Obama poised to shove America off fiscal cliff

[KeithKSR]

It appears that it is President Obama's primary objective to push the United States off the fiscal cliff, refusing to make any efforts at compromise. The President needs to scrub away his own "peel off the partisan war paint." This is the same guy that drove the country down the road to fiscal insolvency over the last four years, the ultimate tax and spend liberal who knows nothing about economics, nothing about history, and even less about politics.

[Doc]

Yup

[CitizenBBN]

Sadly the GOP may give in on another $4 TRILLION in debt. We'll have doubled the debt from $10 to $20 trillion in Obama's first term.

Personally versus a deal that adds $4 trillion to the debt ceiling I'm all for running this puppy off the cliff and see what happens. It won't be pretty, but this government is an addict to spending and expansion and this addict needs to get clean. If it won't go to rehab and do it the tough but still tolerable way it's time for cold turkey withdrawal.

[uklandrn]

Sadly the GOP may give in on another $4 TRILLION in debt. We'll have doubled the debt from $10 to $20 trillion in Obama's first term.

Personally versus a deal that adds $4 trillion to the debt ceiling I'm all for running this puppy off the cliff and see what happens. It won't be pretty, but this government is an addict to spending and expansion and this addict needs to get clean. If it won't go to rehab and do it the tough but still tolerable way it's time for cold turkey withdrawal.

It would be hard to go cold turkey - but I seriously believe POTUS will have the country going to the methadone clinic. No way he doesn't increase the debt.

[CattyWampus]

We've already gone off the fiscal cliff. We're just waiting for the impact at the bottom.

[CitizenBBN]

We've already gone off the fiscal cliff. We're just waiting for the impact at the bottom.

True dat.

[suncat05]

I have always heard that it is not the fall that kills you.........it's that sudden, violent, hard stop that does it. We, as a nation, have been steadily plummeting to that death for many generations now, since the days of Woodrow Wilson.
But heed my words here, brothers & sisters..........when it happens it is going to be bad. Worse than bad most likely.

[badrose]

I have always heard that it is not the fall that kills you.........it's that sudden, violent, hard stop that does it. We, as a nation, have been steadily plummeting to that death for many generations now, since the days of Woodrow Wilson.
But heed my words here, brothers & sisters..........when it happens it is going to be bad. Worse than bad most likely.

It's hard to imagine a real turnaround at this point short of a civil war. Way too many drinking the koolaid and most productive people who know better are struggling just to maintain.

[CitizenBBN]

It's hard to imagine a real turnaround at this point short of a civil war. Way too many drinking the koolaid and most productive people who know better are struggling just to maintain.

Will be shocked if it comes to that, but not as shocked as one might think. I talk to way too many "normal" people who are professionals, white collar folks who are the opposite of the 'survivalist gun nut' stereotype who are planning for SHTF in some way (s*** hits the fan). They aren't quitting their jobs or going to extremes like on that Preppers show, but moving money from banks to gold, getting a gun and some ammo stored up, keeping extra canned goods on hand in case of some kind of interruption in the system.

I was just at a very nice coat and tie cocktail party at a country club and you wouldn't believe how people react when they find out I deal in guns among my many hats. I thought it would be some level of discomfort and even disdain. Nope, they open up that they have been thinking about getting one or getting more and how they need to protect themselves and their families and be more prepared.

A lot of folks are worried, and not just about mortgage payments.

[badrose]

Government agencies are preparing for it as we've shown here previously. Just a cost of doing their business it seems.

[KeithKSR]

Will be shocked if it comes to that, but not as shocked as one might think. I talk to way too many "normal" people who are professionals, white collar folks who are the opposite of the 'survivalist gun nut' stereotype who are planning for SHTF in some way (s*** hits the fan). They aren't quitting their jobs or going to extremes like on that Preppers show, but moving money from banks to gold, getting a gun and some ammo stored up, keeping extra canned goods on hand in case of some kind of interruption in the system.

I was just at a very nice coat and tie cocktail party at a country club and you wouldn't believe how people react when they find out I deal in guns among my many hats. I thought it would be some level of discomfort and even disdain. Nope, they open up that they have been thinking about getting one or getting more and how they need to protect themselves and their families and be more prepared.

More people legally own firearms today than at any other time in the history of the United States. There seems to be an overall sense that there is likely to be an event in the near future that will deal a blow to society as we now know it. Our infrastructure is decaying, our electrical grid is hanging on by a hope and a prayer, we are way overdue for a geological landscape altering event, our economy is teetering, and our world has too many zealots too close to obtaining nukes. Earth is overpopulated, and overpopulation beyond what can be supported by an economy or nature occurs there is an event that reigns in the population. There are a lot more "preppers" out there than the media realizes, and there are people out there that are prepping and do not even realize they are preppers. After Katrina, Sandy, and hundreds of other events it is clear that people should be prepared to be without electrical power for at least a couple of weeks, have food and water on hand for their family to last at least that long, and be prepared to protect their homes and families (especially if living in major population centers that are prone to looting whenever the power goes out).

When you look at how long it has been since Earth has been subjected to an event that could greatly impact our very fragile world today you have to realize we are living on borrowed time. The Carrington Event of 1859 would devastate our electrical grid today. The 1815 Tambora eruption capped volcanic events that were partially responsible for starvation as the Northern Hemisphere's summer temperatures in 1816 led to the year being known as the "Year without a Summer." If an event like that took place today the world would be in huge trouble, as our food supplies are already stretched very thin world wide, a year with little Northern Hemisphere food production would cause millions to starve. Any coastal event is going to lead to huge problems, as we have seen over and over, there are too many people living near the coastlines where danger lurks.

[Doc]

I was just at a very nice coat and tie cocktail party at a country club

Parking, serving or cooking??? or as an "escort"? (LOL--just kidding) -- Chuck Garvin, male prostitute!

1395

I agree that many non-extremist are planning ahead. I'd also say there are more middle class and lower middle class folks who see the problems more clearly than one would think. As taxes start to tickle down to those who can't afford them (see the AHCA), many more will have their eyes opened.

[suncat05]

Well, if we're gonna suppose, then let's suppose on this: let's say that event(or events, as the case may be) comes about. Do you really believe at that point that local law enforcement and/or the National Guard will be able to enforce the law and maintain order? I don't. Most of those folks will stay home and protect what they own. Yeah, you can bring the Army in, but that is only going to last so long before they get redeployed to another situation. The solution to that problem is what just may cause the biggest and worst problems: what would our clueless leader then do? I'll tell you and I promise you won't like it one bit.
He'll invite his 3rd world buddies from the UN into the US and give them free reign to do whatever the hell they want to do. And that is when the real shooting will start.
Does that sound too extreme to you? Well, if that event(s) do happen that is exactly what will happen, and when it kicks off you'd best be ready to deal. Do what ya gotta do.
From there it's gonna get ugly and be ugly from there on out. It's coming and it's not likely these nitwits in DC are going to do anything to help, but what they will do is continue to create more problems than they're willing or able to solve. That's just what they do, cause more problems in the name of solving problems that they have helped to create.
I am still in favor of building a gallows on the front lawn of every county courthouse in the US. That is the place to start solving those problems, and we can start with the politicians.

[KeithKSR]

Well, if we're gonna suppose, then let's suppose on this: let's say that event(or events, as the case may be) comes about. Do you really believe at that point that local law enforcement and/or the National Guard will be able to enforce the law and maintain order? I don't. Most of those folks will stay home and protect what they own.

We saw the failure of the local law enforcement and National Guard on a small scale during Katrina's aftermath, it was really ugly in New Orleans and we can bet the worst of it wasn't shown on TV.

I never bought into the philosophy that our government can't fail the way some have. Ancient Rome fell and we are much more vulnerable. I also do not buy into the thinking that another Civil War cannot occur, as our nation is very divided today.

[suncat05]

We saw the failure of the local law enforcement and National Guard on a small scale during Katrina's aftermath, it was really ugly in New Orleans and we can bet the worst of it wasn't shown on TV.

I never bought into the philosophy that our government can't fail the way some have. Ancient Rome fell and we are much more vulnerable. I also do not buy into the thinking that another Civil War cannot occur, as our nation is very divided today.

You're 100% correct Keith. Now let that happen on a much larger, broader scale and sit back and watch the fireworks erupt. Especially when the POTUS invites UN "peacekeepers" in to police Americans who are armed and who will not much like the idea of being told what to do by foreign "insurgents". Trust me, that is exactly what the thought process will be to most Americans.
That is when and how it would start. Think those foreign troops have any idea how many casualties they're going to have? Or about how many combat veterans there are in this country right now from multiple wars? Or how independent and self-reliant a lot of Americans really are?
They might be able to control the metropolitan areas, but the rural areas will never be controlled. Never. They can try, and they will die.
Everything I need I have readily available to me. There's lots of game & fish here. Plenty of water. Plenty of land to grow vegetables & fruits. I can adapt to a shortage of electricity. All I need is the basics that I already possess. And there are many, many more like me. You don't hear about them, but they're out there.
Life will have changed at that point and to survive you will have to adapt to those changes. Or surrender to a 3rd world police force that will impose UN rules on you and deny you your rights at every turn.
That's when it will become apparent as to who is a sheep and who is a lion.
Sound ugly to you? Just wait until it happens. It will, and it will pretty much go just like I've told you.

[KeithKSR]

You're 100% correct Keith. Now let that happen on a much larger, broader scale and sit back and watch the fireworks erupt. Especially when the POTUS invites UN "peacekeepers" in to police Americans who are armed and who will not much like the idea of being told what to do by foreign "insurgents". Trust me, that is exactly what the thought process will be to most Americans.
That is when and how it would start. Think those foreign troops have any idea how many casualties they're going to have? Or about how many combat veterans there are in this country right now from multiple wars? Or how independent and self-reliant a lot of Americans really are?
They might be able to control the metropolitan areas, but the rural areas will never be controlled. Never. They can try, and they will die.
Everything I need I have readily available to me. There's lots of game & fish here. Plenty of water. Plenty of land to grow vegetables & fruits. I can adapt to a shortage of electricity. All I need is the basics that I already possess. And there are many, many more like me. You don't hear about them, but they're out there.
Life will have changed at that point and to survive you will have to adapt to those changes. Or surrender to a 3rd world police force that will impose UN rules on you and deny you your rights at every turn.
That's when it will become apparent as to who is a sheep and who is a lion.
Sound ugly to you? Just wait until it happens. It will, and it will pretty much go just like I've told you.

The UN attempting to police America would be a nightmare for the peacekeepers. Some people have no idea how big this country really is, and how large an occupying force would have to be to be effective.

[cattails]

Let's see what the cliff looks like, seems like we are already there.

[jazyd]

looks pretty tall from way down here.

No matter what the House votes for, the Senate under Reid will not even look at it. Their idea of compromise is to do what they want as democrats.

I have actually voted for democrats in the past, even some black ones over republicans because I thought they were better for the job. Never again, will refuse to vote before I will ever vote for a democrat in my lifetime.


Let's see what the cliff looks like, seems like we are already there.

[KeithKSR]

looks pretty tall from way down here.

No matter what the House votes for, the Senate under Reid will not even look at it. Their idea of compromise is to do what they want as democrats.

I have actually voted for democrats in the past, even some black ones over republicans because I thought they were better for the job. Never again, will refuse to vote before I will ever vote for a democrat in my lifetime.

Seems like the Southern Dems that are sent to DC go from being moderates to toeing the liberal left policy line.