Ok, I'll be first to say it and take the blasting... [Archive]

JPScott

08-27-2020, 08:53 AM

I did not see a link to the zoom call, but I'm curious who exactly brought this up? I have to think someone in the media asked him about it. I don't think that Calipari brought it up on his own.

To me, with all that's going on in the world right now (both race related and non-race related), I think it's kind of out of place to even be discussing this issue right now. Not that it shouldn't ever be discussed, but it just seems like there's a lot more important and frankly more relevant issues that are taking place.

If it was a reporter that asked the question, I'm sure they'll say that they were simply asking Calipari since he hasn't been interviewed since the original request by the UKAA was made, but I still find it a poor time to be discussing this.

Darryl

08-27-2020, 08:58 AM

John, stay out of politics. Coach and recruit.

But stay out of politics. And if you truly want to change the name of Rupp Arena, it is time for you to go.

I started a post yesterday and ended up deleting it. I was very upset. If Calipari does this, he’s dead to me. White privilege my ass

Darryl

UKHistory

08-27-2020, 08:59 AM

UKHistory

08-27-2020, 09:01 AM

I started a post yesterday and ended up deleting it. I was very upset. If Calipari does this, he’s dead to me. White privilege my ass

Darryl

I agree. Hurt and betrayed if this occurs.

Terry Blue

08-27-2020, 09:07 AM

Most that make a living where they are dependent on primarily black athletes seem to go brain dead to various degrees as they are dealing with certain issues

JPScott

08-27-2020, 09:32 AM

Agree. When and what were his comments?

Actually his comments were very fair IMO. He just said he'd be willing to listen, didn't commit one way or the other.

Link to article (https://247sports.com/college/kentucky/Article/Kentucky-basketball-John-Calipari-Rupp-Arena-name-change-150710168/?utm_source=247Sports%2520Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=200826_140802_KentuckyWildcats&utm_content=Link)

"From what I understand (the African-American and Africana Studies program) were talking about a lot of different things," Calipari said via Zoom on Wednesday. "This is another chance for us to listen and learn. Some people agree, some people are not going to agree. I would tell you for me personally, knowing the (Rupp) family, knowing Herky (Adolph Rupp's son) like I did, what’s out there that tells me it’s something different? I’m all ears. I’m going to listen."

KSRBEvans

08-27-2020, 09:39 AM

It's not like Cal's affirmatively going out and campaigning on this. It was part of a press availability where he was asked about a wide range of topics. It was inevitable he would be asked--should he have said "No comment"? That would've been much worse.

IMHO his answer was thoughtful and honest. You can agree with him or not, but he's doing the best he can in an incredibly difficult spot.

Darryl

08-27-2020, 09:48 AM

I am more upset about him talking about he is successful because of white privilege.

That was the ESPN article yesterday.I am very successful nowadays, and it is not because of white privilege. The harder I worked, the more privilege I received.

Darryl

Doc

08-27-2020, 09:56 AM

John, stay out of politics. Coach and recruit.

But stay out of politics. And if you truly want to change the name of Rupp Arena, it is time for you to go.

No blasting from me.

Doc

08-27-2020, 09:59 AM

First if Cal supports the name change I am done.

What Cal is reported to say is that he will listen.

He also said that knowing the family, knowing Herkey that he has a hard time thinking the name should be removed.

I will take it as an effort to be respectful and appease them to keep the name.

If Rupp’s name is removed I am gone.

No pbm listening. I listen to many ideas that I think are dumb, or ill advised. Had he said otherwise then he would be attacked for being closed minded on the issue.

I have no huge affection for the name "Rupp". I am sort of neutral. HOWEVER I am 100% against anybody forcing anything. If 99% of the fanbase, or even 50.1% of the fanbase wants to keep it as Rupp then I am all for it staying. I am 100% against the cancel culture. That is a given.

catmanjack

08-27-2020, 10:05 AM

I agree, politics has no business in sports.

catmanjack

08-27-2020, 10:07 AM

The one thing I would ask these abused millionaires, what are you doing to help with the drugs and gang wars that seem to be eating up the inner cities.
That’s far from repression or racism!

Terry Blue

08-27-2020, 10:09 AM

I wasn't thinking about white privilege when I was cleaning out horse and cattle stalls on the farm

Darryl

08-27-2020, 10:19 AM

Read this suck-up article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29746705/kentucky-basketball-coach-john-calipari-says-white-privilege-helped-life-career%3fplatform=amp

Darryl

ETWNAPPEL

08-27-2020, 10:29 AM

I applaud anyone willing to listen. The act of listening alone often takes care of an issue. To come out and say that he wouldn’t even listen would be tone deaf and not go over well with his team and recruits.

Darryl

08-27-2020, 10:34 AM

One good thing is these black activists have certainly been good listeners and fair with people who disagree with their agenda

Darryl

ukpumacat

08-27-2020, 10:40 AM

Its a complete no win situation for him. Its IMPOSSIBLE for him to "stay out of politics" in the way you all are defining it. Why? Because he is going to be asked about race issues. If speaking about race issues is politics...well, its impossible to stay out of it. Nothing he said is "political". He didn't speak about Republicans or Democrats or who to vote for. He simply talked about race issues. The issue is that now days...that's considered "politics". Therefore, nothing he says or doesn't say will be good enough.

If he does not answer...that's politics.
If he answers...that's politics.
If he says he wants the name changed...that's politics.
If he says he doesn't want the name changed...that's politics.
Saying, "I know the family and I don't see it but am willing to listen" is about as apolitical and down the middle as he can possibly be. It was a great answer. And yet, we still have this thread.

Is the issue that he is "involved in politics" or that he doesn't agree with everyone else's views on race relations/politics? I suspect the latter.

Because I'm guessing if he came out and said, "Rupp's name should not change period(a political statement according to this thread) and I was given no white privilege as I worked my tail off for everything I have been given (a political statement according to this thread)" he would be celebrated on here for speaking the truth and not giving into cancel culture.

I feel for the guy. There is no possible way to answer or even stay silent that is going to go over well. Either players and future recruits (and maybe his own conscience) will be pissed because of what he says or doesn't say...or many Kentucky fans will be pissed because of what he says or doesn't say.

Bakert

08-27-2020, 10:53 AM

I agree, politics has no business in sports.

I agree, but why then is it that over the past few months the threads that get the most attention are ones that are at the intersection of politics and sports?

I posted some comments/links Cal made about the upcoming season and there was not a single comment. That was about nothing but sports. This thread on the other hand has been veiwed almost 4 times as much. Don't misunderstand, I could not care less if people respond to things I write, but it would seem that if people really didn't want politics in their sports they would ignore threads like this.

Bakert

08-27-2020, 10:57 AM

Is the issue that he is "involved in politics" or that he doesn't agree with everyone else's views on race relations/politics? I suspect the latter.

Because I'm guessing if he came out and said, "Rupp's name should not change period(a political statement according to this thread) and I was given no white privilege as I worked my tail off for everything I have been given (a political statement according to this thread)" he would be celebrated on here for speaking the truth and not giving into cancel culture.

I feel for the guy. There is no possible way to answer or even stay silent that is going to go over well. Either players and future recruits (and maybe his own conscience) will be pissed because of what he says or doesn't say...or many Kentucky fans will be pissed because of what he says or doesn't say.

You are 100% correct, particularly with the bolded portion of your comments.

Harlow

08-27-2020, 12:14 PM

Just coach Cal

UKHistory

08-27-2020, 12:17 PM

I have to wonder if the nba stopped playing because of black on black violence would it make more of a difference?

I want to revisit police tactics, improve training, more testing to see if cops are burnt out, etc.

That said we all must obey police. That is unless we want armed revolution. I am serious.

Millionaires who don’t work won’t get paid. I won’t care.

CitizenBBN

08-27-2020, 12:21 PM

That's about the best reply he could possibly give.

Cal has had a weird relationship with UK basketball. He's embraced the UK traditions and programs in ways that were ignored or even shunned by Pitino and others, but he's simultaneously done a lot of harm in the eyes of many with the one and done and focus on recruiting and being a NBA stepping stone.

Here's a guy who makes sure Herky Rupp is at his announcement press conference when he's hired, yet I really don't even bother to learn about the players or even their names until the first game of the year b/c they're gone so fast I simply feel no need to invest in it.

It's a very strange contrast. He's lauded our tradition and not made himself bigger than the program at any point, but his approach has slowly gutted the insides IMO for many if not most fans.

If they take Rupp's name off I imagine for many his on court accomplishments will never make up for it, and his legacy at UK will be the damage he's done to the traditions, good bad or otherwise, of the program more than his success. Unless he stays long enough to win a couple of more titles at least.

Darrell KSR

08-27-2020, 12:41 PM

ukpumacat

08-27-2020, 12:42 PM

That's about the best reply he could possibly give.

I agree. I literally can't think of a better one.

Darryl

08-27-2020, 12:51 PM

Some really excellent post on this thread what I would like to see from Cal is for him to talk about how he has helped so many black families throughout his life and he has never been prejudiced at all.

That being said, he needs to distance himself from the terrorist group BLM as much as possible. They are nothing more than a white hating group of thugs hoping and trying to tear this country apart.

Darryl

catmanjack

08-27-2020, 12:55 PM

Forgot to mention that they are supported by the Democrats.

LakeCat

08-27-2020, 01:17 PM

The current NBA mantra of screaming for justice in America while embracing oppression in China leaves many on this board and across the USA with a severe urge to vomit. If their support for racial justice actually significantly affected their wallet you would hear crickets imo. That being said, Cal's fondness for everything NBA WILL cost him "goodwill capital" among the fanbase and he might be surprised how quickly that will escalate should this rename Rupp saga continue to linger.

ukpumacat

08-27-2020, 01:18 PM

Some really excellent post on this thread what I would like to see from Cal is for him to talk about how he has helped so many black families throughout his life and he has never been prejudiced at all.

Darryl

Darryl, I agree that he should celebrate the work he has done. And I think he does that well. He is in this awesome unique position to make a difference....and also to listen as he has a perspective most of us will never have. He has been all over this country and spent times in the homes of his players. He has listened to their stories ad nauseum and seen where they have come from and what they are up against. Because of his perspective, I am the first in line to want to listen to what he has to say. Frankly, I wish he would speak more, not less. I just think he has a knowledge and perspective that is incredibly important.

He's also an ace recruiter that has to be VERY careful not to say anything that will go viral and be used by opposing coaches to enforce the false narrative of UK being a racist school. Its why he can't be silent. Saying he will listen is the best possible response for both means.

StuBleedsBlue2

08-27-2020, 01:26 PM

Shut up and dribble...

Shut up and coach...

Keep speaking Cal! All coaches, athletes and ANY human being that has a platform and sees wrong in the world should have an opportunity to voice such. People should keep it up until every single person understands what white privilege means, accept they are beneficiaries and do what is necessary to eradicate it.

This whole shut up and... is an infringement on our basic rights of freedom of speech. If you don't like it, don't listen or participate. It's really that simple.

ukpumacat

08-27-2020, 01:30 PM

The current NBA mantra of screaming for justice in America while embracing oppression in China leaves many on this board and across the USA with a severe urge to vomit.

I'm not going to defend the NBA's dealings with China as they are big boys and girls and can speak for themselves. But does this not apply to us to?

How many on this board have posted about the NBA/China on a computer made in....wait for it...China? Or sitting on a chair or couch made there. In a pair of shoes made there. Shirts. Pants. Televisions. On and on and on.
We are all complicit.
80+% of our homes are filled with items made in China (or in sweatshops of other asian countries). Every single day I drive past a pop up (yes, even in California) where a guy sells Trump paraphernalia that was all made in China. As has been pointed out many times, his clothing line etc was made there.

And why do we all do this? Money. Its cheaper. Every single one of us could boycott it and choose not to do it. We could find the same type of products 100% made in America. But we don't. Because we want to save a buck or 20.
I'm not arguing the NBA isn't hypocritical or choosy with what "justice reform" they want to see. But, so are all of us.

CitizenBBN

08-27-2020, 01:51 PM

How many on this board have posted about the NBA/China on a computer made in....wait for it...China? Or sitting on a chair or couch made there. In a pair of shoes made there. Shirts. Pants. Televisions. On and on and on.
We are all complicit.
80+% of our homes are filled with items made in China (or in sweatshops of other asian countries). Every single day I drive past a pop up (yes, even in California) where a guy sells Trump paraphernalia that was all made in China. As has been pointed out many times, his clothing line etc was made there.

And why do we all do this? Money. Its cheaper. Every single one of us could boycott it and choose not to do it. We could find the same type of products 100% made in America. But we don't. Because we want to save a buck or 20.
I'm not arguing the NBA isn't hypocritical or choosy with what "justice reform" they want to see. But, so are all of us.

I'll bite.

No, it's not the same, and it's not being complicit. Simply put, it's nearly impossible to function without living with Chinese merchandise as a consumer. Your analogy is like saying someone doesn't support environmentalism if they use any plastic. Good luck with that on a daily basis unless you move to a cabin in the woods.

No one is even asking the NBA to not try to make money in the Chinese market. What they are asking for is the elimination of the hypocrisy where they focus on America being so evil and awful and then totally ignore human rights questions elsewhere. That's far different from me knowing China is our mortal enemy, something I've known since the 1980s, and still having to use things made in china b/c, well, I can't make my own refrigerator.

But the NBA CAN choose to either shut up about the awfulness of the US or call out the awfulness of China. They don't do it b/c of money, which leads me to believe that is also why you won't see a walkout over a weekend killing spree in Chicago's south side that kills and wounds as many minorities over a holiday weekend as all of the minorities who are so injured by police in many months. The perpetrators of those crimes, far more massive in number and in impact on minority communities, also buy $200 sneakers and t-shirts.

I know we need to work as a nation against the goals of the Chinese communists, but I can't afford to not have clothes or a computer or a car, so I live with some of it.

But when you catch me being a hypocrite about my moral positions you let me know, for money or otherwise. That's what the NBA has done, and many many people are sick of being lectured to about "privilege" from people in million dollar homes and even more sick of America, the nation that gave the modern world democracy and individual liberty and more wealth and prosperity in a more distributed way than any nation in human history, being described as an evil existence, while nations with true evil are not mentioned b/c those nations would quickly cut off the money.

There's no hypocrisy in surviving economically and still being utterly exhausted by being told you are evil and guilty and should be ashamed for your lifetime of hard work and success from the sweat of your own brow.

ukpumacat

08-27-2020, 01:55 PM

I'll bite.

No, it's not the same, and it's not being complicit. Simply put, it's nearly impossible to function without living with Chinese merchandise as a consumer. Your analogy is like saying someone doesn't support environmentalism if they use any plastic. Good luck with that on a daily basis unless you move to a cabin in the woods.

Its not. I have friends that do both. And I (we) could choose to do it FAR more than we do if we didn't care so much about money.

The NBA cares about money. The owners, players and league reps. So, they do business with China and ignore what goes on there. The players also care about racial equality in America. So, they speak out on it.

We care about money. So, we buy things from China and ignore what goes on there. We also care about politics/injustices in America. So, we speak out on it.

Darryl

08-27-2020, 01:58 PM

Its not. I have friends that do both. And I (we) could choose to do it FAR more than we do if we didn't care so much about money.

The NBA cares about money. The owners, players and league reps. So, they do business with China and ignore what goes on there. The players also care about racial equality in America. So, they speak out on it.

We care about money. So, we buy things from China and ignore what goes on there. We also care about politics/injustices in America. So, we speak out on it.

The majority of NBA players are far more racist than most of America, and they are very open about it. You know it and so does anyone with any objectivity.

Darryl

ukpumacat

08-27-2020, 02:02 PM

That's far different from me knowing China is our mortal enemy, something I've known since the 1980s, and still having to use things made in china b/c, well, I can't make my own refrigerator.

P.S. Even though if you took a deep dive you will find some of the parts are made outside of the US....here is a long standing American refrigerator brand that makes and manufactures their products right here in the USA.
https://www.subzero-wolf.com/company/our-heritage

ukpumacat

08-27-2020, 02:03 PM

The majority of NBA players are far more racist than most of America, and they are very open about it. You know it and so does anyone with any objectivity.

Darryl

I absolutely do not know that. I don't know how anyone could even measure such a thing.

Darryl

08-27-2020, 02:05 PM

I absolutely do not know that. I don't know how anyone could even measure such a thing.

But you somehow can measure white privilege. Got it.

Darryl

StuBleedsBlue2

08-27-2020, 02:07 PM

Calling a majority of people of color racist is as much as a crock of crap as I have ever read or heard, and that is saying A LOT in these days.

Anybody else see the message here? Fighting for equality is racist. It's not a unique thought. It's very prevalent, and it's why NBA players, coaches, etc. are not going to shut up and ...

There is no greater threat to implicit supremacy than thinking someone wants to take it from you. We are fighting for equality, NOT supremacy.

StuBleedsBlue2

08-27-2020, 02:08 PM

But you somehow can measure white privilege. Got it.

Darryl

There are SOOOOO many ways you can measure white privilege. Here's just one example...
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/25/realestate/blacks-minorities-appraisals-discrimination.html

ukpumacat

08-27-2020, 02:14 PM

But you somehow can measure white privilege. Got it.

Darryl

??? I haven't even used that phrase once in this thread.

Darryl

08-27-2020, 02:15 PM

[QUOTE=StuBleedsBlue2;649507]Calling a majority of people of color racist is as much as a crock of crap as I have ever read or heard, and that is saying A LOT in these days.

Anybody else see the message here? Fighting for equality is racist. It's not a unique thought. It's very prevalent, and it's why NBA players, coaches, etc. are not going to shut up and ...

There is no greater threat to implicit supremacy than thinking someone wants to take it from you. We are fighting for equality, NOT supremacy.[/QUOTE

You are comfortable calling the majority of white people racist, and you paint people with the broadest stoke of any poster on this board.

As for crap, Please read the majority of your posts. They are filled with racist rhetoric.

Darryl

Darryl

08-27-2020, 02:17 PM

??? I haven't even used that phrase once in this thread.

Fair, but have you used it before? I may be mixed up but white privilege is as offensive to me as using bad words to describe other races.

Darryl

catmanjack

08-27-2020, 02:19 PM

Disagree, what I witness with BLM they want to rule and being equal they will not be satisfied with.

Calling a majority of people of color racist is as much as a crock of crap as I have ever read or heard, and that is saying A LOT in these days.

Anybody else see the message here? Fighting for equality is racist. It's not a unique thought. It's very prevalent, and it's why NBA players, coaches, etc. are not going to shut up and ...

There is no greater threat to implicit supremacy than thinking someone wants to take it from you. We are fighting for equality, NOT supremacy.

catmanjack

08-27-2020, 02:20 PM

Funny Thing is America is made up of hard working people no matter the race and the ones protesting seem to want everything handed to them.

Doc

08-27-2020, 03:56 PM

I absolutely do not know that. I don't know how anyone could even measure such a thing.

Use the same method that is used to measure "systemic racism"

MickintheHam

08-27-2020, 04:11 PM

Its not. I have friends that do both. And I (we) could choose to do it FAR more than we do if we didn't care so much about money.

The NBA cares about money. The owners, players and league reps. So, they do business with China and ignore what goes on there. The players also care about racial equality in America. So, they speak out on it.

We care about money. So, we buy things from China and ignore what goes on there. We also care about politics/injustices in America. So, we speak out on it.

The problem is the NBA and its players were suppressing the freedom of speech of those speaking out against tyranny in order to protect their riches gained on the backs of the voiceless oppressed.

CitizenBBN

08-27-2020, 06:15 PM

Its not. I have friends that do both. And I (we) could choose to do it FAR more than we do if we didn't care so much about money.

The NBA cares about money. The owners, players and league reps. So, they do business with China and ignore what goes on there. The players also care about racial equality in America. So, they speak out on it.

We care about money. So, we buy things from China and ignore what goes on there. We also care about politics/injustices in America. So, we speak out on it.

So an "environmentalist" can care about what happens to the Mississippi river and protest Monsanto but work for a company that is clear burning the Amazon, and it's all OK.

Got it.

VirginiaCat

08-29-2020, 06:58 PM

kingcat

08-29-2020, 10:50 PM

it is not about equality. It is about having advantages that are greater than equality. That is the problem.

And that is also the proper definition of white privilege fwiw. No point to be made, only addressing the posts on the matter above.

CitizenBBN

08-29-2020, 11:26 PM

And that is also the proper definition of white privilege fwiw. No point to be made, only addressing the posts on the matter above.

Depends on who you ask.

"Bad" privilege would be an inequality before the law. Everyone should be equal before the law.

However, there are other "privileges" afforded to those with more means, not by the state but by the nature of having wealth, and some seem to think that's not OK either, which of course is pure crap. The whole idea of the American dream is to work hard and improve one's status and leave one's children better off.

I've seen the riots and looting cited as ways to address "white privilege". Property rights are not a racial issue, and are not a question of supremacy in the US, where property ownership is allowed to everyone and in fact the law on such is extremely well enforced to not be biased.

We should all be equal before the government, and treated the same under the law and in its enforcement. That is not the same as equality of outcomes economically.

Catonahottinroof

08-30-2020, 06:17 AM

Exactly. Opportunity should be the same, outcome cannot be. Simply because one person’s effort won’t be the same as another. Neither will timing or luck.
Depends on who you ask.

"Bad" privilege would be an inequality before the law. Everyone should be equal before the law.

However, there are other "privileges" afforded to those with more means, not by the state but by the nature of having wealth, and some seem to think that's not OK either, which of course is pure crap. The whole idea of the American dream is to work hard and improve one's status and leave one's children better off.

I've seen the riots and looting cited as ways to address "white privilege". Property rights are not a racial issue, and are not a question of supremacy in the US, where property ownership is allowed to everyone and in fact the law on such is extremely well enforced to not be biased.

We should all be equal before the government, and treated the same under the law and in its enforcement. That is not the same as equality of outcomes economically .

VirginiaCat

08-30-2020, 07:55 PM

And that is also the proper definition of white privilege fwiw. No point to be made, only addressing the posts on the matter above.

So you agree affirmative action should not exist?

kingcat

08-31-2020, 08:03 PM

So you agree affirmative action should not exist?

If I were in total denial of any such thing as white, black, religious, or any other privilege, or believed there is no such thing as racism systemic or otherwise, I'd still maintain that yours was the exact definition of the term "white privilege".
I have no desire to argue any point or I would have jumped in this discussion wholeheartedly.

But honestly, because many regular posters here have chosen to jump on everything I post, I have avoided getting into the meat of any issues.

I will answer like this. In some situations I would disagree with the results of affirmative action, and in others I can see the need for it. It can seem overused and abused, but in theory is an necessity in forming an inclusive society.
On a similar front, desegregation was one of the greatest advances in the history of this country wouldn't you agree? But I could always understand many of the issues with it and how it unfairly affected some people.

It should not have been required, but the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of those who continued to oppress a certain people for the color of their skin for nearly two hundred years. In a sense I feel the same about affirmative action. It is unfair in many instances and should have never been necessary in a civilized society.
But it was, and may still be...if only to promote a social change similar to desegregation.
I'll also say I have always agreed that the college coaching fraternity in both football and basketball, is an area not even close to fairly representing minorities. Especially relative to their dominant numbers on the court and field of play.
I believe the disparity there is obvious.
And I imagine there are other positive examples..as well as arguments against.

I do not know the current statistics for open enrollment schools versus selective institutions and how minorities are currently represented. Or I would comment further. Fwiw, I am sympathetic to the causes of minorities..but I am far from an activist or being qualified to argue things like affirmative action. Heck I had to remind myself what it was.
It's never discussed in guitar player magazine. :)

But in my meager home and before God, I stand firmly with Coach Cal, our players, and the peaceful protesters across this country.
https://twitter.com/UKCoachCalipari/status/1300604712044163075?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3AMyKSR1&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kysportsreport.com%2Fforu ms%2Fforum.php