Ironic; Folks Who Hate Police Most Need Them Most; Those Respecting Most/Least

[Darryl]

Let the Police all walk off the job and the Anti-gun Liberals, inner city high crime areas would find out quickly how vital the Police officers are.

Supporters of the police/Conservatives generally KNOW and appreciate them. We are fully capable of self-defense but still rest easier knowing help is a 911 call away.

The people I feel the worst for are the older folks living in the high crime areas that are very good people. And there’s a bunch of them.

Darryl

[UKHistory]

Why is that Darryl. Is it maybe because those need them interact with them not as relatives or friends but as subjugated people by an occupied force?

And if I was confronted with loud, obnoxious, violent criminal behavior day in and day out I would be jaded and suspicious and look at folks as the enemy too.

Law enforcement is a tough job. We have militarized the police and that is a disservice to them. Over the years we have raised issues about EPA, USDA, ED having swat like teams. Rand Paul has criticized this.

We have seen DHS provide grans for heavy armored vehicles to communities of every size. We have talked about the dangers of this.

We have decried civil forfeiture and denounced the abuse of the FBI against Flynn.

Law enforcement at every level is critical. We need to be respectful and thankful for those on the frontline.

This respect, however, should not give a blank check to bad behavior. We have a president who belittled police who were to suspects as they are arrested. Trump dismissed the notion that cops should be nice. I won’t quote him but trump encouraged p9lice to be aggressive with suspects.

There is no place for looting and rioting under the guise of protected speech.

But as we watch from the Rodney king beating to George Floyd people on both political sides agree the behavior is bad.

What about the behavior not caught on tape? It makes people wonder.

Braenna Taylor’s home was raided without notice. And without the police identifying themselves. Her boyfriend exercised his second amendment right to defend the home and the police killed the woman.

We have read similar stories about elderly white people and others.

Mistakes happen but these mistakes cannot easily corrected.

I am thankful for the law and those who implement the law for society’s good. But proper oversight is needed. Police holding one another accountable is critical.

It is about serve and protect; not search and destroy.

[Doc]

Maybe its because they see them as occupying force rather than public servants. Most police officers, by a large large majority are there to protect and serve. Occasionally you get a bad apple. Unfortunately that happens, but I would wagger they encounter more bad apples in their jobs daily than the "subjugated" do in years worth of interaction with the police. Of course that is no excuse for what was done in Minneapolis. Nothing justifies that...but neither does that justify random killing of LEOs or vandizing/stealing and violence. The carnage by looters over the last week has far outdone any brutality that the police have carried out.

For me, the people of the communities reap what the sow. You accept a crimminal element and you get a crimminal element

[StuBleedsBlue2]

No one is asking for the police to go away. We are asking for them to treat everyone equally and when they don't to not cover up for one another and hold them accountable, not some of the time, but ALL of the time.

The whole idea of "a few bad apples" is completely not supported by the data. To be honest, though, I'm not even sure what that phrase means. Even if that were a reality, there is a cover-up that the "good apples", simply by looking the other way, are complicit.

I don't get that argument that is implied here, well if you don't like the way things are now, then imagine a life without them. What is wrong with simply demanding equality and accountability?

[Doc]

Show us that data

In this case there was no cover up. Guy is charged with second degre muder and the otther three with accessory to murder

[Crazy4Blue]

Stu, we have thousands upon thousands of police officers in America. Even if you gave examples of 100 bad police officers, that's a few bad apples. The truth is most black people by a large margin are good people, most white people by a large margin are good people, most cops by a large margin are good people. We love to focus on the small percentage and group everyone in to those categories because it's convenient. We need to identify those small trouble areas and keep everyone else out of those categories. All the people getting hurt in all this, emotionally or physically seem to be the good people.

[catmanjack]

Searching for an agenda any data can be found to support that agenda.

[catmanjack]

All lives matter, each individual has the same opportunity as the other.
Why do some constantly put themselves in a position as the gentleman in Minnesota, he was causing a disruption that lead to his unfortunate encounter with this scum of a cop, stop being criminals and lead productive lives that’s what I hope for.

[UKHistory]

If we were generally good people we would not need laws. We all have rights and those rights should be protected

Believing 100% for the need for good police officers and procedures doesn’t keep me from wanting people held accountable.

It is a tough job. It might feel thankless. Supporting the police or the military doesn’t mean we don’t want to ensure they do right and own up to mistakes.

All professions doctors, teachers, coaches you name it will support the group in the face of a lot criticism.

We need people within law enforcement to stand up For what is right.

Honestly I think the police did. All across the country we saw the establishment denounce the death of George Floyd.

Now there is suspicion that charges would not be filed against all 4 without video evidence and the protests.

But the law moved swiftly and accurately to charge all four guys. That is progress. These officers screwed up and were quickly dealt with.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Stu, we have thousands upon thousands of police officers in America. Even if you gave examples of 100 bad police officers, that's a few bad apples. The truth is most black people by a large margin are good people, most white people by a large margin are good people, most cops by a large margin are good people. We love to focus on the small percentage and group everyone in to those categories because it's convenient. We need to identify those small trouble areas and keep everyone else out of those categories. All the people getting hurt in all this, emotionally or physically seem to be the good people.

I'm not questioning whether cops are good people or not, and I am not going to be the person that decides what the criteria is for saying who is a good person. My father-in-law is a retired Chicago police sergeant, an ex-Marine and an attorney. He is a loving father, grandfather, husband and has always been kind and respectful to me and my family. From any outsiders perspective, he's a good man. I respect and appreciate the great qualities he possesses. He's also a horrific racist. Those qualities can coexist.

What I AM saying is that good people can perform their jobs poorly or have other issues that are root causes for larger problems. My father-in-law will be the first to admit that there is a culture among cops to protect one another. You don't snitch. So while so many cops may do things by the book and perceive to be "good cops", if they participate in the culture to protect one another, willingly or not, they are complicit in the actions of the few bad apples. I don't know how you can separate that as so many are asking us to do. The law doesn't separate. It says you don't actually have to commit THE crime to be guilty of another crime, which is why we all applaud the arrest and charges of the other 4 officers.

I will say, though, it warms my heart to see so many cops take a knee, comfort and console protesters and show compassion and empathy. It slightly offsets the horrible images of the murders, the beatings of the press and peaceful protesters that I have seen video after video in the past week. I am also warmed by the local law enforcement leaders and mayors have recommitted themselves to implementing the policies of the Task Force on 21st Century Policing (https://cops.usdoj.gov/pdf/taskforce/taskforce_finalreport.pdf) that Trump so proudly abandoned.

There is an excellent article on 538 today that I can reference in various conversations circulating on this board recently, but I will highlight one thing that is so important:

'The police are more male and white than the country as a whole'.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-police-see-issues-of-race-and-policing/


Finally, I'm not disagreeing with you that black, white, cops are fundamentally good people (although as mentioned, what is that criteria?), but if that is true, then why are people of color disproportionately target and feel the greater wrath of justice?

[KeithKSR]

No one is asking for the police to go away.

That is completely erroneous. There are calls from the radical left to abolish the police, defund the police, etc., the protests are littered with signs proclaiming this objective. If you do not realize this is going on you need to call into question your sources for news and information.

https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/06/police-abolition-george-floyd/

https://www.themarshallproject.org/records/3382-police-abolition

There is no question that there needs to be reform. There have been too many instances where needless restraint for prolonged periods has resulted in death. There are too many instances of lost lives of innocent people when no knock warrants have been used.

The current push by some to abolish police would have a devastating effect and lead to anarchy, which is the goal.

[dan_bgblue]

That is completely erroneous. There are calls from the radical left to abolish the police, defund the police, etc., the protests are littered with signs proclaiming this objective. If you do not realize this is going on you need to call into question your sources for news and information.

https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/06/police-abolition-george-floyd/

https://www.themarshallproject.org/records/3382-police-abolition

There is no question that there needs to be reform. There have been too many instances where needless restraint for prolonged periods has resulted in death. There are too many instances of lost lives of innocent people when no knock warrants have been used.

The current push by some to abolish police would have a devastating effect and lead to anarchy, which is the goal.

https://www.wkyt.com/content/news/Lexington-police-adds-another-layer-of-supervision-over-no-knock-warrants-571014991.html

[KeithKSR]

https://www.wkyt.com/content/news/Lexington-police-adds-another-layer-of-supervision-over-no-knock-warrants-571014991.html


That policy also states that uniformed officers must continually announce that they are police once they are inside. Louisville police have said they identified themselves, but Taylor’s neighbors said they never heard anything like that the night she was killed.


This is a huge issue for me. Joe Citizen is sound asleep, then awakened by the sound of someone forcing their way into Joe Citizen’s home. If I am Joe Citizen I’m not thinking it’s the police, but someone out to harm my family, so I grab a weapon and act to defend my family.

[Catonahottinroof]

Because that segment of the population commits more crime than the averages say it should. Census estimates to date by race:
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/IPE120218

FBI crime stats by year...
2017
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

2018
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-43

2019 is still only a partial report and I can’t find the complete one. Someone may know how to get it, but I don’t.




Finally, I'm not disagreeing with you that black, white, cops are fundamentally good people (although as mentioned, what is that criteria?), but if that is true,then why are people of color disproportionately target and feel the greater wrath of justice?

[kingcat]

Our conversations on the matter are fruitless and uninformed without the input of our Black friends being represented. We do not know the extent of their experiences nor do we see things from their perspective. That's because most racial interactions by far are not news worthy and are more often privately expressed.

On the other hand the overwhelming majority naturally and conveniently (and in many instances willingly) overlook the minority. That's because they subconsciously are comfortable with the support the (supposed) majority affords them.
We tend to puff up our opinions of things we have limited knowledge of by agreeing to pick our preferred arguments. Useless.

We all have many Black friends and I would suggest we either invite them, or else agree that none of us really understand the issue fully. because honestly....we don't. We understand parts of it and ignore what we haven't experienced.

I personally test my opinions by asking myself if they are suitable for all the folks of color I know. And for the fine young Black men who have represented the team and sport I love to follow. They are the young men and women who have shown what they are made of by how they represent the university and us. I find it impossible to dismiss their views on this matter, and we all know exactly what those views are.
Common sense then should tell us it's time to listen and not preach contempt and disregard for their opinions.

So, if our opinions would not be well received by them, then it almost assures that either "we" are overlooking something important, "they" are doing so, or something else I cannot fathom.
Its never too late for whomever, to come to the light however. Only God knows all our hearts.

The best we can do is realize the problem needs addressing one way or the other..and agree to work towards a mutually beneficial end that assures liberty and justice for all equally under the law. And neither Red, Yellow, Black, or White folks can or should address it unilaterally.

And don't take this wrong but, generally speaking the only other alternative is to condone and ignore racism.

[catmanjack]

Oh now I get tired of hearing that, life is tough on everyone period!
Each person no matter the color or race has the same opportunity to get themselves out of a tough spot.

[kingcat]

Oh now I get tired of hearing that, life is tough on everyone period!
Each person no matter the color or race has the same opportunity to get themselves out of a tough spot.

In general, your last statement is blatantly false. Sorry.

The rich have an advantage...thats why we all would like to be rich. ;)

If you or I were lost in Harlem after midnight...well lets just say a local has a distinct advantage over us..

Neither do I believe a White man would have been murdered in broad daylight in Minnesota by those cops.

Thing is, the percentage of bad people is the same no matter the color of their skin, whatever that percentage may be.
A certain percentage of Whites are racist or just bad eggs in general

And a similar percentage of Black's are the same.

And so on..

So, one can safely assume that with an obvious majority there is in arguably a disproportionate amount of racism aimed at the distinct minority. Unless one believes one group is morally superior to the other.

Given that fact, and the fact that our Constitution demands each individual be afforded equal rights by law, it is then our responsibility to see that the law is entirely balanced against such events as we have witnessed happening with the proper checks and balances.
I feel we are making good head way by showing a willingness to prosecute and hold accountable those in law enforcement who have often gone unchecked. And in doing so eventually making the job of law enforcement easier for the many heroic professionals out on the street.

How to accomplish all that and assure all the bad eggs are rendered powerless is certainly up for debate. That we must try is not.

[catmanjack]

And again I disagree with them not having equal opportunities.
Maybe statements like that enable some.

[catmanjack]

Being rich has zero to do with color or race.
Just seems like an excuse to me.

[Catonahottinroof]

Agree with much of the above Kingcat. I’m not black and can’t relate to that struggle. My daughter and I talked about this yesterday. She attends the Citadel in South Carolina for school. There is a segment of that schools population that feels women shouldn’t be on that campus and she feels that when it comes up there. I told her that is a similar feeling that blacks feel when white racism exists.
There all good and bad people across all spectrums of life.

[UKHistory]

The video of a 75 year old white guy being knocked down is a incredibly strong image. On a good note, it. SHow’s police can be abusive to all Americans.

[catmanjack]

And I stand by the comment that every individual guides his/her life to achieve their fullest abilities.
Do I know how their lives are no but they do not know mine either.
Just today on the news there was a little girl maybe 6 protesting now do you think she fully understands or is doing what her parents told her. Racism can be taught and trained without individuals knowing or ever feeling any racist behavior which in my mind is just complete anger and dislike.
I promise black to white racism is just as strong as white to black.

[KeithKSR]

In general, your last statement is blatantly false. Sorry.

The rich have an advantage...thats why we all would like to be rich. ;)

If you or I were lost in Harlem after midnight...well lets just say a local has a distinct advantage over us..

Neither do I believe a White man would have been murdered in broad daylight in Minnesota by those cops.

Thing is, the percentage of bad people is the same no matter the color of their skin, whatever that percentage may be.
A certain percentage of Whites are racist or just bad eggs in general

And a similar percentage of Black's are the same.

And so on..

So, one can safely assume that with an obvious majority there is in arguably a disproportionate amount of racism aimed at the distinct minority. Unless one believes one group is morally superior to the other.

Given that fact, and the fact that our Constitution demands each individual be afforded equal rights by law, it is then our responsibility to see that the law is entirely balanced against such events as we have witnessed happening with the proper checks and balances.
I feel we are making good head way by showing a willingness to prosecute and hold accountable those in law enforcement who have often gone unchecked. And in doing so eventually making the job of law enforcement easier for the many heroic professionals out on the street.

How to accomplish all that and assure all the bad eggs are rendered powerless is certainly up for debate. That we must try is not.

An interesting discussion was on the news last night with an African-American professor at NKU. He spoke on the number of these incidents being low overall, and lower than expected when considering the percentages of violent crime committed by race.

Anyone that thinks these types of incidents do not happen to white people need to view this video of Tony Timpa being taken into custody.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-E_i8Q5G0

[KeithKSR]

The video of a 75 year old white guy being knocked down is a incredibly strong image. On a good note, it. SHow’s police can be abusive to all Americans.

Two things that disturbed me about the video. First, was the force used to shove the man. He was shoved much harder than necessary if the goal was to create distance, and didn’t need shoved at all if the desire was to get him moving in the opposite direction. Second, aid should have been given after he fell, especially given the fact that bleeding from the ear is indicates a possible head injury.

[UKHistory]

What we are seeing is all too many instances of excessive force by police.

It is an impossible job in many ways. But we have regular condemnation of police behavior by civilian authority but the actions happen again and again.

This isn’t just bad apples.

[Catonahottinroof]

Exactly

What we are seeing is all too many instances of excessive force by police.

It is an impossible job in many ways. But we have regular condemnation of police behavior by civilian authority but the actions happen again and again.

This isn’t just bad apples.

[KeithKSR]

What we are seeing is all too many instances of excessive force by police.

It is an impossible job in many ways. But we have regular condemnation of police behavior by civilian authority but the actions happen again and again.

This isn’t just bad apples.

Part of it is a numbers game. A lot of these officers in urban areas see multiple confrontations daily, adrenaline is going to be jacked up. From a percentage view as a police officer you are far more likely to end up dead at the hands of a citizen than to have an unarmed citizen killed by you. Most deaths, by a large percentage, come when perps are armed.

[UKHistory]

I get that. Something we need to take into consideration when we discuss police abuse

Most of these protesters are not armed. Police are not outnumbered. I even understand the police in NY that ran through the protesters.

You cannot surround a vehicle and throw things. If you do those inside need to drive away.

Tough for all parties.

[KeithKSR]

I get that. Something we need to take into consideration when we discuss police abuse

Most of these protesters are not armed. Police are not outnumbered. I even understand the police in NY that ran through the protesters.

You cannot surround a vehicle and throw things. If you do those inside need to drive away.

Tough for all parties.

Police and the bad actors are heavily outnumbered by those protesting, which is how Antifa, the anarchists, etc. like it. The bad actors use the legitimate protestors as cover and incite violence. From Saturday to Tuesday there were 114 law enforcement officers injured in Washington DC, most injuries were incurred through the throwing of bricks, frozen water bottles, etc.

[kingcat]

And again I disagree with them not having equal opportunities.
Maybe statements like that enable some.

I think we are just talking about two different things. You and I have the opportunity to apply for membership in the most exclusive clubs in the country..but as for me at least that opportunity would be only a formality and not reflective of reality.

Not the best example I admit.

[catmanjack]

See but that example is not in reality a possibility for even us, so do I protest or break things?

[Catonahottinroof]

That situation you describe is exempt from most of us who can’t write a $100K donation to that exclusive club...you are describing “rich” privilege
I think we are just talking about two different things. You and I have the opportunity to apply for membership in the most exclusive clubs in the country..but as for me at least that opportunity would be only a formality and not reflective of reality.

Not the best example I admit.

[kingcat]

That situation you describe is exempt from most of us who can’t write a $100K donation to that exclusive club...you are describing “rich” privilege

But those are opportunities. And they have nothing to do with the discussion of racial profiling or discrimination of and by any race, gender, religion, etc. If I was making any point other than that it would be that there is racial bias, class bias, as well as many other forms that those in the majority can squelch.

What opportunity did the man have which would have enabled him to avoid dying under the foot of authority?

[Catonahottinroof]

Being that I wasn’t there to hear what was said or see the warrant or hear the discussions prior, I can’t answer that, nor can anyone that posts here. I can’t just chalk it up to a racist cop. It may have been that, but a power hungry, put you in your place, bad cop was definitely on display in the video.
But those are opportunities. And they have nothing to do with the discussion of racial profiling or discrimination of and by any race, gender, religion, etc. If I was making any point other than that it would be that there is racial bias, class bias, as well as many other forms that those in the majority can squelch.

What opportunity did the man have which would have enabled him to avoid dying under the foot of authority?

[kingcat]

Being that I wasn’t there to hear what was said or see the warrant or hear the discussions prior, I can’t answer that, nor can anyone that posts here. I can’t just chalk it up to a racist cop. It may have been that, but a power hungry, put you in your place, bad cop was definitely on display in the video.

That's a possibility. But it's more likely race had something to do with the brazenness of the act with witnesses on the scene however.

But he did have a rep'..

"Chauvin joined the Minneapolis Police Academy in 2001 and has been the subject of at least 12 complaints, which involve use-of-force incidents as well as a lawsuit over the alleged violation of a prisoner’s constitutional rights"

..NBC

[kingcat]

See but that example is not in reality a possibility for even us, so do I protest or break things?

It's like the protests a couple of years ago when the a man was arrested and charged with murder after a car rammed into a group of people peacefully protesting against a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, killing one person and injuring 19.
I actually was scolded here for saying that white supremacists shouldn't be allowed to rally and protest, and was implored by a few different people not to lump all the group in with the few bad apples.

I believe even the president claimed there were some good people exercising their rights on both sides.

[Catonahottinroof]

You are making assumptions that the facts don’t support..not yet anyway. I read the CNN report on him and they note 18 times he has complaints filed against him, 2 of which resulted in disciplinary action. I’m sure the complaints will all become public during discovery and if he displayed a racist influence per the compaints, Minneapolis PD will be named in a civil lawsuit for not terminating him....I’m certain.


That's a possibility. But it's more likely race had something to do with the brazenness of the act with witnesses on the scene however.

But he did have a rep'..

"Chauvin joined the Minneapolis Police Academy in 2001 and has been the subject of at least 12 complaints, which involve use-of-force incidents as well as a lawsuit over the alleged violation of a prisoner’s constitutional rights"

..NBC

[kingcat]

No assumption made whatsoever in that post Cat.

Only the assumption that as his superior stated, that is an unusually high number of complaints very likely supporting one or the other vicious scenarios each of us put forward.

To be clear, this instance of police brutality, (and possible racial motivation) is not the end all in supporting current racist issues being discussed across the country by every one. (addressed below)
Most notably they were discussed today by our UK football program participating in the Black Lives Matter protest.

As well as Coach Cal's part in the NABC webinar today where he stated he has asked NBA security officials to speak to his players about ways to react when they're stopped by the police.

So I am not anyone who needs to be convinced, nor someone who seeks to convince anyone.
Like them (and I do believe they are being genuine, I see the concerns as being very real and obvious. And those I mention, the UK coaches that is, are as much or more qualified than anyone here to speak to the seriousness of the matter.

** As a matter of fact the Arbery's case was buried by local police and justice officials. Bryan's video of the shooting leaked to the media on May 5.
Only after the case sparked nationwide anger, was it passed on to state investigators.

That, or the young lady murdered in her home in Louisville may be a better example for doubters.

[kingcat]

Just so everyone knows. This isnt a political issue for me at all as some here already know. It is an issue that hits home with me in a rather heartfelt way. And I have made it known here periodically on the message boards since the first time I posted at Wildcatchat.

I've experienced blatant racism myself up close and personal here in Kentucky. One instance was when performing at the annual State KBA party in the Nineties, helping to hide a Black bass player (for the headlining band) who when he took the stage the color of his skin then caused a riot to stir with at least a hundred individuals determined to make an "example" of him. This was an event of five thousand plus. They were a successful group and he was a courteous well spoken young man. We musicians managed to hide (lie) and protect this talented young man enough so that he could escape.
The fear he displayed was life changing for all of us.

And there are even more personal instances that left me angered at not only the inherent racism others displayed, but my own inability to speak up like a man should and address it. Instead I lost a very good musician friend who was also a dedicated Christian.

Add that to knowing racism is as common in rural Kentucky as it is everywhere else. "They" and "Them" and "We" and "Us" are still required words when a Black person is discussed.
I have witnessed it first hand and I can assure everyone..it most certainly does. I have a large family and I have a handful of cousins that would embarrass everyone here if they chimed in.

Anyway, I didnt want anyone to think my views are politically motivated and I actually have no clue what I'm talking about. My father because of his love of God overcame his ingrained prejudices over time, and the stories he could tell would send chills down your spine. I recall the other side of the tracks in Vine Grove when I was a young person. Vine Grove then was a small downtown area in a small valley and as you start up the hill there are railroad tracks. Blacks would gather on the upper side of the tracks at night and Whites would have downtown. I was told of unreported hangings and beatings that took place back in the fifties when a person of color was caught out of "their place". Even through the sixties Blacks did not cross the tracks to downtown but instead stayed in what I grew up calling N-Town which I thought was its actual town name as a young person. I still get a little sick thinking of it.

What I'm saying is, if I can tell such stories that should chill any Christian man to the bone, and have experienced such racist things as a 64 year old White dude, how can I not be sensitive to the effect the past still has on a group of people lived through that, and pretend that it doesn't exist now. And yes, Ive heard all the race jokes throughout my life and usually kept quiet to avoid arguments.

I cant say if any one of you here have witnessed it first hand or not, but I'd be very surprised if not. Perhaps they are stories that need to be told by all of us when discussing racial issues like this.

But mainly, I wanted to make clear where I am coming from.

[Catonahottinroof]

Understand completely!

Just so everyone knows. This isnt a political issue for me at all as some here already know. It is an issue that hits home with me in a rather heartfelt way. And I have made it known here periodically on the message boards since the first time I posted at Wildcatchat.

I've experienced blatant racism myself up close and personal here in Kentucky. One instance was when performing at the annual State KBA party in the Nineties, helping to hide a Black bass player (for the headlining band) who when he took the stage the color of his skin then caused a riot to stir with at least a hundred individuals determined to make an "example" of him. This was an event of five thousand plus. They were a successful group and he was a courteous well spoken young man. We musicians managed to hide (lie) and protect this talented young man enough so that he could escape.
The fear he displayed was life changing for all of us.

And there are even more personal instances that left me angered at not only the inherent racism others displayed, but my own inability to speak up like a man should and address it. Instead I lost a very good musician friend who was also a dedicated Christian.

Add that to knowing racism is as common in rural Kentucky as it is everywhere else. "They" and "Them" and "We" and "Us" are still required words when a Black person is discussed.
I have witnessed it first hand and I can assure everyone..it most certainly does. I have a large family and I have a handful of cousins that would embarrass everyone here if they chimed in.

Anyway, I didnt want anyone to think my views are politically motivated and I actually have no clue what I'm talking about. My father because of his love of God overcame his ingrained prejudices over time, and the stories he could tell would send chills down your spine. I recall the other side of the tracks in Vine Grove when I was a young person. Vine Grove then was a small downtown area in a small valley and as you start up the hill there are railroad tracks. Blacks would gather on the upper side of the tracks at night and Whites would have downtown. I was told of unreported hangings and beatings that took place back in the fifties when a person of color was caught out of "their place". Even through the sixties Blacks did not cross the tracks to downtown but instead stayed in what I grew up calling N-Town which I thought was its actual town name as a young person. I still get a little sick thinking of it.

What I'm saying is, if I can tell such stories that should chill any Christian man to the bone, and have experienced such racist things as a 64 year old White dude, how can I not be sensitive to the effect the past still has on a group of people lived through that, and pretend that it doesn't exist now. And yes, Ive heard all the race jokes throughout my life and usually kept quiet to avoid arguments.

I cant say if any one of you here have witnessed it first hand or not, but I'd be very surprised if not. Perhaps they are stories that need to be told by all of us when discussing racial issues like this.

But mainly, I wanted to make clear where I am coming from.