PDA

View Full Version : Bob Costas



CitizenBBN
12-05-2012, 12:53 PM
Jazy, brought up the Costas anti-gun rant on another thread, thought I'd bring it here so I didn't hijack it.

I have always hat a lot of respect for Costas . St Louis guy, where I went to school, good analyst. Liked the interview show he did.

Scratch him off the list. First off that's not the time or place for such things, and second it shows he's a fool (or a shill for the NFL, not out of the question IMO). Wouldn't know where to start with all the failings of his position, but we may start with the utter failure of the health care community and the NFL to address players with serious physical head injuries and resulting emotional issues.

So it's not that he had brain damage that was the issue, or how he continued to play with problems. It wasn't that as a player he became addicted to the pain meds given to him by team doctors to keep him playing and keep butts in the seats. It wasn't that he became violently unbalanced and an addict and became a threat to others while no one reported it or addressed it.

Oh no, the "problem" was the weapon he chose. If he hadn't had access to a gun she may have survived the stabbing or strangling or better yet they'd just suffer along in his addiction and misery. this is your solution to that tragedy?

Not regular psych exams for guys who have been hit in the head 3,000 times in their playing careers, not examining the fact that the NFL hands out pain meds like tic tacs so players can continue playing, not questioning the people who have all come forward saying "oh yeah he was messed up" as to why they did nothing, oh no.

Don't try to address domestic violence in terms of mental health or options to make sure people have a place to contact for help in those situations, or attacking it with marketing and messages like we did smoking to increase awareness and encourage people to act. Oh no, wait till they snap and are taking action to kill themselves or someone else and then try to keep the deaths to a minimum by limiting the effectiveness of available weapons.

that's the answer, even if that means the 100s of 1,000s of people who use handguns every year to defend themselves and their families are now toast. Screw the elderly lady who couldn't possibly defend herself with physical strength. Ignore the many 1000s of cases of handguns used to prevent violence every year.

Oh no, the best way to address people who are mentally ill and at risk of hurting others isn't to address their illness in any way but to make sure millions of other innocent people are defenseless against criminals.

Really? This is your logic?


The NFL failed from his team to their medical staff to the league and their policies. Their friends and family failed by being unwilling to seek help for a situation they now admit they knew was a problem. Didn't see him call them out did ya? What a gutless wonder, but it goes to the point but far easier to blame an inanimate object than the failure of his employer to address a known problem, i.e. the head injuries and drug abuse incurred in their business.

The whole incident reads like the script of North Dallas Forty. Concussions, erratic behavior including off field violence, drug addiction, domestic issues, indifference by the team and medical staff. Seriously, it's right out of a very unflattering movie about the NFL.

Wouldn't be surprised if Costas wasn't intentionally trying to shift blame from the NFL. This is the sort of thing that could raise embarrassing questions about how he developed a pain med addiction, how they medically assess people with possible concussions, etc.

Hey I know!!! Let's blame the gun. Lots of people will buy in and none of them want to hear how the problem in this tragedy is the most popular sport in America.

KSRBEvans
12-05-2012, 02:46 PM
It's been my anecdotal experience that most sports media, like most media, lean left. So I'm not surprised that Costas feels that way. I am surprised that he allowed his bias to come out in such force because he's been on the national stage forever and never really let it out before. Others like Keith Olbermann were incapable of keeping it in and you know pretty quickly where they stand.

Regardless of whether they lean left or right, I wish they'd just stick to sports and leave the other stuff out of it.

CitizenBBN
12-05-2012, 03:24 PM
Agreed Brian and had it not been so intertwined with his job and employer I would have probably left it at that, but for him to do that not just in an inappropriate way it was also the height of irony he was blaming something else for a player's behavior who was subjected to numerous head injuries and addiction by his employer which also is Costas' effective employer.

Sadly I doubt Costas even "got it." Very unimpressive for someone who otherwise seems bright.

badrose
12-05-2012, 08:21 PM
I think he apologized for his remarks and retracted a good bit of what he said. He also said it was foolish to attempt the discussion with such a small amount of time to devote to it. I'll see if I can find a link...

CitizenBBN
12-05-2012, 08:35 PM
I think he apologized for his remarks and retracted a good bit of what he said. He also said it was foolish to attempt the discussion with such a small amount of time to devote to it. I'll see if I can find a link...

Good to hear, but the damage is done, message sent. Can't unscrew the pooch. Also made it clear what he thinks whether he apologizes for his timing or not.

Googled to see, and here's him saying he apologizes for the setting (really just says he wish he'd had more time for a discussion) but isn't backing off his comment's content:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/bob-costas-not-backing-down-from-halftime-gun-comments/2012/12/05/a27b49e6-3e99-11e2-8a5c-473797be602c_story.html

FWIW he got a special NRA email on his behalf for his comments. That goes to many millions of members plus others that are on the list, not counting its reposting all over every gun board in the country. Think there's a lot of overlap with football watchers, that some of these guys didn't complain?

Monday Night Football pulled Hank Jr.s song for a comment not even on their show that didn't even do what they said it did (compare Obama to Hitler) but Costas will be right back on there. Now had he said something conservative and controversial do you think he'd be back? No way.

jazyd
12-05-2012, 10:18 PM
This damage is done.

Andyes I do believe he was helping cover for the NFL by not blaming teams but rather that stupid gun. He also was probably doing what his employer said as we know how NBC feels. And what is funny is what Rush said the other day, think of the violent movies put out by the same people who want those $$$ rolling in but yet it is not okay for any of us to own a gun for recreation or protection. By saying it was the guns fault he helps the NFL in their fight against former players in their suit against the NFL.

Amazning how screwed up this country is and how the media is pushing it further and further away from what it once was.



Good to hear, but the damage is done, message sent. Can't unscrew the pooch. Also made it clear what he thinks whether he apologizes for his timing or not.

Googled to see, and here's him saying he apologizes for the setting (really just says he wish he'd had more time for a discussion) but isn't backing off his comment's content:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/bob-costas-not-backing-down-from-halftime-gun-comments/2012/12/05/a27b49e6-3e99-11e2-8a5c-473797be602c_story.html

FWIW he got a special NRA email on his behalf for his comments. That goes to many millions of members plus others that are on the list, not counting its reposting all over every gun board in the country. Think there's a lot of overlap with football watchers, that some of these guys didn't complain?

Monday Night Football pulled Hank Jr.s song for a comment not even on their show that didn't even do what they said it did (compare Obama to Hitler) but Costas will be right back on there. Now had he said something conservative and controversial do you think he'd be back? No way.

badrose
12-07-2012, 10:54 AM
A great response from an NFL player:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2012/12/06/jovan-belcher-kansas-city-chief-nfl-guns/1752195/

CitizenBBN
12-07-2012, 06:35 PM
A great response from an NFL player:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2012/12/06/jovan-belcher-kansas-city-chief-nfl-guns/1752195/

I love the hippie notion that owning a gun is some how out of the norm, which is clearly the implication of a "gun culture". The whole South has a "gun culture". When I moved to Lexington as a kid I was confused when I found out some of the kids didn't have guns at home.

Nearly every farmer has a gun. Does that make farmers a "gun culture" that is "shocking" to borrow the description from one of the NFL coaches?

The vast majority of people in my concealed carry classes are women and older men. Few are stereotypical "gun owners." They are taking the class for self defense.

bigsky
12-09-2012, 04:50 PM
Most people where I live own several, and we hippies right along with the rest.

CitizenBBN
12-09-2012, 10:08 PM
Most people where I live own several, and we hippies right along with the rest.

It wasn't really fair to hippies, but Big Country hippies are different from coastal hippies too.

Really guys like Costas are fascists, social safety Nazis who think they know what is best for everyone.

bigsky
12-10-2012, 09:24 AM
Replace Costas with Charles Barkley.

jazyd
12-10-2012, 09:57 AM
One of the amazing things to me on this whole thing, how big is the % of football fans that own guns and hunt? Why would you want to tick off that big group of people by saying something that is an opinion and not fact, and saying when you don't have all the facts yet

Darrell KSR
12-11-2012, 01:31 PM
Where was Costas' rant about alcohol? Or driving?

CitizenBBN
12-11-2012, 02:56 PM
Where was Costas' rant about alcohol? Or driving?

He was going to get to that but they had to cut to a beer commercial. lol.

dan_bgblue
12-11-2012, 04:59 PM
Doyle takes sly shot (no pun intended) at Costas (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/21344659/nfl-problem-no-drinking-and-driving-is-bigger-problem-than-that)

CitizenBBN
12-12-2012, 12:03 AM
Here's a piece with some vids of Costas doing what all these guys do:

1) Calling for "tighter controls" without having any specifics on what that would entail and how those things would prevent the tragedies they cite as reasons for the controls.

2) Claiming they support the 2nd Amendment and the right to bear arms but then go on to be against public carry, for regulation if not elimination of private gun sales and of course the unnamed "tighter controls".

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/bob-costas-and-bill-oreilly-have-gentlemans-disagreement-over-gun-control/
(http://www.theblaze.com/stories/bob-costas-and-bill-oreilly-have-gentlemans-disagreement-over-gun-control/Of)
Of course as pointed out, Costas hasn't been on TV shows talking about the "alcohol culture" in America, which is a whole lot more pervasive than the gun culture, despite another NFL player death this week. Of course alcohol companies advertise a LOT on football broadcasts and the teams make huge money on alcohol sales. Anyone calling for "tighter controls" on alcohol? Background checks for alcohol sales, maybe if you've had a DUI or alcohol related conviction? Nope.

jazyd
12-12-2012, 09:17 AM
read a story yesterday about the NFL and the number of dui's by its players in the last two years, it has gone way up inspite of the NFL having programs to try to address it. Main thrust of the article was the lack of suspensions for dui compared to a suspension of at least 4 games in cases where players took something that had a 'banned substance' in it. Get a dui no big deal, take some cough medicine or a diet pill, 4 games w/o pay.

Like you said, alcohol companies pay big bucks to the NFL and media rights, can't tick them off.



Here's a piece with some vids of Costas doing what all these guys do:

1) Calling for "tighter controls" without having any specifics on what that would entail and how those things would prevent the tragedies they cite as reasons for the controls.

2) Claiming they support the 2nd Amendment and the right to bear arms but then go on to be against public carry, for regulation if not elimination of private gun sales and of course the unnamed "tighter controls".

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/bob-costas-and-bill-oreilly-have-gentlemans-disagreement-over-gun-control/
(http://www.theblaze.com/stories/bob-costas-and-bill-oreilly-have-gentlemans-disagreement-over-gun-control/Of)
Of course as pointed out, Costas hasn't been on TV shows talking about the "alcohol culture" in America, which is a whole lot more pervasive than the gun culture, despite another NFL player death this week. Of course alcohol companies advertise a LOT on football broadcasts and the teams make huge money on alcohol sales. Anyone calling for "tighter controls" on alcohol? Background checks for alcohol sales, maybe if you've had a DUI or alcohol related conviction? Nope.

Badinage
12-14-2012, 03:26 PM
The Post offers some gun facts:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

CitizenBBN
12-14-2012, 04:37 PM
The Post offers some gun facts:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

Hard to call them "facts" when #3 and #8 are completely opposite conclusions from the data.

I've also seen a lot more numbers showing gun ownership is up and at historic highs. I don't buy the Gallup data at all. I'm in the business and I know how many first time gun owners are out there getting carry permits.

I have yet to talk to or hear about a single person getting rid of their guns. Not one and I've talked to 100s of people on this topic. I've met many dozens who are buying their first gun. My carry classes are 30% or more people who haven't had a handgun before.

So if no one with guns is going gun free and lots of new people are buying them, something in their survey data doesn't add up. I talk with people all over the country. Not one going gun free or a friend or family member. Not one.


#9 is laughable. I've seen far more data indicating just the opposite, and anecdotally I can point to the murder capital city of the US for the last 30 years being one with very tight gun control laws. I refuse to accept that study in its entirety. I've seen far too much data to contradict it.

If you look at his methodology presented there it is drawing conclusions far beyond its data. They admit small sample sizes. Let's toss in massive data grouping like measuring all of Illinois where Chicago has much different gun laws from the rest of the state and far more murders. That aggregation lets the lower violence in areas with FEWER gun restrictions offset the huge violence in a place with the toughest laws in the nation.

That's a pitiful study. I've seen far better, and those all go just the opposite. This one doesn't even look at other major gun factors like conceal carry options for gun owners, etc. It seems to only look at safety laws.

Re the poll results, those numbers are even higher in other polls, but you have to be careful about the "issue polls" within gun policies. for example "ban semi automatics" to many people means machine guns or assault rifles. They don't understand it could cover all revolvers as well as all semi-auto pistols, effectively a complete ban on handguns. Ask that as "should we ban all handguns" and the results are totally different.

That's just poor survey and study methodology. In fact it's covered in Marketing Research 101, you have to ask the same question several different ways to capture that construct bias. Just reporting that one question is meaningless for interpretive purposes. Not sure it can be a "fact" since it's not properly qualified.


One thing I agree with: America is an historically violent country. Always have been more violent, more brutish. Ben Franklin talks about it.

Since I find it incredibly unlikely an assault rifle ban (if there is such a thing, there really isn't) will change a centuries old cultural norm, which means we haven't solved the problem of evil people doing evil things.

Facts that are completely opposite conclusions? Sounds like a sure fire Washington Post story. lol.

PS - there's a reason they contradict and it has to do with carry. Today's tragedy was yet again in a "gun free zone". ALL of these shootings are in places where they KNOW no one will be shooting back. At some point that's not a coincidence, it's a policy that attracts violence to the places we want it least in the world.

Badinage
12-14-2012, 04:43 PM
The goal should be to look every parent in the eyes, including those of twenty murdered children, and tell them we are truly interested in discovering the best fair way to minimize the events we saw today.

badrose
12-14-2012, 07:21 PM
Security. Surveilance cameras covering the parking lot(s) and entrance. At least two armed security officers; one in uniform for deterence, the other plain clothed. Metal detectors at the entrance.

CitizenBBN
12-14-2012, 10:45 PM
The goal should be to look every parent in the eyes, including those of twenty murdered children, and tell them we are truly interested in discovering the best fair way to minimize the events we saw today.

Not sure anyone, myself included, disagrees with that statement.

That's the super easy part. Then comes the hard part, finding those ways.

CitizenBBN
12-14-2012, 10:49 PM
Security. Surveilance cameras covering the parking lot(s) and entrance. At least two armed security officers; one in uniform for deterence, the other plain clothed. Metal detectors at the entrance.

A long dang way from my elementary school life when my grandmother would pick me up and I didn't need anything more than a wave from her to the teacher by the buses for it to be OK.

The only thing we had to be afraid of was that paddle with the holes in it. Can't help but wonder if the lack of those paddles and the lack of those grandmothers doesn't have something to do with the need for armed patrols in those same schools a generation later.

Of course I agree with you, that's the best option available with any near term effectiveness. I'd also support carry for other adults on the property as long as we had proper procedures for the kids not getting to the guns.