I'm back to video and sound questions

[Darrell KSR]

I have two good-for-what they do tiny cameras. Video is decent if not much action, audio is poor. Good limited use cameras.

I have a regular Canon video camera that does great video and audio (at my level), very easy to use, perfect for most of my uses. Main use now is soccer games and highlight videos, but the audio works well when used. That's a tripod device almost always, but it has good image stabilization if I need to hand record. I have done that for an hour at a time with good results.

I have an old Panasonic Lumix camera that records very well, too, high definition and good audio. I use that where cameras are handheld and accepted, but I want video.

Next I am looking at the possibility of getting a separate sound recorder and mixing the audio with a separate video recorder.

A) Is that hard to learn?
B) Any particular software that does it more easily than others?

I have in mind a Yi camera for video in situations where a wide view is called for, but good audio also desirable. Places where I would not have my Canon or Panasonic, and the primary objective is good audio, but better video desired than the tiny cameras would provide. I have in mind some audio recorders that are good, but I don't know if this is a many hours to learn, and pain in the rear to mix just right when getting the sound to match the singer. I have seen some hysterical movies where the actor's lips moved 3 seconds after you heard it. I don't want that.

I'm hoping technology has improved dramatically so that this is easy and precise. Get it matched up once, and the entire video and audio is synced properly.

Pipe dream? Realistic? Recommendations or thoughts?

[Darrell KSR]

Based upon my quick Googling and reading, it appears much more difficult to synchronize two different sources than I am willing to do. It sounds like you could do it easily enough with Audacity, a software program I have used, and another software program. But even after the initial synchronizing, it appears there is this concept known as drift where it would not necessarily stay synced the entire time, and then just too big of a headache for me to deal with.

[dan_bgblue]

http://blog.qazzoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/pulling-hair-out-man-large1.jpg

[Darrell KSR]

I'm in route out of town, but I will revisit it to give you grief, probably starting over the weekend.

You're welcome :).

[kingcat]

Avid is the way to go. I strongly suggest you check out media composer first, which is the only slightly limited, but free version of Avid's Media Composer,

I record using Pro Tools First, the free audio version, and you can get industry standard, professional results. Pro Tools, and Media Composer are industry standards.
http://www.avid.com/media-composer-first

[KentuckyWildcat]

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1084690-REG/tascam_dr_60mkii_portable_recorder_for_dslr.html?s ts=pi-ps

Does your camera(s) have an audio in? I like this thing a lot.

[kingcat]

Fwiw media composer is the platform for 95% of movies released in 2016. The now free version is reported to be just as capable. Most TV is also avid. I can't speak to the problems your having but I can vouch for avid having perfected elastic audio and creating a child like ease in stretching or generally manipulating audio. I'm sure media composer does the same for video
I just can't believe they offer such a program for free. Worth anyone checking out

[Darrell KSR]

Thanks, guys.

I will refocus on this probably not this weekend, but sometime next week.

A couple of the cameras I would be using have the external microphone ability to use that Tascam thing, KentuckyWildcat. I have looked at

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/757065-REG/Tascam_DR_05_DR_05_Portable_Handheld_Digital.html

and

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1260111-REG/zoom_h1b_h1_ultra_portable_digital_audio.html

Both of those are the small, handheld version--certainly not as good as the one you posted, but immensely better than the built-in microphones, and likely more than I'll need for my limited uses.

At least one of the cameras I might be using does not have the external microphone capability, however. That one is the boogie-bear and I may just punt on it, but Kingcat's suggestions and encouragement give me some hope I might be able to do something.

I have two main uses right now for video/audio stuff.

1) Soccer. Audio is irrelevant for it. The keys for it are whether I can video a full soccer field, and take half a dozen to a dozen plays a game, and "blow them up" without losing too much resolution. I am hopeful that is the case, as it will make my watching the games much more enjoyable.

2) Very limited possible uses probably--but if I am able to record my daughter in the theatre--and she's at the stage now where that's usually prohibited; they pay much closer attention to copyright laws and such, even though mine is solely for my own private keepsake--audio is probably more important than video.

Mostly what I have used for both have been the same thing--a nice, consumer level, Canon camcorder. Heavily researched, and it has not disappointed in the slightest. Been a very good performer, both outdoors and indoors, and the audio quality is, well, acceptable for what you get. It's actually good, I'd say, but not great. I have used my Panasonic Lumix camera for recording video, and it does a very nice job of HD video and acceptable audio, considering it is two low-level built-in stereo microphones only producing the audio recording. Not great, but pretty good.

The next step is going to a go-pro type camera device, and I know I will need better audio if I use it for theatre or something where audio is important, for sure. And I'd like to improve audio in both of the other situations, too.

So I'm trying to evolve a bit in both soccer and theatre to improve both.

For soccer, the deficiency is that it is generally recorded at ground level. I'm trying to get a better perspective. Club level games are usually not at stadiums, so I can't sit up high and look over people. Those games are in the Fall. School level games are usually in stadiums, so there's less of a need, since I can sit up high and get a better perspective.

I'm also trying to avoid being "that guy" that I see at a competing high school. He carries around a telescoping pole about 20 feet high, with a tablet screen monitor at his side, stands in front of everyone in the stands (why he can't do that from the stands, I don't know), and obnoxiously blocks everyone's vision a little. I might look at some version with a cable/external monitor in a similar fashion if my present plan doesn't work of using a go-pro type video on a 10' high tripod, and then do post-production editing to get what I want, but I'm going to give that a try first. It doesn't have to be superb quality video, just acceptable.

For theatre, if I am able to record, I need to capture better sound quality than I have done. So I'm thinking a separate external microphone option like the Tascam or Zoom would be the way to go, particularly if I can insert it into the camera source. If not, I'm not so sure I want to try, but again, I am getting a little encouragement (sorry, Dan--Kingcat let you down).

Anyway, that's what is coming.

[Darrell KSR]

Fwiw media composer is the platform for 95% of movies released in 2016. The now free version is reported to be just as capable. Most TV is also avid. I can't speak to the problems your having but I can vouch for avid having perfected elastic audio and creating a child like ease in stretching or generally manipulating audio. I'm sure media composer does the same for video
I just can't believe they offer such a program for free. Worth anyone checking out

As you can tell from my post immediately above this, you are giving me encouragement. So Dan is going to curse you.

[dan_bgblue]

Not at all. I was relieved and very impressed with the info provided

[Darrell KSR]

Not at all. I was relieved and very impressed with the info provided

So was I. The membership of this group never ceases to amaze me with what they know.

[kingcat]

The biggest draw back with the free version of pro tools and I assume media composer, is there can only be three projects at a time stored in memory.. To add more than that requires mastering it and storing it in whatever format outside of Pro Tools and off the Avid Cloud. And then you can open another project.
You can also purchase more, or just make do with three open projects at a time.

I also was limited to 16 audio tracks, 16 MIDI tracks, and sixteen Aux. tracks. while the paid version has unlimited tracks

[KentuckyWildcat]

King, what do you do to use these tools? Work, hobby?

[kingcat]

I have played guitar and sang all my life. Fronted several bands and had limited success writing and recording back in the early eighties. Done some video spots for WHAS in Louisville and had some stuff out on vinyl.
When my my dad passed, going on three years ago I kind of laid the guitar and the gigging down. At least until the last few months.

Back in the day it was pretty much all analog recording but of late Ive developed a keen interest in recording using DAW's (digital audio workstations). Started on Cakewalk and found it a little daunting so I went to Ableton and Reaper.

Cool stuff, but I was always interested in Pro Tools and recently they developed a free version that has proven exciting. The tech is still daunting however coming from an analog background

So I'm recording some original stuff with a friend of mine and learning the DAW while we go. After we get enough material recorded in a semi professional way we'll go back and start over,using what we have learned to lay and edit the tracks a second time. Then master everything and air from the cloud.

A hobby for the time being at least. We're in no rush to do things halfway and there's no guarantee I can compete as a producer. Really just something I want to leave of myself to my family

[BigBluePappy]

Do not mean to highjack the thread, but kingcat, could you give a list of some of the groups and time periods?

I was was once a journeyman bass player and surely we might have crossed paths...

[kingcat]

The David Austin band for most of those years. Played most recently with some Douffit boys from Leitchfield who used a different group name about every weekend I believe. Let's see three or four years with Big Dan Hoskins on bass , whom you might know. The group name was XXX and we had some good opportunities. Booked four weeks in Vegas at Caesars Palace and a two weeks before the trip the band had a falling out.
In the 70's I was with a band called Rockwedge and played the Northern Kentucky clubs with other groups like Parish and the..Something Brothers.
Wow, I cant believe I forgot their name. The Wolf Brothers!!, that's it
Worked with Jeff and Ron down at heartland music in a decent group. Played Jim Porters a lot it seemed. As I sit here thinking I cant recall our bands name either. Weird.

The recording stuff was with DAB, and Jim McArthur(another journeyman) shared guitar duties with me. He plays with Scarecrow now I believe..if they're still together. Worked with John Langley out of E-Town for a couple of years . Although we didn't play together per say you may recall Frankie Nunn, another bass guitar/front man/radio guy in the 70's and 80's who was real talented.
Let's see, other bass players..Troy Carter is a very good friend. He was more of the Toy Tiger, Phoenix Hill type player. Smack Dab, and some other old rock groups out of Louisville

Some family who played bass was Jack Leonard who fronted ET' and the Texas Troubedores for years. He worked the bottle just as hard though. He was a regular in the Nashville scene and hung at the record store, working the Opry through the week and odd weekends. Hung with Big Jim Vest who founded the original Nashville Cats and worked the house deal at the Stockyards club. He played with Paycheck on the Shove it album I believe. A great session steel man

My Dad was a great player in the Chet/Merle Travis style but turned down the road for the most part. he and the late Boogie Sherrard grew up playing together. Boogie went on the play with Ray Price for a while Dad stayed here at home preferring to work as a house guitarist for Small town Opry and Gold City Opry or sitting in when someone would call for him. Shared the double neck guitar with Joe Maphis one night there. Part of Joes act, and he couldnt shake Dad in the least, hehe.. I was a strapping teen then.

As for me, I got the old Strat out of mothballs a few months back and am trying to recapture a little of my abilities. Im one of those hillbilly rockers myself, although Ive covered about everything. Maybe not all well, but I prided myself on knowing what and when not to play..hehe. If anyone noticed I'd slide a little free bird and all was forgiven :) As far as vocals go I always hated my old nasally vocals, but sang anyway. Even covered Uriah Heeps David Byron and Ozzie stuff while attempting to hide my shoot far, dagguum accent. :) Fun days back when a B3 and a couple of tube leslies would cause a country boy to do that kind of stuff. Dad never really understood why I tried to talk with a British accent to help my vocals....come to think of it. It was kind of silly. ;)


Oh well I'm rambling again. Sorry

[BigBluePappy]

Wow, an impressive list. :unworthy:
I fear my orbit was not quite so high.

[Darrell KSR]

I just picked up a voice recorder (this one (https://www.musicmakersweb.com/listing/tascam-dr-22wl-portable-recorder-with-wi-fi/6421655?_aid=pla&hfid=6421655&gclid=Cj0KCQiAuZXQBRDKARIsAMwpUeS9s0rWO6SMXsH2avNo cCpm-Wv6VqP7OebDIPw9NoT2gsRfmv2h-wAaAkp1EALw_wcB)) for recording songs my daughter sings in recitals and plays and such. The idea is that it will be somewhat surreptitious, as it's sorta frowned upon now at these venues to do any recording. I can tell because they always announce, "no recording" and it's printed in the playbills and things they use. I'm pretty perceptive that way.

Nonetheless, for my own personal use and nothing else, I want to record for posterity what she does. So to heck with them, I say. I just don't want to be blatant.

I have a small "cube" video recorder that works ok for video, but is terrible for audio. And the main thing I want is the audio. I have a playlist with my daughter singing, and it gives me great pleasure to listen to her songs as I drive down the road. They can sue me for wanting to get another.

Anyway, how hard is it to "sync" the video from that small SQ8 recorder with the audio from the Tascam portable audio recorder to put together a video to watch? I'm not talking about an entire play or anything, just maybe a 3 minute song she sings.

Kingcat, did you answer this question before for me? I'm thinking you did, and I forgot.

[KentuckyWildcat]

I think so :)

[Darrell KSR]

I'm thinking I did too. My search must have been poor. I'll try again :).

[Darrell KSR]

Duh. Found it.

My first search was audio sync and it gave me a thread on Bobby Knight as the commentator, and BEvans giving Tunein advice on how to watch the game without having to listen to him, so it was worth it.

Then did a search for just "audio video" and sure enough, a great discussion and superb information provided by Kingcat. I'm going to merge these threads (rather than delete this one), in case someone else finds it of interest.

http://www.kysportsreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39473-I-m-back-to-video-and-sound-questions&highlight=audio+video

[Darrell KSR]

Great info, Kingcat...thanks again. I will be hitting this up next week if things go well.

[Darrell KSR]

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1084690-REG/tascam_dr_60mkii_portable_recorder_for_dslr.html?s ts=pi-ps

Does your camera(s) have an audio in? I like this thing a lot.

That looked impressive, but I ended up with the less impressive, but still Tascam DR-22WL. I may stick it in my shirt pocket for more clandestine recording at these events.

[KentuckyWildcat]

Love my Tascam but sounds like you need to hide yours.

[Darrell KSR]

Love my Tascam but sounds like you need to hide yours.

I'm not sure if they would be like, super mad, or just a little irritated, but decorum calls for discretion for sure. And I will hide, so you are right.

[CitizenBBN]

I'm not sure if they would be like, super mad, or just a little irritated, but decorum calls for discretion for sure. And I will hide, so you are right.

I was going to broach this question. These are performances where I'm sure a very large number of parents and families are in the audience, which would normally mean lots of recording.

is it that there is so much without the rules it would be distracting or some other reason for them? I just find it a little surprising both that they have the rule and that it isn't widely ignored.

[Darrell KSR]

I was going to broach this question. These are performances where I'm sure a very large number of parents and families are in the audience, which would normally mean lots of recording.

is it that there is so much without the rules it would be distracting or some other reason for them? I just find it a little surprising both that they have the rule and that it isn't widely ignored.

Tuesday may be different because it's a recital in the Music Hall Recital venue, and not the theatre, although when I attended the same recital last year, I did not see any recording done that I can recall.

The theatre venue--you never, ever see a camera. There's no recording and no photography. I think they pretend it's Broadway lol.

The key is, there are all kind of copyright laws and such that they have to protect. I get it. They pay royalties just for their people to sing songs or act in a play to the rights holders. If they permit recording, it violates their agreements. So I understand it. It's ignored many times in many places, but it seems not in the places I frequent often enough.

[kingcat]

This video should help a bit. Especially note the part about the sample rates needing to match on each device to prevent drift. Normally set at a 48K default for audio but not sure about the camera..



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZVNEo2dH9I

[Darrell KSR]

Oh my gosh--that video is fantastic, Dave. I'm sure I'll still struggle with it, but he goes through that so clearly even I can understand it. Thank you!

I'm not sure i can do the "clapper" thing, but maybe I can make some cough or something just before it begins to make it work.

[kingcat]

After doing a search for the most simple and effective video editor and reading a bit (if you dont want the added features and complexity of media composer first) this seems to be the top choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwx_gvvqjxE&index=66&list=PL6196B1D21D6810E7

There is a link for the free download at the end of the clip, top right I believe.

[Darrell KSR]

I bought Cyberlink PowerDirector 15 Ultimate a few months ago. My son uses it to put together his soccer video highlights. Is that something I can use with this, or do I need to go to one of the other software packages mentioned?

Whatever is easy is my top choice...err, provided cost is low (to zero.)

[kingcat]

Sounds like you are ready to sync audio/video to me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=39&v=V4EBEWqwQwY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=1yJegmVAxZQ

[Darrell KSR]

Thanks, sir.

[Darrell KSR]

Should be getting the Tascam tomorrow. Hope I get a chance to try it a little before Tuesday.

[kingcat]

Should be getting the Tascam tomorrow. Hope I get a chance to try it a little before Tuesday.

You should be able to practice syncing with any old audio and video files. That way you learn the edit controls and what you can do. As with multi track audio files I'm sure (what I work with), just knowing how you can manipulate the different tracks be they audio and/or video will be the biggest hurdle.
Syncing should be no problem since I believe you can grab and drag the tracks to where they lineup (I assume).
As a matter of fact, a person could take a music video clip, split the audio and video, and then sync it back together for practice I'd imagine. Worst you would have is two audio files (possibly) and a little delay between the two.
there may even be a function that auto-deletes the audio file from the video.

[Darrell KSR]

Nobody will probably be interested in this, but it's a really good deal if you're looking for something like I just purchased.

Adorama sells the Tascam DR-22WL 2-channels handheld audio recorder with Wi-Fi for $124.99. If you plug in the promo code (you have to look for it after you add it to the cart, but before you buy it, and click that you have a promo code), it will deduct $45 from the purchase price for a bottom line, free shipping, no tax price of $79.99.

Amazon is selling it for $116.

Promo code is BLACKFRIDY

Note the spelling. Just cut and paste it if you are interested.

Link to product page:

https://www.adorama.com/tsdr22wl.html?utm_source=EMW&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=AdoramaOrderConfirmation

[Darrell KSR]

By the way, I did not get any video Tuesday. But I did get the best audio I've ever obtained, by far.

[Darrell KSR]

Sounds like you are ready to sync audio/video to me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=39&v=V4EBEWqwQwY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=1yJegmVAxZQ

Wow, is that easy--at least, per the video. I still haven't tried it, but I am looking forward to trying soon. Maybe this weekend.