Nancy has decided she can tell the Senate lawmakers how to do their jobs

[dan_bgblue]

I do not think the Senate is going to look fondly on her trying to manage their side of the swamp.

SNL should be crawling all over this (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconnell-rips-pelosi-for-impeachment-delay-says-dems-afraid-to-transmit-shoddy-articles)

[dan_bgblue]

This would be funny twere it not so sad (https://nypost.com/2019/12/18/nancy-pelosis-stomach-turning-impeachment-charade-damages-america-goodwin/)

[CitizenBBN]

So do we impeach Pelosi? She's clearly violating the Constitution, which is very clear that the House makes its own rules, the senate makes its own rules, and in an impeachment the House prosecutes and the Senate holds the trial.

To hold up the articles is absolutely as unconstitutional as anything Trump is accused of doing. She has absolutely no authority to hold them up or to "negotiate" with the Senate for anything. The Senate didn't negotiate with her when she set the rules of the House.

The brazenness of the politics of this process are shocking, and will be our national undoing if it continues. People want to blame Trump as if he's some existential threat to democracy, but it has been the emotional, irrational response to him that is the threat.

This was sold as needing to happen NOW b/c of the massive threat, yet there's no hurry to actually try to stop him now?

This move will blow up in Pelosi's face IMO, b/c it exposes just how insincere this has been. The Hubris of her trying to "negotiate" with the Senate in this process is dumbfounding.

This isn't just politics. This is politics on steroids, where people make absurd speeches about doing the will of the Founders, while basically dancing on their graves.

[Catfan73]

She’s a wily old broad. She’s going to sit on this until she can count enough votes in the Senate to inflict some real damage or at least keep McConnell from burying it.

[Catonahottinroof]

She will be sitting on it till the 12th of never and will be seen as the obstructionist in this scenario.
She’s a wily old broad. She’s going to sit on this until she can count enough votes in the Senate to inflict some real damage or at least keep McConnell from burying it.

[dan_bgblue]

So do we impeach Pelosi? She's clearly violating the Constitution, which is very clear that the House makes its own rules, the senate makes its own rules, and in an impeachment the House prosecutes and the Senate holds the trial.

I would not spend the tax dollars in such an endeavor. I would park her arse on her broom with a one way ticket for Cali and say buhby.

[dan_bgblue]

Who in heck elected the house of representatives as guardians of fair play? (https://www.foxnews.com/media/rep-eric-swalwell-nancy-pelosi-mitch-mcconnell-impeachment-senate)

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., is withholding the two articles of impeachment passed in the House until she gets "assurances from the Senate," Rep. Eric Swalwell, D-Calif., said Thursday.

Appearing on "Outnumbered: Overtime" with host Harris Faulkner, the former 2020 presidential candidate said that Pelosi wants to make sure that when the articles are sent over, there's no "predetermined rigged outcome."

"This is about fairness, and she hasn't spoken to specific witnesses. She's spoken to a fair trial," he said.

"I think the surprise is that Senator [Mitch] McConnell [R-Ky.] is not representing fairness because he is admitting that he is anything but impartial," said Swalwell.

Did the Democrats take a vow of impartiality when they started the impeachment process in the House, and can Pelosi say, with a straight face, to the American people that she knows the House proceedings were done in a fair manner?

[CitizenBBN]

She will be sitting on it till the 12th of never and will be seen as the obstructionist in this scenario.

Exactly. This one is a dog loser for her. She has no leverage. McConnell could care less if she sends them or doesn't. The longer she refuses to send them the worse she'll look given how insanely urgent it was supposed to be to act, and meanwhile Trump will run against the impeachment quite happily.

They don't see a need for a GOP trial to respond to impeachment b/c impeachment just didn't take hold, and is in fact slowly backfiring in key states. It has no leverage b/c it's really not a burden to Trump at this point.

The House got to set its rules. THe Senate gets to set theirs. It's in the constitution that way pretty explicitly, and the House doesn't get to sit on something as serious impeachment articles and negotiate terms. She can of course, but it will only hurt her and lose what little "umph" impeachment ever had in the first place.

And Mitch is pretty wiley too, he's held the leadership spot longer than Pelosi,and he knows how to maneuver. She may not want to tangle with him when she has such a bad hand and no way to bluff.

[Catfan73]

Regardless of the fact everyone knows that Trump won’t actually be removed, I think McConnell (and Graham) screwed up. By basically saying that any oath they’ll take as jurors in a Senate trial would be worthless they’re also saying that any proceedings in the Senate would be a sham. It makes any protestations about the House trial sound trite and gives Pelosi leverage she wouldn’t have otherwise had. Huge mistake. If he thinks he can bluff Pelosi into sending the articles on over to the Senate any time soon then he must be a terrible poker player.

[Catonahottinroof]

That puts it on equal ground to what happened in the house. Pelosi has no cards to play, or leverage to gain from what happens in the Senate.
Regardless of the fact everyone knows that Trump won’t actually be removed, I think McConnell (and Graham) screwed up. By basically saying that any oath they’ll take as jurors in a Senate trial would be worthless they’re also saying that any proceedings in the Senate would be a sham. It makes any protestations about the House trial sound trite and gives Pelosi leverage she wouldn’t have otherwise had. Huge mistake. If he thinks he can bluff Pelosi into sending the articles on over to the Senate any time soon then he must be a terrible poker player.

[dan_bgblue]

Hey Chuckie.........

After McConnell spoke, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer shot back by dismissing the Republican claim that the impeachment was purely partisan as only Democrats voted for it.

"Forgive me, House Democrats cannot be held responsible for the cravenness of the House Republican Caucus and their blind fealty to the president," he said.


The House Republicans can not be held responsible for the blind hatred of the sitting President on the part of the scheming democrats.

[CitizenBBN]

Regardless of the fact everyone knows that Trump won’t actually be removed, I think McConnell (and Graham) screwed up. By basically saying that any oath they’ll take as jurors in a Senate trial would be worthless they’re also saying that any proceedings in the Senate would be a sham. It makes any protestations about the House trial sound trite and gives Pelosi leverage she wouldn’t have otherwise had. Huge mistake. If he thinks he can bluff Pelosi into sending the articles on over to the Senate any time soon then he must be a terrible poker player.

Even one of the Democrat's own legal "scholars" has said today that if articles aren't sent then he really wasn't impeached. It doesn't exist.

"Impeachment" is the House bringing a prosecution of the President to trial in the Senate. If you don't have a trial, he wasn't impeached.

It's like getting a grand jury indicting someone but the prosecutor never taking the case to trial. It's meaningless.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Here's what's going on:

1) Pelosi and the leadership knew impeachment was a political loser for them in battleground states.
2) They were all but forced to go through with it, with an engineered impeachment that was being actively fished for.
3) The numbers have shown they were right, and now if they take it to the Senate the GOP gets to respond to these charges, as does Trump.

So their solution is to hold the impeachment, to get their base off their back, but then not actually impeach him with a trial b/c the trial will give the microphone to the GOP.

Mitch hasn't screwed up anything. He's thrilled to have this sit in Pelosi's lap from now till November. The common voters wont' parse this very fine. The House voted then refused to do anything.

You already see Pelosi not actually stating demands, etc. They NEVER wanted to take this to the Senate. Mitch wants them to not send them, b/c this will totally whack them with independent voters. They were already tired of the distraction that isn't helping them, and now the Dems are telling them the exact opposite of how serious and grave this is, all within 24 hours, and now they know FOR SURE this was just politics.

24 hours ago we couldn't wait for an election, we couldn't wait for a drawn out process with witnesses from both sides of the issue, we couldn't consult with the White House b/c time was of such essence b/c having this President in office was an ongoing and severe threat to national security, democracy, the Constitution and everything else we hold dear.

Now that it's a lot harder for the AOC Squad Left to "primary" moderate Democrats on this issue, and now that the GOP would get their turn to call witnesses and possibly do things like ask whether Trump's calls to investigate Biden were justified when he's the leading Democratic candidate, suddenly Trump isn't such a severe and imminent threat at all.

Uh huh. Yeah, that's going to sell. I get how politicians reversing themselves over the course of months or years doesn't register with most people, but when it's about 12 hours and the change is that extreme, it's going to register.

The Democratic leadership did this to placate their extreme base and to try to dirty up Trump. The dirtying up didn't work very well among the key target group, but they did placate the base. Now if the base will just live with them not actually doing anything with their vote to impeach, and they can shut this down before it lets the GOP talk and far enough away from November that the voters forget what they did, pulling a collective political prank on the US Constitution, then they figure they won.

But this will leave a bad taste in people's mouths, and Mitch and Graham know it, and are going to let Pelosi own it. And in every flippable district they will run with this being a key feature of the campaign.

[CitizenBBN]

That puts it on equal ground to what happened in the house. Pelosi has no cards to play, or leverage to gain from what happens in the Senate.

I love the "pot calling the kettle black" level of discussion we've seen in American politics. It's fascinating to watch people compartmentalize their brains that much, but it can't be healthy.

The Democrats just engaged in a massively partisan political maneuver. If anyone thinks they sincerely did this with sadness and solemn purpose b/c they all asked themselves "what would the Founders do", then I'm sorry, I simply can't help you and you need to avoid operating heavy machinery.

Likewise the GOP will respond with their own partisan political maneuver in the trial.

This is politics. Does anyone really think any of this is about the Founders or God or anything else when either party invokes such things? Surely not. This is about power and money.

Everything both parties do is about winning the next election. Democrats have to deal with ending the "primary" threat coming from an ever more extreme wing of their party, while still playing to the middle in the general election to hold enough red districts to hold the House. They're playing a delicate game on a fence, trying to not fall off.

This was pure, even scathingly brazen, politics, and now they act like the GOP being political is somehow a problem.

What hubris. What gall. What an ability to flat say ANYTHING to keep that power.

[CitizenBBN]

And BTW I guarantee the independent voters will absolutely see this process, if the just bury the articles and don't send them, as being a) unfair to Trump, and b) political "cheating" versus the Senate.

This actually has the potential to make Trump look like a victim here. Personally I hope they're dumb enough, and afraid enough of the Senate GOP, to own this and hold them and never send them up.

But it's a GOP win win right now and Mitch knows it. Don't send them and the Dems and Pelosi look totally disingenuous and political and show they don't care about the people's needs. Send it up and Trump gets to have his day in court in front of the world's most sympathetic jury.

Mitch is going to go to the floor and basically taunt them to do something b/c right now they're in a sticky wicket and either option will only get worse no matter which they choose.

[CitizenBBN]

And there is also a timing issue here. The dems dont' want Mitch to be able to put time between the impeachment and the vote on the new trade agreement. That's a big win for Trump, maybe the biggest of his Presidency, and they want it buried with all the impeachment buzz.

If Mitch has the trial quick, and it goes away and then they pick up the vote on the new deal it gets much more attention. But if Pelosi can pull impeachment out maybe Mitch feels he has to take the trade deal to a vote.

But you have the Majority Whip today saying he wouldn't take the articles to the senate ever, so I think this timing reason is secondary to the overall ploy where I think they never were going to send them, but it's out there.

[Catfan73]

And there is also a timing issue here. The dems dont' want Mitch to be able to put time between the impeachment and the vote on the new trade agreement. That's a big win for Trump, maybe the biggest of his Presidency, and they want it buried with all the impeachment buzz.

If Mitch has the trial quick, and it goes away and then they pick up the vote on the new deal it gets much more attention. But if Pelosi can pull impeachment out maybe Mitch feels he has to take the trade deal to a vote.

But you have the Majority Whip today saying he wouldn't take the articles to the senate ever, so I think this timing reason is secondary to the overall ploy where I think they never were going to send them, but it's out there.

How is he going to have the trial quick? He can’t have it at all until Pelosi says he can. She’s holding all the cards now because McConnell and Graham folded before the flop. They gave her exactly what she needed and didn’t even know that she needed it lol. I’m telling you guys, she’s smarter than both of those guys put together.

[Catonahottinroof]

Impeachment is null and void if she doesn’t send it....
She’s not holding any cards, other than subverting the constitution card....
How is he going to have the trial quick? He can’t have it at all until Pelosi says he can. She’s holding all the cards now because McConnell and Graham folded before the flop. They gave her exactly what she needed and didn’t even know that she needed it lol. I’m telling you guys, she’s smarter than both of those guys put together.

[Catfan73]

Talk about subverting the Constitution...isn’t that pretty much what McConnell did when he outright told the world that he wouldn’t be fulfilling his constitutional duties because he won’t be impartial in the proceedings? The Senate is supposed to be the higher chamber, statesmen above the fray so to speak, or at least that used to be the narrative. Everyone knows they wouldn’t be impartial but to come out and admit it in front of a bunch of tv cameras? Dumb.

[dan_bgblue]

I guess that if Schumer had been asked the same question he had the choice to demure and not answer, be candid and tell the truth, or just do what most politicians do best and lie. I actually appreciate the fact that McConnell chose to tell the truth. I do recognize that he was in a position to tell the truth and not hurt his position, but he still did it.

[Doc]

She wants to make sure it is 1) fair and 2) the outcome.is not predetermined.

I love Washington hypocrisy. It did not bother her that the house process was unfair, rigged and run by people who came into the process claiming guilt before any evidence was found

[CitizenBBN]

Talk about subverting the Constitution...isn’t that pretty much what McConnell did when he outright told the world that he wouldn’t be fulfilling his constitutional duties because he won’t be impartial in the proceedings? The Senate is supposed to be the higher chamber, statesmen above the fray so to speak, or at least that used to be the narrative. Everyone knows they wouldn’t be impartial but to come out and admit it in front of a bunch of tv cameras? Dumb.

So everyone on the planet knows neither side is impartial, but you'd feel better if the GOP lied like the Dems just did about the House process?

It would be better for him to say he's going to commune with the souls of the founders nad pray to God for divine guidance, like Pelosi, when we all know it's crap?

[dan_bgblue]

Chuckie is the winner (https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/cal-thomas-final-jeopardy-for-democrats)

[Catfan73]

Some have suggested that maybe Mitch isn’t sure if he has the 51 votes he would need to go directly to a vote and that’s why he said what he did about following the White House’s lead in a Senate trial—to delay Pelosi and Schumer. But even if that’s the case she’s going to turn it over at a most inopportune time. Even so, I’m sure most Americans would hope to see a fair and impartial trial with actual testimony etc, even if its in spite of Mitch.

He might be actually be thinking about a replay of the fallout of the Clinton impeachment, but not in a way some people seem to think. The Republican’s theory seems to be that the public in general dislikes impeachment and will therefore vote out some of the people responsible for impeaching Trump. The last time around it pretty much ended Newt the Grinch’s political career. What that theory ignores however is that public approval for impeaching Clinton never crested 30% while 50% support impeaching Trump—and that from a Fox News poll. There are some incumbent Republicans that undoubtedly like to keep from pissing off too many people with a faux trial.

[Catonahottinroof]

The right set this in motion over 20 years ago. The left didn’t learn the lesson and history is repeating itself. It’s fascinating to see stupidity in motion, not just once, but twice with my lifetime.
Chuckie is the winner (https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/cal-thomas-final-jeopardy-for-democrats)

[Catonahottinroof]

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-12-19/trump-impeachment-delay-could-be-serious-problem-for-democrats

[Catfan73]

Is Bloomberg still campaigning? I didn’t watch the debate the other night but I just realized he apparently wasn’t invited.

[Catonahottinroof]

He is campaigning. He didn’t get in the polling cycle quick enough to be included in this past debate.