Something I once read

[CitizenBBN]

"They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."

(What made me think of it is they tore down General Grant's statue in San Fran today. You know, the guy who fought and defeated the Confederacy, as President signed the 15th Amendment and other acts to insure rights for minorities, prosecuted and pursued the KKK during Reconstruction, etc.)

[Doc]

Odds are the people who tore it down have no idea who Grant was or what he did. Possibly they did not know it was a statue of Grant. All they saw was something to destroy.

[KeithKSR]

Odds are the people who tore it down have no idea who Grant was or what he did. Possibly they did not know it was a statue of Grant. All they saw was something to destroy.

I think tHey destroyed it because it was a statue of a white guy. Odds are they have no idea who Grant was.

[CitizenBBN]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-museum-of-natural-history-teddy-roosevelt-statue-removing

Mt. Rushmore will look funny with the crop top that is coming. Will look like a coal mining operation when they're done.

[CitizenBBN]

I think tHey destroyed it because it was a statue of a white guy. Odds are they have no idea who Grant was.

Apparently at one time he technically sort of owned slaves. He married into a slaveholding family and for a time in Missouri did manage a farm with slaves. But his father was a devout abolitionist and Grant never wanted to own slaves and it's well reported he worked in the fields just like any hand.

At some point that is not well known he came into ownership of a slave who he then emancipated. There is record of the emancipation but not much on how he got him. He was likely given through his in laws family IMO.

Regardless, Grant was never pro-slavery, was an abolitionist by his time as General, and has a record as long as anyone of work as President to bring rights to minorities.

But in this atmosphere of Cultural Revolution they will drag people out in the streets who just a while ago were heroes of the same cause. It's very much the Chinese Maoist Cultural Revolution, where Mao turned the masses loose on even those who supported Communism, b/c of some transgression or not supporting it quite enough.

Rupp too will fall to this standard, where we take a ruler forged in the present and apply it as a litmus test to people who lived decades and even centuries ago. Even men who, by their times, were considered progressive, will be brought down for not being progressive enough by modern standards.

[UKHistory]

I totally get this. While some what justice today (and that is a goal we should all have and do--the question being what would "justice" look like) there are clearly anarchists in the protests who would destroy the country and all of our institutions.

First no statue should be toppled or vandalized by a mob. Communities should vote. There also needs to be some parameters of what statues should even be considered for removal. The line should be anyone who fought to overthrow the government of the United States.

Natan Bedford Forest? I am not crying if the founder of the KKK loses his statue. But John Breckinridge Castleman who renounced his Confederate allegiance and went onto serve in the US Army during the Spanish American war? The statue should stay.

There are some in these movements that would work to overthrow the government of the United States, our economic system and our social system.

There is a lot to be said for those imperfect institutions.

Gulp. Trump and who ever says antifa is a terrorist organization are correct.

[UKHistory]

Rupp too will fall to this standard, where we take a ruler forged in the present and apply it as a litmus test to people who lived decades and even centuries ago. Even men who, by their times, were considered progressive, will be brought down for not being progressive enough by modern standards.

That is the great danger and with the destruction of Grant's statue, much more realistic. If UK turns it back on Rupp or Cal's players publicly attack Rupp and there is a failure to discipline them, I am done.

And that is big a thing for me to say. So much of life is devoted to UK Basketball. It is why and so many write on this site.

Terrible day if the attack is not met and pushed back.

[CitizenBBN]

Add Matthias Baldwin to the list. Didn't know him but he was a Philadelphia abolitionist who supported voting rights for minorities. He was apparently guilty of being a "colonizer" and "murderer".

Other memorials defaced includes one in boston to honor African American soldiers who fought for the Union, and one in Duluth that memorialized 3 black men wrongly lynched by a mob. Also one of a Polish hero of the Revolutionary War, etc.