Here Is A Democratic Senator That I Admire, Joe Manchin

[Darryl]

link:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sen-joe-manchin-if-democrats-win-senate-i-wont-support-crazy-stuff-like-court-packing

Darryl

[ukpumacat]

He’s a good one.

[catmanjack]

Just need logic from both sides and really there is not a side!

[kingcat]

Ive always liked him too. As with Joe Biden, he represents the moderate wing of the Democratic party.

[ukpumacat]

Btw, I wrote a long post about guys like Manchin yesterday.
It’s political suicide for most to be like him. Or you would see many more.
Think about it....
Republicans have some exactly like him (Jeff Flake was one. McCain another).
Principled. Moderate. Not swayed by media or their caucus. And not hypocritical.
And most of you guys hate them (based on comments here): Romney. Murkowski. Collins.
There will likely be a Gang of 6 in this next Senate. These people should be celebrated. But they aren’t. We are in trouble as a nation when one Trump tweet or Hannity episode can completely turn an entire party against you. But that’s where we are.

[dan_bgblue]

Omar not happy with Manchin, and I suspect the rest of the squad agrees (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ilhan-omar-joe-manchin-progressives)

[ukpumacat]

Omar not happy with Manchin, and I suspect the rest of the squad agrees (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ilhan-omar-joe-manchin-progressives)

Both parties will continue to move to extremes (and appoint judges that are as well) as long as guys like Manchin, Flake and Romney are hated by voters of their own parties vs celebrated.

[catmanjack]

The squad now that is a group I would support! Total trash but elected officials from the Democratic Party.

[ukpumacat]

The squad now that is a group I would support! Total trash but elected officials from the Democratic Party.

Republicans have their own squad. A group of representatives who are QAnons but elected officials from the Republican Party.

[CitizenBBN]

Btw, I wrote a long post about guys like Manchin yesterday.
It’s political suicide for most to be like him. Or you would see many more.
Think about it....
Republicans have some exactly like him (Jeff Flake was one. McCain another).
Principled. Moderate. Not swayed by media or their caucus. And not hypocritical.
And most of you guys hate them (based on comments here): Romney. Murkowski. Collins.
There will likely be a Gang of 6 in this next Senate. These people should be celebrated. But they aren’t. We are in trouble as a nation when one Trump tweet or Hannity episode can completely turn an entire party against you. But that’s where we are.

If he was a Republican he would get the same treatment as the others. Since he's a Democrat who will cross the aisles he's great, but a Republican doing that wouldn't be so popular.

That being said, I don't get why any of them are so admired. They aren't "principled", they're just smart to sit the fence b/c they are from states that sit the fence.

Manchin is in a state that traditionally was Democrat, but a mix of conservative and traditional blue collar Democrat. Well the Dems have up and left those folks, and his state is now hard core Trump territory and he's still a Democrat. So his best position is to probably stay a Democrat but be very Bill Clinton conservative Democrat. He doesn't support the leftist agenda b/c he'd lose his seat.

Same for Collins, who is dancing on the head of a pin in Maine. Murkowski not so much.

And I'm still looking for McCain's principles. When there was zero chance of the Senate's Obamacare repeal going anywhere he was happy to vote for it, but when the vote actually counted he bailed. that's principled? No, that's political expediency. Kept him in good with the GOP leaders to vote for it while it didn't cost him in a state that he knew was increasingly purple, but when it was going to require him to defend the vote back home he bailed out.

They're politicians just like any other. They just happen to be in places where moderation is the winning strategy, so it will tend to elect people who are more moderate and people who are also politically good at being moderate and riding that fence.

Now that being said, I do agree that moderation is quickly falling out of fashion on both sides. It used to be McCain could be a moderate in a much redder Arizona and be fine, or Joe Lieberman could be a moderate in a very blue Connecticut. I agree those days are coming to an end.

[CitizenBBN]

Republicans have their own squad. A group of representatives who are QAnons but elected officials from the Republican Party.

I don't normally defend the GOP leadership, but you'd be hard pressed to find a group of Republicans anywhere near as extreme as the Squad, and absolutely you can't find them being given any voice.

Jim Jordan and the more Tea Party remnants is about the only clear subgroup in the GOP in Congress, and they are pretty traditional fiscal conservatives. I'm sure there are some conspiracy nuts up there, but compared to the Green New Deal and a true embrace of socialism and structurally changing government to eliminate the opposition I'm not sure they are equals.

[Doc]

If he was a Republican he would get the same treatment as the others. Since he's a Democrat who will cross the aisles he's great, but a Republican doing that wouldn't be so popular.

That being said, I don't get why any of them are so admired. They aren't "principled", they're just smart to sit the fence b/c they are from states that sit the fence.

Manchin is in a state that traditionally was Democrat, but a mix of conservative and traditional blue collar Democrat. Well the Dems have up and left those folks, and his state is now hard core Trump territory and he's still a Democrat. So his best position is to probably stay a Democrat but be very Bill Clinton conservative Democrat. He doesn't support the leftist agenda b/c he'd lose his seat.

Same for Collins, who is dancing on the head of a pin in Maine. Murkowski not so much.

And I'm still looking for McCain's principles. When there was zero chance of the Senate's Obamacare repeal going anywhere he was happy to vote for it, but when the vote actually counted he bailed. that's principled? No, that's political expediency. Kept him in good with the GOP leaders to vote for it while it didn't cost him in a state that he knew was increasingly purple, but when it was going to require him to defend the vote back home he bailed out.

They're politicians just like any other. They just happen to be in places where moderation is the winning strategy, so it will tend to elect people who are more moderate and people who are also politically good at being moderate and riding that fence.

Now that being said, I do agree that moderation is quickly falling out of fashion on both sides. It used to be McCain could be a moderate in a much redder Arizona and be fine, or Joe Lieberman could be a moderate in a very blue Connecticut. I agree those days are coming to an end.

principled for a politician, sort of like Biden

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

[ukpumacat]

If he was a Republican he would get the same treatment as the others. Since he's a Democrat who will cross the aisles he's great, but a Republican doing that wouldn't be so popular.

That being said, I don't get why any of them are so admired. They aren't "principled", they're just smart to sit the fence b/c they are from states that sit the fence.

Manchin is in a state that traditionally was Democrat, but a mix of conservative and traditional blue collar Democrat. Well the Dems have up and left those folks, and his state is now hard core Trump territory and he's still a Democrat. So his best position is to probably stay a Democrat but be very Bill Clinton conservative Democrat. He doesn't support the leftist agenda b/c he'd lose his seat.

Same for Collins, who is dancing on the head of a pin in Maine. Murkowski not so much.

And I'm still looking for McCain's principles. When there was zero chance of the Senate's Obamacare repeal going anywhere he was happy to vote for it, but when the vote actually counted he bailed. that's principled? No, that's political expediency. Kept him in good with the GOP leaders to vote for it while it didn't cost him in a state that he knew was increasingly purple, but when it was going to require him to defend the vote back home he bailed out.

They're politicians just like any other. They just happen to be in places where moderation is the winning strategy, so it will tend to elect people who are more moderate and people who are also politically good at being moderate and riding that fence.

Now that being said, I do agree that moderation is quickly falling out of fashion on both sides. It used to be McCain could be a moderate in a much redder Arizona and be fine, or Joe Lieberman could be a moderate in a very blue Connecticut. I agree those days are coming to an end.

LOL at the bolded part. Yes, we agree.

But none of the "purple state talk" addresses primaries.
Arizona is a purple state...but their Republicans are VERY red. So, Flake being a moderate wasn't politically expedient.
Same with Nebraska with Sasse. Utah with Romney. Even Murkowski in Alaska to a lesser degree.

The bottom line is that there are plenty of moderates in Congress. But they can't vote that way or they will lose in their primary. Many many would do better in the general in a purple state. Its the primaries they usually can't get out of.

[Catonahottinroof]

As in nearly all cases like this one, the money trail was followed. Surprise surprise where it led......
principled for a politician, sort of like Biden

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

[catmanjack]

Come on puma you are a very smart man and that group is trash.

Republicans have their own squad. A group of representatives who are QAnons but elected officials from the Republican Party.

[CitizenBBN]

LOL at the bolded part. Yes, we agree.

But none of the "purple state talk" addresses primaries.
Arizona is a purple state...but their Republicans are VERY red. So, Flake being a moderate wasn't politically expedient.
Same with Nebraska with Sasse. Utah with Romney. Even Murkowski in Alaska to a lesser degree.

The bottom line is that there are plenty of moderates in Congress. But they can't vote that way or they will lose in their primary. Many many would do better in the general in a purple state. Its the primaries they usually can't get out of.

Maybe in some states, and no doubt the primary process is a big limitation on going to the middle, but some states are more moderate and they can get through primaries, esp. if they are otherwise appealing.

Democrats in the south don't run on the Green New Deal even if they do have to run more liberal than the overall state. If they are otherwise good candidates, well spoken, maybe have military or business on their resume, some of those candidates can get out in those states.

Where it really hits hard is for POTUS, where you have both bases really riled up.

But now you have AOC "primarying" (not a word but about to become one) people who aren't left enough, and the GOP has done some of it too with the Tea Party. So I do agree it's only going to get worse, even in otherwise more moderate states.

[CitizenBBN]

principled for a politician, sort of like Biden

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

This.

I did a lot of research on the S&L crisis. First off our office lived through it, and I used it as the basis for a large business law project. McCain was up to his eyeballs in the mess, and is a smart man who knew exactly what he was doing.

As you said, as politicians go he's principled, which is better than a lot of them but not quite up to Joan of Arc.

He was a true war hero, and no one can take that away, but as a politician he was known to get down in the mud with the rest of the pigs more than once. He just cleaned up better than some.

And yes, that's very much like Biden. He maintains that "aw shucks" throwback image, while all the time through his family and friends he's making the same deals as any other dirty politician.

[catmanjack]

With his dementia setting in he does not remember anyway, heck he just beat George last week.

[ukpumacat]

But now you have AOC "primarying" (not a word but about to become one) people who aren't left enough, and the GOP has done some of it too with the Tea Party. So I do agree it's only going to get worse, even in otherwise more moderate states.

Ya, not a fan of it at all.

I should mention as well...its not just those who are "moderate". Its fine for some to be more conservative and others to be more liberal. But they need to be willing to work with each other also. Some do but not nearly enough.
Two that do (that have very few fans on the other side) are Rand Paul and Elizabeth Warren. Neither are "moderates" but both have been on (and co-sponsored) many bills with bipartisan support.

[CitizenBBN]

Ya, not a fan of it at all.

I should mention as well...its not just those who are "moderate". Its fine for some to be more conservative and others to be more liberal. But they need to be willing to work with each other also. Some do but not nearly enough.
Two that do (that have very few fans on the other side) are Rand Paul and Elizabeth Warren. Neither are "moderates" but both have been on (and co-sponsored) many bills with bipartisan support.

Rand Paul is about the most Libertarian person in the Senate, so he'll find issues that cross the aisles. He's also more isolationist, as are most Libertarians, and that is one that cuts across the aisles as well, as you have hawks and doves on both sides.

[KeithKSR]

I’ve followed Joe Manchin for a very long time. He became WV governor in 2005 and our local news comes out of the Huntington/Charleston area. He’s a likable guy, but tends to talk a more bipartisan game than his voting will indicate.

[KeithKSR]

Rand Paul is about the most Libertarian person in the Senate, so he'll find issues that cross the aisles. He's also more isolationist, as are most Libertarians, and that is one that cuts across the aisles as well, as you have hawks and doves on both sides.

Rand had no qualms with standing alone if that’s what it comes down to.