat the water heater elements. When the elements get coated, or when the lower element is buried under mineral sediment, it has to work harder to heat the water. Sometimes, the element overheats and the water absorbs this heat. The element typically fails and burns out not long after overheating. You can replace elements, and even clean out sediment.

And many thermostats do stick. But out of the seven or eight I've had to repair, all were the lower element. Some just quit, and a couple of times I had overheating problems that led to the elements demise. Sediment each of those times was the problem. 10 years is about the life of an element.
My first drummer and very good friend was a licensed plumber and I worked with him quite a lot as a young man. He advised me on the problem the first time as it seems our local water was notorious for it.
He is recently deceased.

[KentuckyWildcat]

You’ll have to give us a review of 5he tankless heater after you begin using it. I’ve been wondering about how they would do in a whole house situation.

My plumber claims this one will heat two houses. I'll let you know. Note that he does not sell the hot water heater so he does not have a reason to endorse it. I'll try to remember to post the model number.

[KentuckyWildcat]

I asked the plumber what shorted out. He said all of it lol

Said I was lucky. It even shorted out his tester

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[KeithKSR]

I asked the plumber what shorted out. He said all of it lol

Said I was lucky. It even shorted out his tester

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I shorted a meter once checking a water heater, the water heater was on a different circuit than my uncle thought it was and I started to check continuity on an element expecting there to be no juice on it.

[KentuckyWildcat]

I have hot water! Plumber got my tankless going today. I'm on a temporary tank until I get my big propane tank installed on the Dec 15 (hopefully).

He said he could not drain my tank because of too much sediment in the tank. So, I'm left to figure that out.

[dan_bgblue]

So, I'm left to figure that out

A little air pressure in the right places will do wonders.

I do mean a LITTLE air pressure, do not want to blow the top off your tank with 15 psi like I did to a 10,000 gallon tank once upon a time. Top of the tank sailed away for about 50 feet before crashing to the ground. Hot water tank pressure should withstand a couple hundred psi, but it does not take nearly that much pressure to force the water out of the tank.

Use the air pressure to force the water out the hole in the top of the tank.

[kingcat]

There should be a silver or brass colored drain cock at the bottom of the water heater tank with a threaded end. Hook a water hose to that and run it to a floor drain or, outside.

Open the pressure relief valve (T&P) Flip the lever into an up position. Completely drain the tank, which can be a slow process.

To flush the sediment, turn on the water supply inlet at the top of the tank for twenty seconds or so and let it stir up the sediment. Repeat the process a few times allowing it to drain. But..

On my heater I actually raked the solidified chunks of sediment out of the lower element base hole first. If you have as much in it as he claims it may be necessary. Then do the standard cold water flush to remove the rest.

This process needs to be done every couple of years regardless just to extend tank life. The stuff is really corrosive.

[KentuckyWildcat]

He tried to drain it, just didn't have any luck. Said I could try sticking something up the drain to loosen it. I think he was worn out and didn't want to mess it or with charge me for the time. He had worked all weekend.

[CitizenBBN]

A little air pressure in the right places will do wonders.

I do mean a LITTLE air pressure, do not want to blow the top off your tank with 15 psi like I did to a 10,000 gallon tank once upon a time. Top of the tank sailed away for about 50 feet before crashing to the ground. Hot water tank pressure should withstand a couple hundred psi, but it does not take nearly that much pressure to force the water out of the tank.

Use the air pressure to force the water out the hole in the top of the tank.

Mythbusters have blown up a bunch of them. I think they it about 340ish, but they go to a red zone I think at about 150psi.

I wouldn't push it though. When they do blow one up it goes through a 2 story house with ease.

[KeithKSR]

A little air pressure in the right places will do wonders.

I do mean a LITTLE air pressure, do not want to blow the top off your tank with 15 psi like I did to a 10,000 gallon tank once upon a time. Top of the tank sailed away for about 50 feet before crashing to the ground. Hot water tank pressure should withstand a couple hundred psi, but it does not take nearly that much pressure to force the water out of the tank.

Use the air pressure to force the water out the hole in the top of the tank.

Disconnect the water lines and it should keep pressure inside the tank from building much. I’d apply the pressure to the drain valve with an air compressor blow gun and give it short bursts to try to work the sediment loose.

I’ve got a couple like this one I use for stuff like that: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-7-Piece-Blow-Gun-Kit/3421414

You could also put a 3/4” hose bib on the hot water side and run a water hose to a drain, then apply air to the drain valve. Even applying some air to the cold water side may help drain some of the water.

When full the heater will have 320 lbs of water in it for a 40 gallon tank, so plan on an appliance cart to move it if you can’t drain it most of the way before moving it.

[KentuckyWildcat]

After reading Dan's and Citizen's post....I think you guys want me to shoot this thing through my roof lol

[KentuckyWildcat]

You’ll have to give us a review of 5he tankless heater after you begin using it. I’ve been wondering about how they would do in a whole house situation.

Zero complaints so far. Hard to tell in limited use but it does not seem to be using a lot of propane. Wife has taken showers while I was filling up the tub for the girls. Hot water kept up Just fine.

If I want to be overly critical and picky. And this could be my imagination. It might take just a moment longer to get hot water to the faucets. And the water pressure might briefly drop just a little at times when turning on another faucet.



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[CitizenBBN]

I have a tankless, have had it for about 15 years. To service the house I either had to do that or put in dual gas tanks (my basement can't get a single larger tank in it), so I went tankless.

I did wear out my first one, just replaced it with another maker. Not ideal, but 15 years or so on one? Maybe not horrible, and my area has very hard water so that may be part of it.

I love it overall. First the negatives:

1) All tankless have a threshold of water flow to kick on, so you can't just have a small trickle and have it heat. Bigger the unit often the bigger the minimum flow. I think my current one is like .5gpm (gallon per minute) or something similar, which is actually pretty low.

2) I do think there's a bit more delay to get the hot water going, and that's b/c it has to hit a flow rate, then kick on and start up. It's seconds, not minutes, but there is a bit more lag.

Now the positives:

1) It's ENDLESS. You can have hot water all you want.

2) It's efficient. You aren't heating water till you need hot water.

3) Saves space. Not a big one for me but that tankless is smaller than a tank for sure.


As for the negatives, they are minor compared to the positives.

Caveats:

1) I have only ever used this unit with one shower or bath at a time, maybe with laundry running. You can pick a unit based on capacity. Mine is rated for like 2.5 simultaneous showers, but I prefer to rate in gpm. that's actually harder to get info on with the new units as they don't like to market with actual facts. But mine is somewhere between 8 and 10 gpm based on my math, which should be more than sufficient to run two showers simultaneously (federal limit on a showerhead is 2.5gpm, though that is passed on fancy systems with multiple heads).

2) you need to clean them, by backflowing them once a year to flush stuff. At least on my new unit. Haven't done that yet, but I assume it's not a huge deal.

3) NOTE***** If your unit has an electrical starter for the gas tankless, and the power goes out, you have no hot water unless you have a battery on it or a battery backup, so plan for that for that 4 day ice storm power outage. Mine has a battery on it.

[CitizenBBN]

Zero complaints so far. Hard to tell in limited use but it does not seem to be using a lot of propane. Wife has taken showers while I was filling up the tub for the girls. Hot water kept up Just fine.

If I want to be overly critical and picky. And this could be my imagination. It might take just a moment longer to get hot water to the faucets. And the water pressure might briefly drop just a little at times when turning on another faucet.



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I think both of those things are true.

The delay is b/c the unit has to hit the minimum flow rate, which takes a few seconds on my to actually turn on once I hit the faucet. Then of course it has to heat up, though these things put out so many btus that's quick too. But there is a small delay versus having hot water right in the line.

Mine is gas fwiw. I know they have electric units, but I would think they would have more issues on delay and heating up fast.

[KentuckyWildcat]

2) you need to clean them, by backflowing them once a year to flush stuff. At least on my new unit. Haven't done that yet, but I assume it's not a huge deal.

3) NOTE***** If your unit has an electrical starter for the gas tankless, and the power goes out, you have no hot water unless you have a battery on it or a battery backup, so plan for that for that 4 day ice storm power outage. Mine has a battery on it.

2) Plumber said the buy the "kit" to flush it out. Makes it easier. I have not done that yet but will.

3) Good thought on the battery backup. Need to see what size UPS could handle that. I have a generator that will power the tankless one, but would be nice to not have to hook it up.

[CitizenBBN]

2) Plumber said the buy the "kit" to flush it out. Makes it easier. I have not done that yet but will.

3) Good thought on the battery backup. Need to see what size UPS could handle that. I have a generator that will power the tankless one, but would be nice to not have to hook it up.

I got the "kit" with mine on this new one, but my year isn't up yet. I'll have my "guy" come walk me through the first one probably. he's extremely reasonable on price, and lives on the next street over. Tough to beat.

I'm going to do the same thing and wire an UPS inline to the unit. Or at least unwire the hardwire and go with a plug so in a crisis I can plug it into an UPS. I haven't really fooled with it yet, I was busy when he installed it but we discussed the issue, but for winter I want to get it set up. Mine has a battery but I don't want to have that as my only option. I'm likely to not change it out and in 3 years need it and not have it.

I really want a whole house generator but that will have to wait unless one comes free.

[KentuckyWildcat]

I really want a whole house generator but that will have to wait unless one comes free.

Same!

Thinking about just getting my house wired to plug in my portable for the short term. Maybe a whole house later in life when I am less able to get out and start a portable. If I had natural gas, I'd probably go ahead and bit the bullet.

[Darrell KSR]

All this talk about hot water heaters, and tonight I was watching an old Cheers episode. Carla is exchanging insults with her paramour, John Allen Hill. Hill says, "Ahh, Miss Tortelli. Is that a new hairdo, or did someone toss a toaster in your bathtub?"

He corrects himself, and then says, "What am I thinking...what would you be doing in a bathtub?"

I know it's dumb, but I keep laughing about that one and had to share it when I thought about this thread. P.S. I'm going to hate finishing the series. Not a real fan of going back to a lot of "today" television.

[KentuckyWildcat]

I was just thinking we have 70 plus post about hot water heaters. If I knew we enjoyed hot water this much I would have started this thread years ago :)

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[Doc]

Tankless!!! We put on in the new house. Unlimited hot water and minimal maintenace are two things that make me smile