Because voter fraud never happens

[Doc]

I have heard this for decades from my democratic friends. They claim voter fraud is a myth, a right wing conspiracy, etc.... and they always claim there is not proof of it. This has always been a concern of mine, NOT JUST on this election. It has been a decades long concern for this very reason. Now we have an election that for many people the results are in question. Oh, its not in question for the democrats because they don't see the fraud, but for many there is. This came out today on Parler.


https://rumble.com/embed/v8e8kp/?pub=4

and not need to talk about the votes for Trump that the computer tallied for Biden (3,000 in Michigan) or the blocking of access, etc... It is this reason that many brought up the issue before the election, and its the reason that I support Trump exposing it so it can be addressed BEFORE the next election. I have no illusion that the election will be overturned. Its not about Trump. It is about believing in fair and honest elections regardless of who wins.

[CitizenBBN]

IMO anyone who thinks there is zero fraud is just foolish.

It's also not millions of votes.

But is it enough votes to put a thumb on the scales in key places? Now that's a more legit question.

There are loopholes you can drive a truck through. We have reports in Texas of a poll worker seeing people swipe random driver's licenses to qualify people to vote via drive through. We have several other statements of irregularities at voting places.

And none of that is where the obvious weak spots exist. The most obvious is mail in ballots, where you can canvas door to door and "help" people with ballots. In California it's legal to go door to door and collect people's ballots. Now, there's no chance at all that a party worker would "assist" some elderly person in filling it out, is there? No chance of them tossing a ballot if the sign of the wrong person is in the yard, etc. Or maybe you just send your operative to a stronghold of the opponent and collect even sealed ballots then burn them all, knowing you'll still come out net ahead.

With all the money and power involved in these elections the idea that the voting is clean is just silly. Of course it's dirty, the question is how dirty and is it dirty enough to actually change the outcomes.

Well, when races are as close as they are in some of the contests this year you have to wonder.

[bigsky]

Let me say this again. VOTER FRAUD HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. It is almost always geographic. That is, people move but vote in their old precinct. Or old city, school district, state, etc. Especially prevalent in college towns and transient states ( like Nevada). Also, in some states you can register and vote, on the day of the election. I have seen college students bused down to the courthouse, given water and sandwiches by the democrats. When, two years later, the letter confirming registration comes back “not at this address” it’s easy to say, “well that’s college students”. Yep. That’s also how you get away with fraud.

[CitizenBBN]

That's not even to count another obvious issue, which is people voting who aren't legal to vote, or voting more than once, etc. Those have been with us a long time.

These "expert" claims that there is minimal fraud are funny given what we know about operations like Chicago. Do we think no one else copied their ideas on how to win an election?

Seriously, there is no fraud in an election where no ID is required to show up and vote? Seriously?

The NCSL categorizes state-level voter ID laws as follows:[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_Identification_laws_in_the_United_States#cit e_note-21)


Photo ID required (strict): Georgia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(U.S._state)), Indiana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana), Kansas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas), Kentucky (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky), Mississippi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi), Tennessee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee), and Wisconsin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin).
Photo ID requested (non-strict): Arkansas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkansas), Alabama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabama), Florida (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida), Hawaii (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii), Idaho (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho), Louisiana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana), Michigan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan), Rhode Island (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhode_Island), South Dakota (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota), and Texas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas).
Non-photo ID required (strict): Arizona (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona), North Dakota (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota), and Ohio (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio).
Non-photo ID requested (non-strict): Alaska (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska), Colorado (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado), Connecticut (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut), Delaware (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware), Iowa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa), Missouri (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri), Montana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana), New Hampshire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire), Oklahoma (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma), South Carolina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Carolina), Utah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah), Washington (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_(state)), and West Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia),.
No ID required to vote at ballot box: California (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California), Illinois (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois), Maine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine), Maryland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland), Massachusetts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts), Minnesota (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota), Nebraska (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebraska), Nevada (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada), New Jersey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey), New Mexico (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico), New York (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_(state)), Oregon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon), Pennsylvania (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania), Vermont (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont), Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia), Wyoming (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming), and Washington, D.C. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington,_D.C.) No ID is required to vote in North Carolina as of Dec. 31, 2019.


So look at all of those states where you have no ID requirement at all. I guess you just show up and swear you're a legal voter in that district.

Can't do that to do anything else in the US. Can't get a plane ticket, can't rent a car, can't buy cigarettes, can't do anything at a bank, etc.

But it's OK to vote that way.

But there's no fraud.

Let's do that with airlines and see how it goes, then tell me there's no fraud.

[KeithKSR]

It’s not that hard to cheat when you count the votes. The same ballot counting machines were used in every state where there is some suspicious behavior. It’s not that hard to electronically skim votes.

[ukpumacat]

I didn’t click the link but I (and I’m sure everyone) thinks some version of voter fraud happens. Absolutely it happens.
Like the guy in PA who voted for Trump in his dead moms name. Things happen. Glitches happen. Fix them and catch them. I’m all for it.
I’m not worried about investigations because like you, if it’s out there....catch the people. I’m not worried in the least.

The issue of course is the President of the United States lacks a basic understanding of how early votes are counted. And he’s getting quacks riled up. But whatever. He will be gone in January.

Plenty of Dems have claimed voter fraud over the years. Tons.

https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/status/1325951831667699712?s=21

https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/status/1326254175714488328?s=21

Oh, and the postal worker in PA who claimed voter fraud there has already admitted he made it up. He made $130,000 out of it though so good for him?
https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1326301274120318978?s=21

[KeithKSR]

The postal worker denies recanting.

https://www.wnd.com/2020/11/4868580/

[dan_bgblue]

The postal worker denies recanting.

https://www.wnd.com/2020/11/4868580/

Somebody lied on Twitter? Say it ain't so. I can't depend on anything these days

[kingcat]

I will state my opinion if I may. And I dont intend to offend, but it is seemingly unavoidable unless one side decides to walk on proverbial eggshells. Yet I won't get into a tit for tat over it.

I'm certain there are isolated cases that should be dealt with as we all understand. But in this instance, claiming the whole system is a fraud is in itself fraudulent malfeasance. I have never heard such an outlandish claim before in an election.
And I'd think long and hard before buying in. I'd ask why George Bush, and many other prominent republicans celebrated here in the past wouldn't buy in or even give it any credence whatsoever. Knowing that they are more informed and connected than all of us here put together could come close to.

From there all the way down to the republican poll workers in hiding from death threats by members of their own party. Basically because they will not lie for the cause
Yes there is something historically abhorrent going on related to this election, but its not voter fraud. Its a rejection of the American system of govt. in hopes of maintaining power, and suppressing votes and disrespecting every American citizen.
If those mail-in ballots post marked on time are legit and cast in good faith..would one be opposed to casting hundreds of thousands of them aside? If not, that one is a major problem imo, and shows no patriotism or civic pride whatsoever. Nada. This administration seeks to do just that.

That said, Chris Krebs is and has been doing a magnificent job fighting that real danger however.

What there is evidence pointing to at this point, is an administration not afraid to disseminate fraudulent evidence and propagate disinformation to undermine the will of the people, defraud the constitution, and try to maintain power by any means at their disposal.
...all while betraying the trust of the American people.

Those facebook fact checks, debunking claims of systemic fraud and the like are being run by the United States dept. of homeland security. Its not suppressing opinions, it is protecting America from it's enemies and their willing accomplices who are programed to ignore every warning sign. It can happen to anyone...it's just their turn it seems and at the most critical of times.

From atop the DHS Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, Chris Krebs has been using his agency’s “Rumor Control” website — and his personal Twitter feed — to take on the viral conspiracies that are circulating widely in conservative circles, some of which have been promoted by the president and his top allies. Are we blind to what that means and to what shared end that brings us?

I'd read the following very closely.

https://www.cisa.gov/rumorcontrol#post

..and knowingly promoting any fake stuff to undermine elections should be prosecuted, imo. And every American should frown upon it.

https://twitter.com/cisakrebs/status/1326225064463896577?s=21

[dan_bgblue]

Are career politicians in the United States different from their counterparts in Russia, or Venezuela, or Mexico?

[CitizenBBN]

I'm certain there are isolated cases that should be dealt with as we all understand. But in this instance, claiming the whole system is a fraud is in itself fraudulent malfeasance. I have never heard such an outlandish claim before in an election.

I will claim the system has vastly more fraud than most think, and more than any politician wants to admit.

Think the police and the thin blue line to understand the psychology. And no, I don't believe Homeland Security or anyone else has REALLY tried to get to the truth.

I believed that long before I had heard Donald Trump's name btw.

It is not a "conspiracy". it is a simple understanding of how to exploit loopholes in any given system, and a basic understanding that power corrupts. There is no system on this planet run by humans where the accumulation of power and wealth, and control over its distribution, it not infected with a level of corruption.

The only question is how much exists.

Why, in a California election for example, would you spend tens of millions and it never occurs to anyone that a great way to get some votes would be to send operatives to every nursing home in the area and offer to help them fill out their ballots.

Do you really think politics is so clean that those involved wont' stoop to such things? They are caught porking their assistants, taking huge donations from special interests, even starting military conflicts for political purposes, but they would never stoop to such things?

is it enough votes to change elections? I don't know, but I'm sure, absolutely sure, that the US election system is not the only human run system that controls massive amounts of power that does so without corruption. The only question is how much.


As for prosecuting people, now you are going down that wonderful line of the current Leftist rage, censoring speech per what you deem "fake" or "racist", etc. Sure you said "knowingly", how do you exactly define that kind of term? The lady in Georgia has yet to concede her Governor's race, do we lock her up?

Those who believed and promoted the Russian hoax undermined a sitting President, hampering his ability to conduct the business of the office, and they did so with no evidence whatosever. Is it only the institution of elections we are going to limit free speech to protect?

How about we all have free speech to believe and say what we want, as we have had for nearly 250 years, and we use that free speech to constantly question our leaders and government instead of just handing them gross levels of power without doubt or question?

Our Founders believed that questioning government was a good thing, and that if it couldn't stand up to the rigors of the questioning then it needed to do better.

So how about we examine how easy it is to commit fraud in states with no ID requirements, and we require IDs? How about we automate the system without all these absurd paper ballots, and we put in independent auditors like we have with most government agencies?

Maybe instead of silencing those with doubts, even those who are over the top with them, we look at how to construct a system that can reassure people as to its honesty and accuracy?

Bc I am no tin foil hat person, and I can tell you I don't trust this system at all. I'm can see a dozen ways to cheat it and I haven't even taken the time to really work on it.

No bank, no financial institution, no hospital, nothing else that runs in mission critical fashion would have this many possible security breaches and survive the faith of the people. Imagine a bank where all the money goes into a big single account and they then tell you how many people made what deposits, without any oversight. Who would deposit at that bank?

when people start calling for obvious closing of loopholes I'll believe they are sincere about wanting a clean election. Just silencing those who question it is something done in Third World and communist countries, not America.

[ukpumacat]

Voters voted. Biden won. Trump will go.
(If there was any fraud on either side hopefully it will be caught and prosecuted. It won’t affect this outcome one bit. Trump said he would do this. He’s done it before. All of this was predictable.)

[CitizenBBN]

And btw if you want an historic view of voter fraud, it was certainly rife in the past. My great grandfather told me about being met by a Happy Chandler rep on election day who was handing out whiskey if they went in and voted for Happy.

So it's not like this is new to politics. Mayor Daley was famous for dead people voting for him, etc. The Chicago machine is well known.

Then there is the Teapot Dome Scandal, or Tammany Hall. Political bosses and vote fixing is as old as democracy.

The notion we suddenly stopped it seems far more unlikely than the notion that we simply have covered it up better. Did we all just mature? Stop caring about who wins? There are no more people as power hungry as Boss Tweed?

No, it's there. I don't know how much they can pad things, but there's no doubt they do it.

Why for example not require an ID to vote? You need one for nearly anything you do in this country, and you an get one for free even if you don't drive from any county in the US.

The only reason to not require one is to cheat. That simple. B/c the only people can't get one are here illegally, and the only people who can't vote are felons or people who are registered to vote in another location. Not having an ID allows illegals to vote, allows you to vote wherever you want, including more than once in some states b/c of their lack of checks, etc.

So let's require IDs, let's have an audit trail of everyone who voted that can be checked by an independent body or both political parties, and then let's see how many of these conspiracy theories survive.

[CitizenBBN]

Voters voted. Biden won. Trump will go.
(If there was any fraud on either side hopefully it will be caught and prosecuted. It won’t affect this outcome one bit. Trump said he would do this. He’s done it before. All of this was predictable.)

No doubt, but to dismiss the more fundamental issue of voter fraud simply b/c it's Trump being Trump is disingenuous.

Voter reforms of the 60s and 70s have been undone by states like California, all for gross political gain. No doubt the GOP also wants to restrict voting, but an obvious compromise, a moderate position you should love, would be to require the same basic security for an election that we observe for writing a check at most grocery stores.

[kingcat]

Trump said he would do this. He’s done it before. All of this was predictable.)

I think some feel the need to prove otherwise.

[Doc]

Voters voted. Biden won. Trump will go.
(If there was any fraud on either side hopefully it will be caught and prosecuted. It won’t affect this outcome one bit. Trump said he would do this. He’s done it before. All of this was predictable.)

Trump said he would do it because fraud has been rampant for decades, and its not been addressed except to make it easier. It was clear from the get go that the left was going to again us Chicago/Daly type methods to win. You might like fraudulent elections if your candidate wins but some Americans don't. Who knows, maybe Biden could have won a fair and honest election. We will never know. Trump is bringing much needed attention to a serious problem, one that other election candidates do not have courage to fight. Democrats are happy with a system they can use to their benefit considering Biden admitted he had set up one of the best election fraud systems ever... and his party used it AGAIN. Personally I am tired of elections were there are thousands of fraudulent votes, even if that is not enough to change the outcome this time. In 2000, FL had a cluster#### for an election yet the Republican won. In response the state redid its election format for the better. We now have a governor who replaced those crooked/inefficient election commishinors in counties ripe with irregularities. Meanwhile the left touts they want every vote counted. Me, I want every legal vote counted and NO illegal one regardless of if they are "D" or "R". I realize your shortsightedness and dislike for Trump prohibits you from acknowledging that this is more about future elections than the current one.

[ukpumacat]

I don’t think anyone is actually arguing or debating here.
I think fraud happens. Where it happens, I am all for fixing it. So fix it.
AND, Trump lost. Biden won. Trump will go.
These two things are not mutually exclusive.

The hypocrisy is in Republicans (including Mitch McConnell) accepting the results down the ballot but not at the top. That is just completely illogical. It’s the SAME ballot.
So either Biden won and Republicans won the Senate (probably) and gained seats in the House.
Or none of them did.
But Mitch has already invited and met with the “winning Senators” on the Republican side. And Fox News has already talked endlessly about how the Republicans gained in the House. No cry for Frauds there. Only at the top where they lost.
I’m not the one who is being disingenuous.
I realize their short sidedness and loyalty for Trump prohibits them from acknowledging that fact, but it’s true nonetheless.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

For all those whining about voter fraud, then you should look to your majority Republican run Secretary of State's that keep certifying these elections and also look at Donald Trump and Kris Kobach and their failed commission to prove there was any fraud in the 2016 election.

In recent memory, there has been one instance where a race result actually had to be thrown out and the election being repeated and that was a massive fraud by Republicans.

Even in this election, in PA, the ONE incident found involved a Trump voter.

There is absolutely fraud that happens, but from the data, it appears to be one-sided. Unproven conspiracy theories attempt to point the fingers at the other side. Investigate away!

The only mass voter fraud that happened in 2020 is that the voters overwhelmingly decided to vote out the fraud.

[Doc]

I don’t think anyone is actually arguing or debating here.
I think fraud happens. Where it happens, I am all for fixing it. So fix it.
AND, Trump lost. Biden won. Trump will go.
These two things are not mutually exclusive.

The hypocrisy is in Republicans (including Mitch McConnell) accepting the results down the ballot but not at the top. That is just completely illogical. It’s the SAME ballot.
So either Biden won and Republicans won the Senate (probably) and gained seats in the House.
Or none of them did.
But Mitch has already invited and met with the “winning Senators” on the Republican side. And Fox News has already talked endlessly about how the Republicans gained in the House. No cry for Frauds there. Only at the top where they lost.
I’m not the one who is being disingenuous.
I realize their short sidedness and loyalty for Trump prohibits them from acknowledging that fact, but it’s true nonetheless.

Lets talk hypocrisy.

The left was all in favor of protests etc with BLM, and applauded people with power for stepping up for a cause (like Lebron James) to rectify something they perceived as an injustice. Lets ignore the violent protests and assume its all peaceful. However when the right does the same to combat a perceived injustice concerning voting, and when done by a person with power, now its shut up and accept the results.

The left is also the same party that spent 36 days trying to overturn the Bush Gore election...the same party that Hillary announced that Biden should NEVER CONCEDE if he lost, the same party that for 4 years has not accepted the 2016 results, the same party where the loser in the GA governor race still claims she won. But so long as we can preach for peace once Biden appears to have one... after spending 4 years promoting disunity and hate....all is good.

[ukpumacat]

Yes. Hypocrisy happens on both sides. We agree.
This thread is about fraud.
Both sides have claimed fraud many many times (even though above you said Dems always say it doesn't exist). Often, when a candidate loses, they cry fraud. Stacey Abrams was the latest to do it.
Now, Trump is doing it. He lost. He will go.

[Doc]

Yes. Hypocrisy happens on both sides. We agree.
This thread is about fraud.
Both sides have claimed fraud many many times (even though above you said Dems always say it doesn't exist). Often, when a candidate loses, they cry fraud. Stacey Abrams was the latest to do it.
Now, Trump is doing it. He lost. He will go.

Maybe if Abrams had continued the fight to expose the fraud, I would have some sympathy. She didn't because she knows the voting dead always vote democrat. She knows that those without ID's always vote blue. She knows that pollsters in vans filling out ballots after the polls close lean left. She knows that computer glitches always mismark for the liberal. Been that way for years. Nobody short of Trumps had had the balls to fight it out. Certainly none of the spineless members of the GOP who "represent" their constituents. An election that the people have confidence in is the goal. That would include being 100% that voters who vote are eligible to vote, that they are alive, and that they vote once and only once. Under the current system, that is not the case.

[ukpumacat]

Maybe if Abrams had continued the fight to expose the fraud, I would have some sympathy. She didn't because she knows the voting dead always vote democrat. She knows that those without ID's always vote blue. She knows that pollsters in vans filling out ballots after the polls close lean left. She knows that computer glitches always mismark for the liberal. Been that way for years. Nobody short of Trumps had had the balls to fight it out. Certainly none of the spineless members of the GOP who "represent" their constituents. An election that the people have confidence in is the goal. That would include being 100% that voters who vote are eligible to vote, that they are alive, and that they vote once and only once. Under the current system, that is not the case.

"The only way I can lose is if he cheats".
Trump said it a thousand times on the stump. The little fraud they have found in the past 20 years in both Republican and Democratic states has been on BOTH sides. Everything else is simply false rumors and accusations with no proof.
Trump isn't doing this because he "has the balls". He is doing it because he has the ego. His ego can't handle the fact that over 50% of America voted him out.
He has always been able to litigate himself out of every other situation in his life. So he's trying that in this one. It won't work. On January 20th, he's leaving the White House.

[dan_bgblue]

Maybe if Abrams had continued the fight to expose the fraud, I would have some sympathy. She didn't because she knows the voting dead always vote democrat. She knows that those without ID's always vote blue. She knows that pollsters in vans filling out ballots after the polls close lean left. She knows that computer glitches always mismark for the liberal. Been that way for years. Nobody short of Trumps had had the balls to fight it out. Certainly none of the spineless members of the GOP who "represent" their constituents. An election that the people have confidence in is the goal. That would include being 100% that voters who vote are eligible to vote, that they are alive, and that they vote once and only once. Under the current system, that is not the case.

Abrams comes out of the closet to support voter Id requirement to vote? The universe just tilted and wobbled a bit.

Linkage (https://www.foxnews.com/media/washington-post-stacey-abrams-democrats-evolution-voter-id)

[CitizenBBN]

The polling shows 80% of Americans support voter ID, and they are now fully aware their bill won't pass the Senate so they are thinking Manchin's compromise is better than nothing.

His bill requires "voter ID" but it is very loose, allowing things like utility bills to suffice, etc.

FWIW that used to work for buying a gun too, and ATF tightened that restriction so you have to have not just a photo ID but a CORRECT photo id with all info matching what you put on the form, like address.

IMO the standard for voting should be the same as the standard to buy a gun, since guns are a protected right just like voting. If that's not too restrictive to buy a gun and invoke your 2nd Amendment right to self defense as established by Heller and McDonald, then it's not too restrictive to vote.

[catmanjack]

The only reason Democrats are against any updated voting laws would be because they will not be allowed to steal any future voting and yes it helps republicans also because this country is and has been swinging to the wrong side for awhile.

[KeithKSR]

The polling shows 80% of Americans support voter ID, and they are now fully aware their bill won't pass the Senate so they are thinking Manchin's compromise is better than nothing.

His bill requires "voter ID" but it is very loose, allowing things like utility bills to suffice, etc.

FWIW that used to work for buying a gun too, and ATF tightened that restriction so you have to have not just a photo ID but a CORRECT photo id with all info matching what you put on the form, like address.

IMO the standard for voting should be the same as the standard to buy a gun, since guns are a protected right just like voting. If that's not too restrictive to buy a gun and invoke your 2nd Amendment right to self defense as established by Heller and McDonald, then it's not too restrictive to vote.

The claims that minorities can’t afford an ID is ludicrous. You have to provide a valid ID to obtain government assistance, and there is a huge percentage of people in the country on some kind of assistance.

[CitizenBBN]

You have to have photo ID to buy a gun, get on a plane, rent almost anything, get prescriptions at any pharmacy I know about, etc.

They are free, last for years.

The only reason to not want a photo ID to vote is b/c you plan on cheating.

[KeithKSR]

You have to have photo ID to buy a gun, get on a plane, rent almost anything, get prescriptions at any pharmacy I know about, etc.

They are free, last for years.

The only reason to not want a photo ID to vote is b/c you plan on cheating.

When my two younger daughters were in eighth grade we had to get them state IDs made for their 8th grade trips.

[VirginiaCat]

Scuttlebutt is the Arizona audit producing some "interesting" results. This after the Fulton County audit evidently counted the same absentee ballots 100 times in place of other mailed in absentee ballots.

[Doc]

You have to have photo ID to buy a gun, get on a plane, rent almost anything, get prescriptions at any pharmacy I know about, etc.

They are free, last for years.

The only reason to not want a photo ID to vote is b/c you plan on cheating.

You forgot buy alcohol and smokes. Didn't you know that most minorities don't buy guns, fly on planes, rent anything, or buy legal drugs. However they do buy alcohol and smokes.


(HEY, IF YOU'RE GOING TO CALL ME A RACIST I MIGHT AS WELL POST SOME GOOD OL FASHION RACIST BELIEFS....OTHERWISE IT IS WORTHLESS)

[Doc]

When my two younger daughters were in eighth grade we had to get them state IDs made for their 8th grade trips.

When my son was 4, we had to provide ID for him to get on a plane. He was 4 years old and able to get identification.

[Doc]

Scuttlebutt is the Arizona audit producing some "interesting" results. This after the Fulton County audit evidently counted the same absentee ballots 100 times in place of other mailed in absentee ballots.

I am shocked. Nobody saw this coming. :533:

[KeithKSR]

I am shocked. Nobody saw this coming. :533:

All election audits should be welcomed by all. The only reason not to want an audit is if you know or suspect your side cheated.

[dan_bgblue]

All election audits should be welcomed by all. The only reason not to want an audit is if you know or suspect your side cheated.

The MSM is saying "nothing to see here, move along"

[CitizenBBN]

Fair point about smokes and booze, which is important I think by age more than race (or sure was when I was around 21 years old), so I think you're OK, lol.

I challenge anyone to defend the idea that there is a real reason to allow anyone to vote without a photo ID. Excluding online and absentee, which may need different procedures as those things evolve, but basic in person voting.

And IMO, despite my being a computer guy my whole life, I can't think of anything less reliable than voting online. The FTC reported 4.8 MILLION identity thefts in 2020. There's zero reason to think state governments with their horrid and outdated IT would do a better job of security than currently exists with banks, card companies, Amazon, etc. So the notion that millions of votes could be fraudulent in such a system is not far fetched at all based on current levels of fraud. More than enough to sway a large number of elections.

You can't buy a gun in this country without coming IN PERSON to a licensed FFL, doing the paperwork, having valid photo ID, and having a security check run. You can't, as you point out Doc, order booze and smokes and have them show up at your door in most states, and where you can there are extra procedures.

It's perfectly reasonable that voting require at least a modicum of effort to insure basic integrity. Requiring people to put forth the most basic of effort to participate is not disenfranchising them, any more than requiring strict tracing and security of firearms prevents one from exercising their 2nd Amendment right to self defense.

[KeithKSR]

Fair point about smokes and booze, which is important I think by age more than race (or sure was when I was around 21 years old), so I think you're OK, lol.

I challenge anyone to defend the idea that there is a real reason to allow anyone to vote without a photo ID. Excluding online and absentee, which may need different procedures as those things evolve, but basic in person voting.

And IMO, despite my being a computer guy my whole life, I can't think of anything less reliable than voting online. The FTC reported 4.8 MILLION identity thefts in 2020. There's zero reason to think state governments with their horrid and outdated IT would do a better job of security than currently exists with banks, card companies, Amazon, etc. So the notion that millions of votes could be fraudulent in such a system is not far fetched at all based on current levels of fraud. More than enough to sway a large number of elections.

You can't buy a gun in this country without coming IN PERSON to a licensed FFL, doing the paperwork, having valid photo ID, and having a security check run. You can't, as you point out Doc, order booze and smokes and have them show up at your door in most states, and where you can there are extra procedures.

It's perfectly reasonable that voting require at least a modicum of effort to insure basic integrity. Requiring people to put forth the most basic of effort to participate is not disenfranchising them, any more than requiring strict tracing and security of firearms prevents one from exercising their 2nd Amendment right to self defense.

The federal government requires a state issued ID to create an account with the IRS to manage the advance child tax credit payments that are set to begin next month.

[catmanjack]

Was wondering how this count was going.

Scuttlebutt is the Arizona audit producing some "interesting" results. This after the Fulton County audit evidently counted the same absentee ballots 100 times in place of other mailed in absentee ballots.

[KeithKSR]

Was wondering how this count was going.

They are doing some final verification stuff now. I’ve heard that the results are going to be quite interesting.

[catmanjack]

Looking forward to the outcome.

[VirginiaCat]

Info starting to leak out of Arizona...

Sounds like they cannot even agree with the number of ballots cast...something not adding up.... Team has brought in machines to simply count paper ballots, not the tabulation. Evidently the Dominion machines miscounted ballots...

So, not even able to account for all ballots let along how they were cast!

[catmanjack]

But there was not an issue and voter reform is not needed.
All the heat Trump took this group of Democrats are flat terrible.

[MickintheHam]

Well, well, well! Lookie here! We now have video from Fulton county,mGA where the audit of the election shows thousands of ballots were scanned twice. Even the Atlanta Journal Constitutuion has deplored the action of democrat poll workers. We now have video of poll workers feeding stacks of absentee ballots through the scanning machines. None of the ballots have ever been folded and put in envelopes.

Didn’t Jimmy Carter and his wife Rosalind regularly go to places like Nicarauga and Honduras to monitor elections? Well, maybe they should think about getting off their almost dead asses and drive a few blocks to the Fulton Co. Courthouse and report back to the American people.

[dan_bgblue]

Didn’t Jimmy Carter and his wife Rosalind regularly go to places like Nicarauga and Honduras to monitor elections? Well, maybe they should think about getting off their almost dead asses and drive a few blocks to the Fulton Co. Courthouse and report back to the American people.

Yes they did, and they may still be providing that service. However, I do not recall their efforts ever changing the outcome of an election.

[Doc]

Yes they did, and they may still be providing that service. However, I do not recall their efforts ever changing the outcome of an election.

The results wont be changed. The left won, be it by hook or by crook. However this was an eye opener. I have always suspected wide spread cheating, as have many others. In the past it was written off as not significant enough to change the results despite there being no quantitative or qualitative analysis. It wasnt until a outsider pushed it. Fortunately and hopefully it will spur the fight for fair and HONEST elections where widespread cheating wont be overlooked. These audits are important for the future, not the past

[VirginiaCat]

74000 uncounted mail in ballots. Wow

[CitizenBBN]

74000 uncounted mail in ballots. Wow

Source?

[catmanjack]

That’s being reported in Arizona?

[dan_bgblue]

Source?

This report claims that number to be false. (https://apnews.com/article/government-and-politics-arizona-ap-fact-check-election-2020-campaign-2016-f0c36df59ee1069d65aa6a70a22d88cc)

This report shows that the claim has been made (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arizona-election-audit-need-information-report-results/)

[KeithKSR]

Info starting to leak out of Arizona...

Sounds like they cannot even agree with the number of ballots cast...something not adding up.... Team has brought in machines to simply count paper ballots, not the tabulation. Evidently the Dominion machines miscounted ballots...

So, not even able to account for all ballots let along how they were cast!

The current audit has counted them multiple times. They don’t want any doubt in the number of actual ballots on hand. That tells me there is a significant difference in the number of reported votes and the number of ballots. This would happen if someone did something like run the same stacks of ballots through the system multiple times.

[KeithKSR]

The results wont be changed. The left won, be it by hook or by crook. However this was an eye opener. I have always suspected wide spread cheating, as have many others. In the past it was written off as not significant enough to change the results despite there being no quantitative or qualitative analysis. It wasnt until a outsider pushed it. Fortunately and hopefully it will spur the fight for fair and HONEST elections where widespread cheating wont be overlooked. These audits are important for the future, not the past

The Constitution doesn’t even consider an event like an overturned election. The best reasonable expectation is reforms to fix issues before the 2022 Congressional races are on the ballot.

[KeithKSR]

This report claims that number to be false. (https://apnews.com/article/government-and-politics-arizona-ap-fact-check-election-2020-campaign-2016-f0c36df59ee1069d65aa6a70a22d88cc)

This report shows that the claim has been made (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arizona-election-audit-need-information-report-results/)

The fact checkers are only relying upon the word salad response from Maricopa. The same bozos fact checkers have claimed Hunter’s laptop was a Russian plant, the virus didn’t escape from the lab, and a host of other things they have been proven to have gotten wrong.

Here is the audit claim, , "We have 74,243 mail-in ballots where there is no clear record of their being sent."

Maricopa claims, "In Maricopa County, we allow people to vote early in two ways: 1) by mail and 2) in-person at Vote Centers. These are all considered early votes."

The obvious thing here is that the audit specifically mentions mail-in ballots, which voters had to request. EV-32 is mail-in ballots sent out, code EV-33 is mail-in ballots returned. Neither appears to be for in-person early voting ballots. In most places in-person voting is done the same regardless of if it is cast early or on Election Day.

If Maricopa has nothing to hide they will stop hiding the information and machines.