Tax Reform....good or bad

[Doc]

Trump and the GOP are all in for riding it to re-election and gaining a supermajority in the next election. Democrats painting as Armageddon, the 2nd sign of the apocalypse and the return of Satan (actually Satan's pitchfork because Trump is Satan) all in one. Me, I saw it as huff and puff from both sides. The GOP make it sound like people would be rolling in cash come Jan 1 but $1,000 to $2,0002 over a year is about $50 a paycheck, hardly equivalent to the hoopla they are talking. However I just did a quick comparison and my taxes will drop almost $4,500 a year. The last 2 years I have been hammered. Granted, one year was my business sale but last year my income decreased significantly however my taxes were up from the year prior to the sale of the business. For me, that is significant.

But the real benefit isn't the taxes but the stimulation of the economy. Growth and keeping jobs here has to be the point, the long term goal. Several businesses have already started with sharing the windfall, such as ATT with $1,000 employee bonuses and several large corps pledging reinvestment. Contrary the the left's complaint, it does not appear as it this is just money going into the rich pockets.

The other is the rollback of the insurance mandate. I've warmed to the idea of health care assistance for those in need but never on the idea of forced coverage and the government determining what is acceptable coverage. If I don't want my policy to cover birth control or prenatal care or pediatric dental, etc that should be my choice. This in essence breaks that because there is no mandate that I carry an approved policy.

Bottom line is the GOP went all in and the democrats called. Who wins the pot will be determined in he next 8 to 10 months

[Catonahottinroof]

I truly believe this is Trump's attempt to get the stores of corporate money that is off the shore back here in the US.
For all the political semantics, the rate of deficit at an estimated 1.5T over the next 10 years is better than the 9T of the last 9 years.

[Doc]

Well, if anybody knows how to do that, it's him.

[MickintheHam]

I belive another dagger in the heart of snowflake liberals is the companies raising their minimum wage to $15/hr. That’s occurred at Wells Fargo and Fifth Third. So much for trickle down not working. Wait til the fast food industry increases their minimums. The working poor will soon find The Donald did mor for them than any of the democrats in the last 12 years.

I’ll make one New Year prediction. Some Democrats will start voting with the Republicans in the House and Senate.

[Doc]

I belive another dagger in the heart of snowflake liberals is the companies raising their minimum wage to $15/hr. That’s occurred at Wells Fargo and Fifth Third. So much for trickle down not working. Wait til the fast food industry increases their minimums. The working poor will soon find The Donald did mor for them than any of the democrats in the last 12 years.

I’ll make one New Year prediction. Some Democrats will start voting with the Republicans in the House and Senate.

I hope you're right. I dont think the GOP is right all the time but a strong economy favors nobody, but advantages all. A welfare/entitlement state isn't about helping the poor. It's about beholding them.

[Darryl]

Trump is now my favorite President. Mindy and I will save $25,000+ on next year's taxes. What a novel concept; my wife and I work our butts off and we get to keep more of what we EARN to hand down to OUR kids.

Darryl

[KeithKSR]

A welfare/entitlement state isn't about helping the poor. It's about beholding them.

I agree, the welfare system is modern day political slavery.

[CitizenBBN]

I was hoping for more subsidies for happy hours but otherwise I think it's a good step forward.

Seriously it's not perfect, but it's a fair try and IMO it will do a lot to bring capital back into the US. The big goal is to fire up the economy and I think it can do that b/c of the changes in corporate rates and income treatment.

If the economy spends the next year on fire, people getting raises and getting hired, that's all good regardless of the particulars on this or that deduction.

[CitizenBBN]

The last thing welfare is about is helping anyone who is poor. The proof is simple: how many recipients has it lifted out of that poverty?

It's that simple. The goal is to get people out of poverty right? What's their batting average? 1 in 1,000? 5 in 1,000?

Of course it's obvious this is about keeping people in shackles and not making them self-sufficient. If they got to be self sufficient they'd start thinking for themselves, and that would be bad.

[KSRBEvans]

NY Times interactive calculator:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/17/upshot/tax-calculator.html

[KSRBEvans]

I like keeping more of my own money but so long as spending stays where it is (and by "stays where it is," I mean "continues to grow"--let's not pretend spending ever actually stays where it is), deficits will continue to grow. Some generation will have to deal with this at some point.

IMHO Bowles-Simpson was the last shot at dealing with our long-term financial structure in something approximating a bipartisan, responsible approach. Now it's tribalism and denial as far as the eye can see.

[KentuckyWildcat]

Trump is now my favorite President. Mindy and I will save $25,000+ on next year's taxes. What a novel concept; my wife and I work our butts off and we get to keep more of what we EARN to hand down to OUR kids.

Darryl

I just knew when reading that, you were going to invite all of KSR to the Final Four to watch the Cats this season. But I guess giving it to your kids is a good thing to do as well. :)

[KentuckyWildcat]

I seriously do not understand the rich get richer argument against this. Who cares if they do as long as everyone benefits from it. Can anyone logically explain that argument to me?

Note: I'm far from rich, we are probably upper middle class, but far from the top 2%...

[Doc]

I seriously do not understand the rich get richer argument against this. Who cares if they do as long as everyone benefits from it. Can anyone logically explain that argument to me?

Note: I'm far from rich, we are probably upper middle class, but far from the top 2%...

Its class envy. Nobody feels sorry for "the rich" who pay the majority of the taxes, in fact they are suppose to feel grateful because they are successful and have the money to pay the majority of taxes, because they are all painted as having gotten there by taking advantage of working class. No rich person ever treats their employees fairly. Give them a tax break and all they will do is hoard the money....because that is what the rich do. Newsflash, most of the rich got rich by investing, and reinvesting their money so it grows.

I do not understand how tax cuts are suppose to immediaely financially benefit the poor when the poor don't pay federal income taxes. Less than 50% of the population pays federal income taxes so you can assume that the lowest 50% of the wage earners fall in that catagory (ie the poor). So if you don't pay any federal income taxes there is nothing for you to cut. What the poor want is a handout, or entitlement. Over the years we have had many many of those. More than we can count. All at the expense of the rich taxpaying moneyhoarders. Those have been done in a mulitude of ways over the last 8 years, and haven't stimulated the economy. Lets see how this does. But common sense says stimulate the economy and EVERYBODY benefits. Those without jobs get jobs, those with low paying jobs get pay raises or better jobs, those who own business also see revenues increase. Does the guy flipping burgers see as much benefit as the guy who owns the McDonalds? No but then the burger flipper still is getting a benefit.

[KeithKSR]

I seriously do not understand the rich get richer argument against this. Who cares if they do as long as everyone benefits from it. Can anyone logically explain that argument to me?

Note: I'm far from rich, we are probably upper middle class, but far from the top 2%...

Dems complain when people who pay taxes get more of their money to keep, then rejoice when more of the taxpayers' money is handed to those who don't pay taxes.

[Darryl]

After working 140 hours every 2 weeks for 36 years; I feel I deserve to keep more.

Darryl

[Darryl]

[QUOTE=KentuckyWildcat;464459]I seriously do not understand the rich get richer argument against this. Who cares if they do as long as everyone benefits from it. Can anyone logically explain that argument to me?

Note: I'm far from rich, we are probably upper middle class, but far from the top 2%...[/QUOTE

Great point

Darryl

[Darryl]

I just knew when reading that, you were going to invite all of KSR to the Final Four to watch the Cats this season. But I guess giving it to your kids is a good thing to do as well. :)

I welcome any and all conservatives

Darryl

[KentuckyWildcat]

So there is no logical argument? :)

Brief summary of a conversation with my father in law went like this. Keep in mind, he is a CPA and claims to be a republican. And I hear several others say the same thing. I just don't get how you can take a stance without substance to it.

FIL: I don't like it, too top heavy

Me: Do you not want your tax break?

FIL: well yeah I want mine

Me: Well if you want, I know some good charities to donate your portion

FIL: well no, are you going to donate yours?

Me: likely so

FIL: Oh

Me: what would you have done differently

FIL: not let the rich get richer

Me: details?

FIL: Silence..........

[KentuckyWildcat]

I welcome any and all conservatives

Darryl

I've always been very conservative in my personal life. But not so much politically until the end of Bush/start of Obama. Obama really moved me that direction.

[CitizenBBN]

I seriously do not understand the rich get richer argument against this. Who cares if they do as long as everyone benefits from it. Can anyone logically explain that argument to me?

Note: I'm far from rich, we are probably upper middle class, but far from the top 2%...

"Social justice" isn't about people being better off, it's about people having equality of outcomes. They don't think so, but really it's more about being jealous of those who have more than it is about making those who have less have more and be better off.

There will always be those with more and those with less. Through differences in skill, intelligence and luck there will be differences, and those differences arent' bad, so long as the system is always growing the pie so everyone is constantly becoming better off.

But social justice isn't about differences or betterment, it's about keeping everyone equal and in line. From the social justice warriors on social media who want conformity of thought to economic social justice, all the same principles.

It cannot be rectified with individual liberty or economic freedom. They are the antithesis of each other. In the end one will win out over the other, and pretty sure my side won't win.

[CitizenBBN]

BtW, as a small business with a payroll I apparently get a 20% deduction right off the top. You know what I'm going to do with that money??

INVEST IT IN MY BUSINESS. I can afford some equipment to make things better, raises for deserving employees, some improved signage (that I have to pay a company to install), etc.

It's called economic growth. The Left might want to look that term up on wikipedia. It built the most powerful economic and military nation in human history, so maybe the socialists should sit down, STFU and get out of the way, let the adults run the country and help everyone have better lives.

Rant off.

[suncat05]

BtW, as a small business with a payroll I apparently get a 20% deduction right off the top. You know what I'm going to do with that money??

INVEST IT IN MY BUSINESS. I can afford some equipment to make things better, raises for deserving employees, some improved signage (that I have to pay a company to install), etc.

It's called economic growth. The Left might want to look that term up on wikipedia. It built the most powerful economic and military nation in human history, so maybe the socialists should sit down, STFU and get out of the way, let the adults run the country and help everyone have better lives.

Rant off.

Now CBBN, you "know" those Communist bastards are never going to shut up or sit down and be quiet or just get out of the way. They're Communists, they're troublemakers and agitatators and "community organizers" that call themselves "leftists" and "liberals" and "progressives", but in the end all they really are is just Communist straight out of Stalin and Lenin's playbook.

[Doc]

"Social justice" isn't about people being better off, it's about people having equality of outcomes. They don't think so, but really it's more about being jealous of those who have more than it is about making those who have less have more and be better off.

There will always be those with more and those with less. Through differences in skill, intelligence and luck there will be differences, and those differences arent' bad, so long as the system is always growing the pie so everyone is constantly becoming better off.

But social justice isn't about differences or betterment, it's about keeping everyone equal and in line. From the social justice warriors on social media who want conformity of thought to economic social justice, all the same principles.

It cannot be rectified with individual liberty or economic freedom. They are the antithesis of each other. In the end one will win out over the other, and pretty sure my side won't win.

Social justice is about diminishing those who were/are successful and rewarding those who were/are not because those who are did so by taking advantage of those who are not. In their world, the outcome will be equal, and those who had a better outcome for whatever reason need to be punished, and those who achieved less need to be propped up in order to realign the way things were suppose to be.

[CitizenBBN]

Social justice is about diminishing those who were/are successful and rewarding those who were/are not because those who are did so by taking advantage of those who are not. In their world, the outcome will be equal, and those who had a better outcome for whatever reason need to be punished, and those who achieved less need to be propped up in order to realign the way things were suppose to be.

Agree 100%.

Thus Obama's "you didn't build this" comment. They don't see success as being a result of hard work and intelligence and yes some luck, they see it as somehow repressing others to get ahead, robbing them of something.

When my business succeeds it's not b/c I'm here at my desk on Sunday Christmas Eve day catching up so we're ready for January, it's b/c I somehow got it off the backs of my staff and society in general, and we need to "fix" that outcome by sending more of what I made from it to those people to make it all fair again.

From each according to ability, to each according to need.

We used to call that Communism. Now it's "social justice". Kind of how "shell shock" became "post traumatic stress disorder". Same thing, just a softer term. Color me not fooled by the fancy shift in language.

[MickintheHam]

Most Wall Street analysts have become much more bullish for 2018 in the last two weeks. Most believe the impact of the tax reductions on businesses and the economy have been understated. Double digit percentage increases in the Dow and SAnd P 500 are expected.

[CitizenBBN]

Mick, if the re-patriation of funds happens, no doubt we'll have a boom at the Wall Street level. Estimates are as high as the trillions as to how much money is off shore that could return if conditions are favorable. All of it wont, but it's a huge capital pool.

But I think we could see a boon at the small business level too. It's not ideal, I'm still buried in paperwork and crap, but Trump only has limited control over that, esp. in just a year in office, but giving a 20% deduction right off the top is a great way to cut through the red tape and just help us out.

[dan_bgblue]

Repatriation of the money will also be a boon to the federal coffers.

[MickintheHam]

And to add to my first post. In the category of news you won’t see on CNN or NBC, Regions Bank has fallen in line with Wells Fargo and 5th Third raising its minimum wage to 15/hr.

[MickintheHam]

Well Doc, the positive economic news continues. I haven’t seen one Lib on facebook discussing the Apple news. I guess the Snowflakes are waiting for their talking points.

[MickintheHam]

Mick, if the re-patriation of funds happens, no doubt we'll have a boom at the Wall Street level. Estimates are as high as the trillions as to how much money is off shore that could return if conditions are favorable. All of it wont, but it's a huge capital pool.

But I think we could see a boon at the small business level too. It's not ideal, I'm still buried in paperwork and crap, but Trump only has limited control over that, esp. in just a year in office, but giving a 20% deduction right off the top is a great way to cut through the red tape and just help us out.

Citizen I believe you nailed it!

[Doc]

Well Doc, the positive economic news continues. I haven’t seen one Lib on facebook discussing the Apple news. I guess the Snowflakes are waiting for their talking points.

I look at my stock portfolio a couple times a week and am amazed. It making more money that I am working. At this rate, I'd be fine if Trump was getting a blow job in the oval office by an intern and then lied about it so long as his policies kept the economy "humming" like it is

[KeithKSR]

Repatriation of the money will also be a boon to the federal coffers.

Apple repatriating more cash than the budget of a lot of countries. 100% of the taxes from that are funds the US would not have received without the tax bill.