Super duper baby step, super-old DSLR camera plan

[Darrell KSR]

OK, so this is the deal. My camera needs have changed.

I have gone from video, which I no longer do at all (no more plays, no more video basketball or soccer games, etc.) to camera, and camera at close-enough range. Soccer games my son plays are now all streamed online for me already, and daughter's plays can no longer be recorded because they take, you know, laws seriously and crap. Photography no longer requires a super-zoom, as I can get front row seats to any soccer game, but they do require stop-action photography, and low-light conditions under stadium lights for night games.

Don't think I'm going to get involved in photography as a hobby, but might want to play around with the concept a little. I'm just now figuring out what shutter speed, aperture/f-stops, ISO settings, etc. have to do with these action photos.

Here's the plan.

I'm going to pick up a super-old DSLR, like a Nikon D50 camera, hopefully with a decent lens already for next to nothing. (Just now figuring out that there are a lot of differences in lenses. Who knew? Oh, that's right--everybody else.)

I am in no hurry, and will gladly browse eBay until the right offering comes along. Can take several months and I'm ok with that.

Anyway, for decent, "at-home" usage, for posting on the internet, my wife posting on Facebook, etc., if I got the Nikon D50 camera or similar, is there an older lens I should look for with it for these needs, or is it just, "look at each one, because there's like 300 different lenses that fit and that's impossible to say otherwise?"

Should I try to find a lens with a maximum aperture of like f/2.8 at whatever zoom level, sort of as a minimum baseline? Or is that going to be too expensive for just a "trial" kinda thing? Seems so many of them have much smaller apertures...looking at one now with a 35-70mm lens, and a 3.3-4.5 aperture, which I don't think would be good for low light (and the 70mm might not be enough anyway, although I don't need super-zoom).

If I get something like this, play around with it enough--and I do know that I'll be frustrated unless the equipment is at least capable of doing what I want, which is why I'm looking for the right "set"--I may talk myself into a new hobby in a year or so, but for now, that's not what this is.

Anyway, general comments, ridicule and derision invited.

[KentuckyWildcat]

I have a rebel t4i with a 18-135 (3.5 aperture IIRC) lens that does just about everything I have needed. And pretty much all I ever carry. I have a 50mm fixed (1.8 aperture) (great budget buy) I use for really low light or if I want to be creative.

[Darrell KSR]

I know this is one of those areas you have to be careful. You get something that isn't right, and you won't like it, so you'll never get into it. It's like buying a $50 bike and joining a bike club with their uber-light, efficient cycles. You get frustrated because it's more work and less fun. But you sound like you're sort of along my same mindset....get something that you can get your maximum benefit out of, even if there are other cameras that would let you do more, better, bigger, faster, less fattening and less morally questionable things!

I call myself the king of the Luddites. I like to get the maximum benefit out of whatever I have, rather than have something I don't get all the benefit out of. Drives me crazy (and drives my family and friends crazy that I'm this way lol). Plus I'm chea....err, frugal. Frugal, that's the word.

[KentuckyWildcat]

You frugal? We never knew.

[Darrell KSR]

I hide it well.

[dan_bgblue]

I am a Canon user and have no opinion on the Nikon brand other than they make good cameras. We could go back and forth posting for days if you want to talk Canon.

[Darrell KSR]

I have no brand allegiance, Dan. I'm sure Canon has a great old option out there too. Just had somebody mention the Nikon D50 one to me as a good one that wouldn't hurt me to start.

[BigBluePappy]

I am a Canon user and have no opinion on the Nikon brand other than they make good cameras. We could go back and forth posting for days if you want to talk Canon.

AE1 Programmable that I have passed down to my Grand-Daughter. An honest to goodness workhorse...and she gets to work the warmth of film. Took a class her senior year at Male and has continued the love...

[dan_bgblue]

AE1 Programmable that I have passed down to my Grand-Daughter. An honest to goodness workhorse...and she gets to work the warmth of film. Took a class her senior year at Male and has continued the love...

Mine sits right next to my Minolta XG1 on the top shelf of our hall closet. It just needs a new roll of film and a lens mounted on the front side and we would be ready to go.

[Darrell KSR]

In my "ancient, throw-around, see if I like it" category, I'm now looking at the Canon 40D. Web photos only, not looking for any prints. It's a one-trick pony only to see if I like it or if I'll just get frustrated trying to figure it out, so I won't get hurt badly with an old, inexpensive version. Plus I have two cheap lenses that will fit it already, although they won't be good for my primary concern (night shooting, under the lights). If I go this route, I'll have to find a good deal on a used lens with decent reach and a wide aperture. Some of those prices!

[dan_bgblue]

I'll have to find a good deal on a used lens with decent reach and a wide aperture.

Those three things do not go together at the same time. I can get you into a 70mm X 200mm fixed f2.8 zoom lens, that fits your needs or wants for about $1200.00 I have one and it is a fantastic lens but cheap it is not. I have the same focal length lens in a fixed f4.0 aperture that was $1,100.00 new and is about $800.00 now

I have a few zoom lenses that would fit your need for wide and long AND frugal but the f stop varies from f5.6 to f11.0 depending on the focal length The prices on those are $150.00 to $250.00 for used lenses in good shape. They are cheaper lenses because there is not as much glass inside them hence the lousy f stop range, but they perform very well in full daylight.

A good 30mm f1.4 lens is about $250.00 and a used 85mm f1.8 is about the same money at $250.00 These fixed focal length lenses generally have higher quality glass that does not move in the lens tube and provides higher quality images. They are referred to as Prime lenses.

The Canon 4D is a great used camera for the money and with good glass in front of it can produce great 11X14 prints in crystal clear colors or black and whites. It is my back up camera and I still shoot with it a lot.

When you are pairing focal lengths with the 40D which is a crop frame camera, the field of view with each lens is is reduced by a factor of 1.6 so the 30mm lens is in effect a 48 mm and the 85 mm is a 136 mm.

Camera lenses have a fixed depreciation factor when they leave the store of about 10 to 20 % depending on the initial cost, then they hold their value for years and years if they are well taken care of. On the other hand, prosumer camera bodies continue to lose values over time until they are dirt cheap after 7 to 10 years. If you invest in full frame professional DSLR then the value is held for years and years.

[dan_bgblue]

I almost forgot about this lens, I guess because I never owned one, but it kinda fits you needs. 17mm-85mm F4-f5.6. I am guessing about $300.00 based on what it was new

[Darrell KSR]

It looks like lenses are where it's at. I've been scouring a large nationwide photography equipment for sale Facebook group, and the really good lenses that would be what somebody serious (even semi serious) would need are $1k and up, or close.

Ebay supports that position although a unicorn sometimes appears if you get lucky. Something like a goodwill store selling a camera, doesn't list the lens in the title, lists it in the description but doesn't describe the aperture, etc., but blowing up the photograph you see what's on the lens. Or opting for one with a flaw so you can try it out, something doesn't work with the lens, some dust in it, something.

Fwiw, I attended my last soccer game of the Fall last night so my next need will likely be in the spring--maybe, but more likely in 10 months. Plenty of time to mess around.

I'm still thinking a Canon 40D. I already have two lenses for it to play around with, and you can get one dirt cheap.

[Darrell KSR]

Dan, a prime lens sounds interesting. That might be something I look for. I like simple, one function things and that might be just the ticket as a better lens than what I have and what I would be willing to pay for to see if I like it. Interesting!

[dan_bgblue]

Dan, a prime lens sounds interesting. That might be something I look for. I like simple, one function things and that might be just the ticket as a better lens than what I have and what I would be willing to pay for to see if I like it. Interesting!

I love Primes. Many folks do not as one has to change lenses to fit the conditions and the need. It can be a hassle. Just think of being at the beach and the sand is dry and the wind is blowing 40 mph and you have to open up the guts to your camera to change lenses in the open. I have a soft cloth bag that I put everything in with the drawstring on the inside of the bag. Pull the string tight enough to keep out the dust,sand etc, change the lens by feel and voila, I am ready for the new situation. Again some folks do not want to carry a bag with lenses or just one lens in it with them. They want to just stick a lens on the camera, leave the house, take the pictures, come home, transfer the images to the computer, and put up the camera with lens still mounted.

[dan_bgblue]

If you do buy a Canon 40D or 50D let me know and we can talk about me sending you a couple primes from my collection to try out and see how you like them.. I'm thinking a EF 30mm f1.4 and a EF 85mm f1.8. That way you won't have to spend any money to just try out something that you can't return. I also have an EFS 17mm X 55mm constant f2.8 with image stabilization zoom lens that is a lot of fun to use that is on my loan list.

None of these are currently for sale and probably never will be. but you would be welcome to use them to see if you like them or not.

[dan_bgblue]

A coupe of camera equipment sites on the interweb are, (have to join this one to see the gear for sale forum) photographyonthenet.com and keh.com

[Darrell KSR]

Thanks for all the help, suggestions (and offer), Dan. I'll let this percolate a bit and probably pick up the camera body. There are so many great cameras out there, that there seems to be an abundance of very old models that still work very well (until they don't, of course). If/when I get the body, I'll probably try it out a little with the two lenses I have and get used to it, then I may come back and take you up on your offer and see if something would work pretty well like that.

For the most part, I'm looking for a one-trick pony right now anyway. Some action shots (starting with soccer, but probably migrating to baseball, basketball and football possibly). We'll see.

[Darrell KSR]

I don't even have a camera so I'm not interested in this, but what do you think about something like this?

It's not 2.8, but is this a middle ground at 4.5, prime, manual focus?

Just curious.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F38 3241240057

[Darrell KSR]

Assume something like this would be infinitely better anyway.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F17 4071929936

[dan_bgblue]

stay away from #1. #2 should be a nice lens and it gives you the added feature of being able to take macro pictures where the aspect ratio is 1 to 1, You actually have to focus the image by moving the camera toward or away from the object you are trying to capture when in macro mode. It allows you to take a picture of a flower, a nickle, a tennis ball, etc and have the image that is taken be the same size as what you saw thru the viewfinder. Here is an example of what I am talking about

8519

[CGWildcat]

Just to chime in, I've gone from Canon to all Olympus now. Great little cameras

[dan_bgblue]

Thrrppppp!!!

[Darrell KSR]

Picked up a Canon EOS 40d on ebay last night. Got a good deal on it. I don't have any great lenses for it yet, but I have three I will play with for awhile:

Canon EF 28-135mm 1:3.5-5.6 IS
Canon EF 35-80mm 1:4-5.6
Canon Zoom EF 80-200mm 1:4.5-5.6

I know none of the lenses are very good. But at least it might let me play with it a little bit.

[dan_bgblue]

The native onboard pop up flash will make using the 35-80 usable indoors. Set everything on automatic and choose the zoom level and snap away. Here is a link to a good alternative to the excellent but very high priced Canon Speedlite hot shoe flash units that will give you excellent lighting out to 40 or 50 feet if needed and if you set it and hte camera to automatic it does all the work of choosing power levels for you and also allows you to use indirect lighting for a softer effect. Adorama is a very high end camera house, so one can buy with confidence

https://www.adorama.com/us%20%20%201189629.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0uaqlsSN 5gIVVP_jBx10eg7jEAQYASABEgJGS_D_BwE

[Darrell KSR]

Thanks, Dan. Give me a few months to play with this and I'll start asking questions after that (fair warning).

[dan_bgblue]

btw if you want to buy that same flash unit new instead of used prepare to pony up about $85.00

Last comment is that you may want to shop around for a 15-55 efs lens. They run about $50.00 used and will be a good compliment to your kit. Lets you get some of the "wide angle" shots you were used to with your bridge camera.

[Darrell KSR]

Appreciate all of the start-up advice, Dan. Don't be surprised when this thread gets bumped back up after the first of the year. It'll take me some time to start playing with it, and I don't mind making egregious errors on my own while starting up so that I can ask better questions. But I'll be slow with it.

[dan_bgblue]

Wonderful thing about digital cameras is that you can keep snapping and it does not cost you anything to learn from the bad shots as well as the good. I do suggest setting the camera to the one shot per shutter button press though as that camera will zip off about 6 shots a second if you don't. It is somewhat satisfying to hear all those rapid fire shutter clicks, but all those images do not help one learn much.

[dan_bgblue]

Thanks, Dan. Give me a few months to play with this and I'll start asking questions after that (fair warning).

I'll send Coastie a PM to watch out for you

[CGWildcat]

Great stuff in here between you both. I'm considering adding an old film camera to my bounty to relive my youth. Anyone have any laying around and you need help cleaning out? :050:

[Darrell KSR]

As promised (as I threatened?), I'm bumping the thread.

I'm attending the Birmingham Legion v Atlanta United preseason game Saturday with my son. (Side note--Birmingham Legion signed one of his teammates that he played club ball with; he's 19 as is my son, and lives in Dallas now. Or, I guess, he lives in Birmingham again now after being signed). Anyway...

I didn't bring the EOS 40d to Auburn; haven't taken any photos with it yet. I didn't tell you what happened, but the first camera I got was a dud (I think). I can't get it powered on. The price I paid was so low, that it was ok, because it came with a 28-135mm lens that was easily worth what I paid for the whole thing, but it irritated me that the camera didn't work, as it was represented that nothing was wrong with it, other than it needed a battery. I bought two new batteries, a new charger, replaced the "button cell" battery, did my best to see if there were any switches that needed cleaning, were stuck, etc., and could not find anything wrong. Except it didn't work.

But I found a better camera. This one has 1,625 shutter actuations, and was sold to me by a California cinematographer, camera and electrical specialist, and took great care of her equipment. Won cinematographer awards for her work in two television series, etc. Just think it's a cool piece of history added to the camera (which is also an EOS 40d). Camera looks absolutely mint, came in original box, etc.

Anyway, I checked it, and it powered right up fine. Now I have two cameras--one working, one not--and four batteries, and two chargers (I bought two batteries and a charger separately). I guess I need to get a battery grip so that I can take advantage of all the batteries.

I have no idea how to use it. I guess I'll start figuring out Saturday.

[Darrell KSR]

Also--remember, the main reason I got this camera was mainly for the next 3½ years to take photos of my son playing soccer (I'm out of the video recording business). Doesn't have to be great photos, but better than my camera was doing, which was really struggling badly. Of course, it was worse under the lights, and I know that will be an issue no matter what, but I'm hoping that I can get a few more decent shots to put on internet, etc. and share with family.

[dan_bgblue]

I have no idea how to use it. I guess I'll start figuring out Saturday.

And the verdict is?

[Darrell KSR]

And the verdict is?

Dan, I didn't have time to try to figure out anything. So I set it to AI-Servo (I think that's what it was called) and the Sports setting. Used the 28-135mm lens. Of course, it was pretty darn great conditions, game kicked off at 3:30pm CT and sun was out for most of the game. But I am so happy with what I saw. I took less than 50 shots--some pregame stuff, mainly focusing on the one player we knew, a couple of crowd photos across the stadium (with the Atlanta United fan group, the flags, etc.), and then game action when Jaden came into the game.

I know they aren't what somebody that knows what they're doing would do, but this is exactly--exactly--what I was looking for. Crisp, clear pictures of players in action. I'll start a thread and post photos in it in a few.

[dan_bgblue]

I am glad you are pleased. The key to photography starts with light then everything else is adjusted for the image in the great light.

[KeithKSR]

The native onboard pop up flash will make using the 35-80 usable indoors. Set everything on automatic and choose the zoom level and snap away. Here is a link to a good alternative to the excellent but very high priced Canon Speedlite hot shoe flash units that will give you excellent lighting out to 40 or 50 feet if needed and if you set it and hte camera to automatic it does all the work of choosing power levels for you and also allows you to use indirect lighting for a softer effect. Adorama is a very high end camera house, so one can buy with confidence

https://www.adorama.com/us%20%20%201189629.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0uaqlsSN 5gIVVP_jBx10eg7jEAQYASABEgJGS_D_BwE

I bought my Canon T3i from there about a decade ago. They had the best deal on them when I purchased the camera.

[KeithKSR]

Dan, I didn't have time to try to figure out anything. So I set it to AI-Servo (I think that's what it was called) and the Sports setting. Used the 28-135mm lens. Of course, it was pretty darn great conditions, game kicked off at 3:30pm CT and sun was out for most of the game. But I am so happy with what I saw. I took less than 50 shots--some pregame stuff, mainly focusing on the one player we knew, a couple of crowd photos across the stadium (with the Atlanta United fan group, the flags, etc.), and then game action when Jaden came into the game.

I know they aren't what somebody that knows what they're doing would do, but this is exactly--exactly--what I was looking for. Crisp, clear pictures of players in action. I'll start a thread and post photos in it in a few.

Did you try the continuous shooting mode? It is great for sports action shots.

[Darrell KSR]

Did you try the continuous shooting mode? It is great for sports action shots.I'm not sure, Keith. Maybe. It took several pictures if I held the shutter button down.

But I really haven't looked up anything on it, so I really wasn't doing much intentionally. Whatever happened was by happenstance.

[dan_bgblue]

you mentioned that the camera came with the original box. Did it also come with the original user manual?

[Darrell KSR]

Unfortunately, no, but I do have it on PDF.

I printed like 65 pages from it I intended to read, but I haven't gotten... 9084

[Darrell KSR]

Just fwiw, my attempts at the Kentucky v Samford Softball game last Friday night were abysmal.

First, the softball viewing area for fans, which is where I went, had nets in front.

I tried to manipulate to manual focusing so it would not focus on the netting, but it stunk. Then I went to an adjacent parking deck unencumbered by the netting but forgot I was still on manual focus and took bad shots there. Then I finally realized, but almost ready to go, and I was just too far away to get good action photos. I need to practice at nighttime baseball games.

[dan_bgblue]

Using the equipment you currently have you may not get any usable night images at the ball games. One tip I have about shooting thru the netting at ball games is to walk up within 10 to 20 feet of the netting and focus on the action on the field. The netting disappears completely even in the daylight.

[Darrell KSR]

Yup, I just wanted something bad to kinda get used to it. I don't think I even rose to that level. Equipment is most of it, and I think I knew that but I should've done something better anyway.

[Darrell KSR]

I love Primes. Many folks do not as one has to change lenses to fit the conditions and the need. It can be a hassle. Just think of being at the beach and the sand is dry and the wind is blowing 40 mph and you have to open up the guts to your camera to change lenses in the open. I have a soft cloth bag that I put everything in with the drawstring on the inside of the bag. Pull the string tight enough to keep out the dust,sand etc, change the lens by feel and voila, I am ready for the new situation. Again some folks do not want to carry a bag with lenses or just one lens in it with them. They want to just stick a lens on the camera, leave the house, take the pictures, come home, transfer the images to the computer, and put up the camera with lens still mounted.

I haven't been shooting anything...which is probably absurd, as there's been nothing else to do, so I really should have gone places just to practice. Anyway, it reminded me about this thread.

I took a look at "best sports lenses" and some of those are more than I pay for my cars. So I thought about this post, found it, and was wondering what you'd recommend for this one-trick pony use:

* Going to an OUTDOOR NIGHT soccer game. Maybe 40-50 yards from the subject (that's pretty close; hard to get much closer unless you're on the field). No more than 75 yards maximum. So all shots from 40-75 yards. Sometimes in daylight. Outdoor games generally with excellent stadium lights, but sometimes not, so consider it poor lighting.

Canon EOS 40D
40-75 yards
Inadequate lighting
Moving action

Prime lens perfectly fine. Other lenses for anything else; just a one-trick pony for this purpose only.

And just to add some fun to the thread...here are a couple of the photos I took at the soccer game I mentioned back in February. Before it got dark, they were fine. Photos of a former teammate of my son in his professional debut in soccer at age 18.

https://i.imgur.com/E5BckyI.jpg

[Darrell KSR]

More

https://i.imgur.com/fZ9Px6j.jpg

[Darrell KSR]

Pre-game.

https://i.imgur.com/3VwCINF.jpg

[Darrell KSR]

He didn't get it, but thought he was going to. He's cat-quick (and left-footed, so the kicker was dangerously exposed on this pass).

https://i.imgur.com/zHbnLiI.jpg

[Darrell KSR]

Just FWIW, I'll be happy with these photos for day games when my son plays. But night photos are a different story, so I'm looking for a lens that can accommodate those.

[KeithKSR]

I noticed the image is much clearer without the wider angle shots. There are modes that will allow you to choose how the camera reacts based on what you are shooting. For sports where there is movement you use the AI Servo mode. https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART101989&actp=LIST

The lens you have may be fine for night use at games. Here is a chart that gives some settings recommendations for night use for a variety of shots:
https://www.cameraexperts.us/canon-eos-40d-guide/night-and-lowlight-photography.html

When the 40D first came out I used my niece’s camera to shoot her wedding. Photos turned out great! I’ve shot some weddings before for family and had good shots, but this was another level. They are an excellent camera.

My camera is great for photography novices, like me. It has a lot of modes that take care of the grunt work and lets me do a lot of the point and shoot stuff. Here is a document that mentions the modes it has: https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/T3I/T3IMENUS.HTM

[dan_bgblue]

Arghh. Toughest thing to do is recommend lenses for low light, apertures, ISO settings, shutter speeds, and focal length, from a seat anywhere other than at the venue right next to or behind the viewfinder of the camera. 85 mm f 1.8 lens ($350.00 new) or a 70-200 mm f 2.8 zoom lens ($1,300.00 new)

You can rent one or both of those lenses from Wolf Camera or Ritz Camera in Birmingham for about $20.00 per day each. Negotiate with them to pick up the lenses right before you go to the soccer match with an agreement to return them when they open the next morning. Might get a good rate doing it that way. If the 85 mm gets you close enough to the action on the field and you are satisfied with being limited to that focal length for $350.00, then you know it will suit you in the long haul. If the 70-200mm is more to your liking then you know to save your pennies and buy one for Christmas.

Camera settings for either lens would be something like wide open aperture, either 1.8 or 2.8, 800 ISO, and let the camera choose the shutter speed. Set mode at AI servo and squeeze the button

[Darrell KSR]

I noticed the image is much clearer without the wider angle shots. There are modes that will allow you to choose how the camera reacts based on what you are shooting. For sports where there is movement you use the AI Servo mode. https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART101989&actp=LIST

The lens you have may be fine for night use at games. Here is a chart that gives some settings recommendations for night use for a variety of shots:
https://www.cameraexperts.us/canon-eos-40d-guide/night-and-lowlight-photography.html

When the 40D first came out I used my niece’s camera to shoot her wedding. Photos turned out great! I’ve shot some weddings before for family and had good shots, but this was another level. They are an excellent camera.

My camera is great for photography novices, like me. It has a lot of modes that take care of the grunt work and lets me do a lot of the point and shoot stuff. Here is a document that mentions the modes it has: https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/T3I/T3IMENUS.HTM


Arghh. Toughest thing to do is recommend lenses for low light, apertures, ISO settings, shutter speeds, and focal length, from a seat anywhere other than at the venue right next to or behind the viewfinder of the camera. 85 mm f 1.8 lens ($350.00 new) or a 70-200 mm f 2.8 zoom lens ($1,300.00 new)

You can rent one or both of those lenses from Wolf Camera or Ritz Camera in Birmingham for about $20.00 per day each. Negotiate with them to pick up the lenses right before you go to the soccer match with an agreement to return them when they open the next morning. Might get a good rate doing it that way. If the 85 mm gets you close enough to the action on the field and you are satisfied with being limited to that focal length for $350.00, then you know it will suit you in the long haul. If the 70-200mm is more to your liking then you know to save your pennies and buy one for Christmas.

Camera settings for either lens would be something like wide open aperture, either 1.8 or 2.8, 800 ISO, and let the camera choose the shutter speed. Set mode at AI servo and squeeze the button

Thanks, VERY good advice from both posts.

[VirginiaCat]

I purchased and A7ii (Sony) before we went to Hawaii in 2018. Full frame. Only had the stock lens. Worked great but wanted more. Also discovered I dd not like to change lenses .

So, for our Med Cruise I upgrade to the Sony fe 24-105 f4 lens. Great general purpose lens. The Full Frame effectively doubles that zoom.

[Darrell KSR]

I'm so bad at this, I don't even know the lingo.

I made the mistake inside a store (wasn't even a camera store, but a big box store that sold cameras) of saying something about a "zoom" lens, and apparently I even had that part wrong.

[dan_bgblue]

One other point I would like to share is that any lens that can satisfy you light gathering needs at night will work splendidly in the daytime. The limiting factor of the lens is how big is the maximum opening on the business end of the lens. The bigger the hole the better the lens for night work, but that same lens will allow you to shrink the hole to almost a pinpoint, f 32 for daytime work.

[dan_bgblue]

I'm so bad at this, I don't even know the lingo.

I made the mistake inside a store (wasn't even a camera store, but a big box store that sold cameras) of saying something about a "zoom" lens, and apparently I even had that part wrong.

Back in the day when I invested in my first camera that had lots of settings and interchangeable lenses I spent some time hanging out in the camera store where I bought the camera. The staff was older and very experienced with the equipment and did not mind talking with me and correcting any mistakes I was making in my thought process or terminology in a professional and kind way.

I am glad I did not have to deal with some wet behind the ears kid that was younger than me and had 2 days of camera schooling and then stuck behind the counter to make sales and not provide service for the product.

[KeithKSR]

Back in the day when I invested in my first camera that had lots of settings and interchangeable lenses I spent some time hanging out in the camera store where I bought the camera. The staff was older and very experienced with the equipment and did not mind talking with me and correcting any mistakes I was making in my thought process or terminology in a professional and kind way.

I am glad I did not have to deal with some wet behind the ears kid that was younger than me and had 2 days of camera schooling and then stuck behind the counter to make sales and not provide service for the product.

I’ve still got my first SLR. It’s a Chinon I bought used from a friend who had upgraded for $150 in late 1982 or early 1983. It came with two screw in lenses. It was completely manual, but did have a built in meter that helped adjust the speed and aperture. At the time I was going to college and working at the Morehead State print shop. That gave me access to the print shop dark room and they allowed me to develop my black and white film and even use their enlarger to do my own prints. It was a really fun experience.

[dan_bgblue]

That gave me access to the print shop dark room and they allowed me to develop my black and white film and even use their enlarger to do my own prints. It was a really fun experience.

That would have been way cool. I was always told that the best way to learn about exposure metering was developing you own work. I kept a written log of the film ISO, camera shutter speed and f stop of all my work so that when I got the photos back from the lab 2 or 3 weeks later I could think thru the process and try to improve the next set of shots I took.

Lot different back then as there was the cost of a roll of unexposed film, shipping, then paying for developing, processing and printing. Depending on the type of film being used and the desired effects applied to the image, you could be spending a couple of dollars every time you clicked the shutter button without knowing whether the eventual image was going to be a keeper or a 5x7 piece of junk. That could be 24 dollars for a 12 exposure roll of film, especially if it was color film.

I still have my first SLR as well. Minolta XGM. I bought it, a hot shoe flash, and 3 lenses the month before our daughter was born. I have never regretted that purchase.

[KeithKSR]

That would have been way cool. I was always told that the best way to learn about exposure metering was developing you own work. I kept a written log of the film ISO, camera shutter speed and f stop of all my work so that when I got the photos back from the lab 2 or 3 weeks later I could think thru the process and try to improve the next set of shots I took.

Lot different back then as there was the cost of a roll of unexposed film, shipping, then paying for developing, processing and printing. Depending on the type of film being used and the desired effects applied to the image, you could be spending a couple of dollars every time you clicked the shutter button without knowing whether the eventual image was going to be a keeper or a 5x7 piece of junk. That could be 24 dollars for a 12 exposure roll of film, especially if it was color film.

I still have my first SLR as well. Minolta XGM. I bought it, a hot shoe flash, and 3 lenses the month before our daughter was born. I have never regretted that purchase.

My wife bought me a Minolta for. Christmas in the late 90s, I still have that camera also. I need a lens for it now, one of the grandkids dropped it and cracked the plastic on the lens, breaking the bayonet lugs off the lens.