Race tightening..but I have little faith in John Roberts and his court...

[VirginiaCat]

Arizona down to under 6500 votes and many saying Trump takes lead there today. Similar thoughts about GA.

If that happens we will be down to USSCOTUS making a call on election laws.

PA law clearly states that all ballots must be RECEIVED by Nov. 3. The PA Sec. State extended based on extenuating circumstances and the PASCOTUS confirmed that change. USCSCOTUS did not rule due to to timing 2-3 weeks ago.

IF they choose to rule on the late arriving ballots, it will set a precedent for other states that accepted late ballots IF their laws read similar to PA law.



To my non-attorney brain, the law is clear. Must have been received by midnight Nov. 3. Nothing after that counts. Only the Legislature can make law. Not PASCOTUS.

But, and as a Trump supporter, I truly worry if a Roberts run court would be willing to tell voters that sent in a mail in ballot (Lets assume they are real for this argument) but it arrived after Nov. 3 that their vote does not count. If you look at PA, MI and NV that would likely be over 1million votes tossed out.

[dan_bgblue]

Only the Legislature can make law.

You are obviously a strict constitutional believer, not one of them thar folks that likes to make things up as they go.

[dan_bgblue]

If I am sitting on the SCOTUS and working on such a case, if the ballot had been mailed and postmarked, lets say 7 days prior to the 3rd and still arrived late, I would vote to count the votes on that ballot.

[VirginiaCat]

If I am sitting on the SCOTUS and working on such a case, if the ballot had been mailed and postmarked, lets say 7 days prior to the 3rd and still arrived late, I would vote to count the votes on that ballot.

So, you are walking an inbetween line.

under Common law, I think postmark date means a lot. If I mail a contract and is it post marked on a date, that date is deemed to be the effective date UNLESS the contract specifically says it must be received or in hand on that date.

Given that, I think the language in PA precludes your position however. Received is pretty clear.

[dan_bgblue]

I would not try to fight that opinion in court, but I would see if I could not find a work around given that the USPS was determined to be abnormally slow in their deliveries just prior to the 3rd. If the state or the feds allowed me to vote via mail and I submit my ballot to the USPS in a timely manner, lets say 7 days before the deadline for receipt, should I not expect the ballot to be delivered on time and accepted even if it arrived 5 days late?

[Catonahottinroof]

I’m not a lawyer, but I’d tend to think postmarks on the last date available for being counted are going to be counted.
If the post office has issues with delivery, that is an issue Congress will need to deal with....like right now..
If there is substantial fraud with back dating of ballots, that seems to be an issue that SCOTUS may take on concerning this election, but will be a bigger issue way past this election....possibly even something directed at voting by mail at all. Especially in states where there is no ID requirement to obtain the ballot.

[ukpumacat]

Just a reminder.....Biden won PA already.

Three things:

1. The PA case is different than any other state that takes ballots after NOV 3rd. Because the state legislature there did not decide that. Their state Supreme Court did. That isn’t the case anywhere else so the ruling wouldn’t affect anywhere else.

2. Biden is up by 47,000 votes in PA. And not one ballot that came in after Nov 3rd has been counted. They were segregated.
No matter what SCOTUS decides on that case, Biden is winning PA by a good margin. This is all for show.

3. Republicans did well in PA down the ballot. Dems didn’t cheat. The simple fact is that a number of Republicans (or independents) voted for Republicans down ballot but couldn’t stomach Trump anymore and voted for Biden. That’s just a fact that Trump cannot handle. But he will leave the White House on Jan 20th.

[ukpumacat]

I should add a 4th. Biden can lose Georgia (he won’t) and Arizona and he will still be the President on January 20th.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Just a reminder.....Biden won PA already.

Three things:

1. The PA case is different than any other state that takes ballots after NOV 3rd. Because the state legislature there did not decide that. Their state Supreme Court did. That isn’t the case anywhere else so the ruling wouldn’t affect anywhere else.

2. Biden is up by 47,000 votes in PA. And not one ballot that came in after Nov 3rd has been counted. They were segregated.
No matter what SCOTUS decides on that case, Biden is winning PA by a good margin. This is all for show.

3. Republicans did well in PA down the ballot. Dems didn’t cheat. The simple fact is that a number of Republicans (or independents) voted for Republicans down ballot but couldn’t stomach Trump anymore and voted for Biden. That’s just a fact that Trump cannot handle. But he will leave the White House on Jan 20th.



Don't forget to add that Trump outperformed in Philadelphia from 2016. He got crushed in the suburbs and Biden flipped back Erie County. There is absolutely no mass voter fraud. One isolated incident of a Trump voter using a dead person's identity.

There is nothing the SCOTUS can do. Biden HANDILY won this election, especially if you consider this is a divided nation. To put his victory in some perspective. ONE time in the last 30 years has a Republican won the popular vote. Biden has surpassed the spread in that race. I recall that election the words "overwhelming mandate" and "I have political capital and I intend to use it". If that were true in 2004, then it is more true today.

[VirginiaCat]

Puma, you need to recheck the PA vote totals. It is my understanding all the votes in PA have been in the counts, including the segregated ones. I apologize if I have misheard that.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Puma, you need to recheck the PA vote totals. It is my understanding all the votes in PA have been in the counts, including the segregated ones. I apologize if I have misheard that.

As of 11/10 at 11 pm, there are 10k segregated votes and 90k provisional ballots that are currently not in the totals.


https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/10/pennsylvanias-top-election-officer-says-just-10-000-ballots-were-received-after-nov-3-435972



Trump would have to win about 75% of the remaining vote total. That is NOT happening. The race has been over. There was no wide spread fraud. Trump made ground in Philly, got crushed in the burbs and Biden flipped Erie County. It's over. Trump lost.

[Doc]

Just a reminder.....Biden won PA already.

Three things:

1. The PA case is different than any other state that takes ballots after NOV 3rd. Because the state legislature there did not decide that. Their state Supreme Court did. That isn’t the case anywhere else so the ruling wouldn’t affect anywhere else.

2. Biden is up by 47,000 votes in PA. And not one ballot that came in after Nov 3rd has been counted. They were segregated.
No matter what SCOTUS decides on that case, Biden is winning PA by a good margin. This is all for show.

3. Republicans did well in PA down the ballot. Dems didn’t cheat. The simple fact is that a number of Republicans (or independents) voted for Republicans down ballot but couldn’t stomach Trump anymore and voted for Biden. That’s just a fact that Trump cannot handle. But he will leave the White House on Jan 20th.

Just a reminder...no states have technically be won until the vote is certified.

[ukpumacat]

Just a reminder...no states have technically be won until the vote is certified.

Correct. That includes all of the Senators that Mitch met with that "won their states".

Also, states are already beginning to certify based on their state law. Delaware certified their results today.

[ukpumacat]

Puma, you need to recheck the PA vote totals. It is my understanding all the votes in PA have been in the counts, including the segregated ones. I apologize if I have misheard that.

Yes, you misheard that. As Stu said below, all votes past election day have been segregated and not counted. In fact, the Secretary of State said they have been shrink-wrapped and not even opened (envelopes).
There is a 0% chance Trump can win the state. They can throw out all of the ballots that came in after Nov 3rd and Biden still wins handily. They are even past the point of an automatic recount.

Outside of simply deciding the margin of victory, Georgia, Nevada and Arizona don't matter. Biden still wins electorally. Trump's team knows this. They are just trying to get/keep his base riled up. They know there is no massive fraud (that it would take to undo two states electoral votes). And they know the court is not going to overturn two states to give him the victory.

[Doc]

All the votes are not yet counted...and IIRC the left is obsessed with being sure EVERY vote counts yet they want Trump to concede before every one is counted?!. Is it that you want every vote counted until you take the lead, and then suppress all those remaining?

Bottom line is Donald Trump and his followers have every right (and in my view an obligation) to fight for what they believe is an issue. Voting integrity has been an issue for decades. Trump is doing what he does best, which is fight for what he believes. Other in the GOP would have wilted by now but not Trump. Kudo's to him. Citizens have a legal right to protest to what they believe is wrong. Its not just the left that gets that right. When the left does not like how minorities are treated, they protest. When they don't like certain statues, they protest. Nobody told Lebron James to shut up and learn to take a beating, yet the left wants Trump to accept and wilt away. But I do want to point out one difference between the left and right protests.

How the conservatives do it
https://cis.org/sites/default/files/2020-03/SCOTUS-2.jpg

and how the liberals do it
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/06/11/USAT/cf952c98-0f31-4d69-8a92-481f5a59aa5a-AP_America_Protests_Minnesota.jpg?width=1320&height=882&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp

https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Screen-Shot-2020-05-31-at-6.20.30-PM.png?w=1124

[Doc]

So, you are walking an inbetween line.

under Common law, I think postmark date means a lot. If I mail a contract and is it post marked on a date, that date is deemed to be the effective date UNLESS the contract specifically says it must be received or in hand on that date.

Given that, I think the language in PA precludes your position however. Received is pretty clear.

I tend to agree. If you are so worried about your vote counting, drop it off at a ballot box. Trusting the mail is like trusting any government bureaucracy. One example I liked was suggesting you put $500 in an envelope and send it to yourself. Do that with confidence, then vote by mail.

As for the topic in the OP, the SCOTUS won't overturn. If they did it would be a crisis and open a pandora's box. Me, I want it there to bring focus on the issue. I want it to bring attention to it before the GA runoffs so the democratic machine and Biden's fraud organization do not influence that one as well. Because given the chance, they will. It takes far fewer illegal and/or fabricated votes to sway a state than a nation.

[ukpumacat]

I tend to agree. If you are so worried about your vote counting, drop it off at a ballot box. Trusting the mail is like trusting any government bureaucracy. One example I liked was suggesting you put $500 in an envelope and send it to yourself. Do that with confidence, then vote by mail.



That is exactly what Dems did. They voted early (whether in person or dropping off at a ballot box). That is why there are so few "mail in's" received after Nov 3rd. Dems didn't trust the Post Office after Trump put DeJoy in charge (for good reason).

[catmanjack]

I thought they were hiding from this covid thing!

[ukpumacat]

I thought they were hiding from this covid thing!

Hiding? You mean being safe I hope. I have been. Very. To protect my mom and stepdad. And to protect my best friend who has heart issues.

And I voted early. I wore a mask and dropped my ballot in an official drop box. I wasn't within 20 feet of anyone else. Didn't have to stand in line. Didn't have to go inside and fill it out.

That is what most Dems did.

[ukpumacat]

9793

So a race being called does matter or doesn't?

[ukpumacat]

Should also mention, North Carolina receives mail in ballots 9 days after the election.

[Doc]

That is exactly what Dems did. They voted early (whether in person or dropping off at a ballot box). That is why there are so few "mail in's" received after Nov 3rd. Dems didn't trust the Post Office after Trump put DeJoy in charge (for good reason).

When in doubt blame Trump

[Doc]

Should also mention, North Carolina receives mail in ballots 9 days after the election.

But the point is they should not regardless who the winner of the state is. I don't care if ita California or FL or TX or NC. You want to say " Oh, NC went for Trump...see its all fair" is total BS and misses the point. No state should be counting votes 9 days after the election because it set the stage for fraud thru fabricated ballots

[ukpumacat]

But the point is they should not regardless who the winner of the state is. I don't care if ita California or FL or TX or NC. You want to say " Oh, NC went for Trump...see its all fair" is total BS and misses the point. No state should be counting votes 9 days after the election because it set the stage for fraud thru fabricated ballots

If you mean that all early votes should be counted before the election I COULDN’T AGREE MORE.
That’s why they tried to get the legislatures in several states to change their rule. They didn’t. Hopefully they will now.
These votes came in weeks early. They all could have been counted before. They should have been. It’s all optics. If they were counted before then Biden would have had a big lead on election night awaiting Election Day votes to come in. Would have completely changed the optics.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

If you mean that all early votes should be counted before the election I COULDN’T AGREE MORE.
That’s why they tried to get the legislatures in several states to change their rule. They didn’t. Hopefully they will now.
These votes came in weeks early. They all could have been counted before. They should have been. It’s all optics. If they were counted before then Biden would have had a big lead on election night awaiting Election Day votes to come in. Would have completely changed the optics.

I couldn't agree more as well.

All early voting should be completed 2 days after the last debate, post-marked by the date (if by mail) and counted early.

All this faux outrage about counting votes, not a peep about AK that just now has 51% of their vote counted. Not to mention that in every election, votes are counted well beyond election day. This election is only unique by the numbers of votes to count after election day. It's purely scale. The process is exactly the same.

This is just the same thing every time Republicans lose, and definitely fits the Trump pattern.

I just saw a timeline of responses to the 2016 election. All Trump minions were all over the networks calling Dems sore losers. All Democratic leaders were congratulating Trump on his win. At this point in 2016, Obama had already hosted Trump at the WH.

Pathetic, but typical and expected response from the sore losing GOP. History will definitely be unkind.

[catmanjack]

And it’s typical for the liberals to riot and burn America.

[Doc]

How much fraud is acceptable? 100 votes? 1,000 vote? 1,000,000 votes? Of course we don't how many bad votes were cast if you don't look. And the number won't change unless something is done to stop it.

I enjoy how the left cries every vote must count, and that attempting to address fraud is voter suppression yet fail to recognize that fraudulant votes are in fact vote suppression. Every illegal ballot counters a legal one. A single illegal vote for Biden cancelled a legal one for Trump and suppressed that vote....and vice versa

For me, an acceptable number is ZERO. That has been my standard and goal for decades. Maybe now it will be address rather than ignored or accepted as part of the process

[VirginiaCat]

I think we are all defining fraud differently.

First, if signatures on blind mailed ballots were not compared and verified, I think every one of those votes should be thrown out. Simply put, that is just asking for false ballots. I am guessing most on the D side would disagree with that opinion.

Second, I am guessing 1000 fraudulent votes will not bring in SCOTUS. 1 million would. And that is where this stuff iwth the Dominion Software will get interesting.

Heard an interview on the GA recount. On reason the T Team things GA will flip in the hand recount is that only 800 Trump votes did not have a down ballot vote (for senate etc). Over 250K Biden votes did not have a down ballot vote. Think about that...

[ukpumacat]

Heard an interview on the GA recount. On reason the T Team things GA will flip in the hand recount is that only 800 Trump votes did not have a down ballot vote (for senate etc). Over 250K Biden votes did not have a down ballot vote. Think about that...

And when the hand recount is done and Biden wins, what's the next play for Trump?

Its surprising to you that there are Republicans and Independents that voted Republican down ballot but are just sick of Trump?
I literally know about 20 STAUNCH Republicans that did not vote for Trump. And I can assure you they voted Republican down ballot.
I know someone very well that was at the Amy Comey Barrett ceremony (the super spreader one) sitting on the same row as Chris Christie and Kayleigh. They are as deep rooted Republican as you can get. And privately, they absolutely cannot stand Trump.
So no, this isn't that surprising to me.

[ukpumacat]

Also, I posted about this the other day but here is an article breaking down the Trump Defense Fund (and how so much of it is to pay down campaign debt). The first $8,000 that a donor gives goes to a Trump PAC and the RNC with $0 going to the election defense fund.
Each person will read this their own way....but my take/point is that Trump is getting his base all riled up and trying to raise money to pay off campaign debt.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-fundraising-insigh/donations-under-8k-to-trump-election-defense-instead-go-to-president-rnc-idUSKBN27R309

[ukpumacat]

For me, an acceptable number is ZERO. That has been my standard and goal for decades. Maybe now it will be address rather than ignored or accepted as part of the process

Agreed. Zero. That should always be the goal. And when they find any...fix it.