Sump pump or something similar?

[Darrell KSR]

Have an area of my yard around the septic tank which happens to be the lowest level in my yard. When there is a lot of rain, it puddles. I'd like to be able to take something--a sump pump or something--and move the water to a higher part of the ground, maybe even 100 feet away to the back of the yard where the woods start. It's probably 6' higher level there (just guessing--I could be way off).

Nothing deep, so I don't know if a regular sump pump would work, since I'm probably talking 2-3" of standing water.

What do I need? Remember, I have a rotator cuff injury, so I'm not a big fan right now of anything manual. I looked at a manual siphon pump and garden hose and thought, "maybe," then I got a pain about that time that reminded me it's not a good time for that.

(Also, cheap is good).

[dan_bgblue]

The area covered by standing water is how large? Also is the puddled area near any large trees? And one more question is it at the end of the septic tank that discharges water into the field lines?

[Darrell KSR]

Very small area. At the base, it's probably just a puddle maybe 2 feet square, but has created a small trickle "gulley" and then it has puddled about 20 feet from the base where it gets wider and flattens out. It's only 2-3" deep there, maybe.

I'm worried that the base of it may be deeper, though, because it hasn't dried up in the last couple of days. I would have figured that two days worth of dry weather would have dried it up, and it hasn't. I think I can see a little "current" in it, too. So I really want to go to the base, and move whatever water is there maybe 50 feet away or more.

It is not at the start of the field lines, but close to the opening that they use to pump it out.

Dan, what do you think about something like this--it won't hurt my feelings too badly at $50, and might be able to use it for more than just this somewhere along the road.

http://www.harborfreight.com/110-hp-transfer-pump-63317.html

I'm thinking I can get a 50' garden hose, thread it on it, and let it pump out the 2 foot area. Leave the trickle thing alone. Let it get dry and see if it fills up again.

I'm sure that the septic tank is filled, and probably needs pumping. Yes, I've been told that the septic tank is supposed to operate full, or nearly so, and I get that, but I wonder if I have too many solids in it so that it needs pumping anyhow. What I want to do is to get the area dry, and then pump it out and start "fresh"--or as much as you can, with a septic tank.

[Darrell KSR]

Oh--I bought some battery operated thing from Lowe's a couple of hours ago, but I haven't taken it out of the box, and don't think I want to use it. I just don't think it will be powerful enough to move the water 50 feet up. My wife tells me my estimate of the elevation change wasn't good--it probably is no more than a couple of feet, but I'd hate to get something severely underpowered. I don't mind testing it to the max, but I want it to work.

There's what I bought.\

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-Plastic-Submersible-Utility-Pump/4129038

[BigBluePappy]

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-P...y-Pump/4129038

Had to do a double take on that one...

[dan_bgblue]

Is your land underlain by bedrock close to the surface? If not then the easiest, permanent, maintenance free way to get rid of the water is to sink it.

[dan_bgblue]

I have no idea how long the HF pump would continue to function, but if it works just 5 minutes at a time for 10 years you could drain that hole multiple times over a number of drainages and since it is supposed to pump water up 40 feet in elevation, you should be good to go

[Darrell KSR]

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-P...y-Pump/4129038

Had to do a double take on that one...
Yeah, me too. I think I picked it up because I wanted something, and they had nothing else there at the time that looked anywhere near what I wanted/needed.


Is your land underlain by bedrock close to the surface? If not then the easiest, permanent, maintenance free way to get rid of the water is to sink it.
It's Birmingham. We just paint our rocks green and call it a lawn.


I have no idea how long the HF pump would continue to function, but if it works just 5 minutes at a time for 10 years you could drain that hole multiple times over a number of drainages and since it is supposed to pump water up 40 feet in elevation, you should be good to go
I've seen multiple people (not just this device, but others) discuss the fairly low quality of the HF power tools in general. Your thought process is pretty much the same as mine. It's a little bit of a risk, but I also have a 20% off coupon, too, which helps my feelings as well.

Thank you for your thoughts on this.

[KentuckyWildcat]

I've never looked for one b/c I never think about it. I'd love to some small pump to pump small areas of water off of my softball field. The field dries really fast, but a few areas will always hold water.

[KentuckyWildcat]

Actually now that I think about it. The dewalt wet/dry vac I've been wanting would probably be perfect...One more reason to buy it I guess.

[dan_bgblue]

Actually now that I think about it. The dewalt wet/dry vac I've been wanting would probably be perfect...One more reason to buy it I guess.

You know I never would have thought of using my Craftsman wet dry vac to do the job but would work as you said, perfectly


One more reason to buy it I guess.

yeah never know when you might need to drain a pond or something

[KentuckyWildcat]

Yeah, it is not a lot of water. Just 2 small areas. Probably not 5-6 gallons of water total. I've thought about those field bags also.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[CitizenBBN]

Permanent solutions:
1) big hole with rock to hold a quantity of that water, cover with yard
2) French drain trench that starts just below surface, goes deeper with rock on its way to your woods. Trench it out, fill with rock and cover.
3) Dig it deeper, put in some fish, call it a coy pond.

[Darrell KSR]

Well, opening the Harbor Freight transfer pump up, and it says to transfer clear water only. I'm thinking the "muddy" water has sediment in it, and probably shouldn't use it.

I'm now not sure....It's not expensive, but I'd hate to ruin it right away...I'm not planning on transferring sludge through it, but the water "ain't" necessarily clear, either...

[CitizenBBN]

Most cheaper pumps will struggle with silt.

Do you really want to pump it when it rains? I'm joking about the coy pond, but not about paying some kid to dig you even a 4-5 foot hole and filling it with rock then covering it. It would solve it for all but the very worst rains, and even with those it would drain much faster.

[Darrell KSR]

Most cheaper pumps will struggle with silt.

Do you really want to pump it when it rains? I'm joking about the coy pond, but not about paying some kid to dig you even a 4-5 foot hole and filling it with rock then covering it. It would solve it for all but the very worst rains, and even with those it would drain much faster.

I'm wanting to get rid of the water, then pump out the septic tank. But I want to dry out everything around it first. Maybe even a one-time thing. It hasn't really done this before, although years ago I had an issue with how the neighbors sculpted their back yard to create a current in mine, which we jointly fixed.

I now own two water pumps that I may not use lol.

[Darrell KSR]

I may go buy this one tomorrow.

http://www.harborfreight.com/16-HP-Submersible-Utility-Pump-1600-GPH-63319.html#

[dan_bgblue]

Darrell, just put a swatch of old cotton underwear, tshirt or tighty whities, over the end of the suction hose to filter out the dirt particles, or even easier than that is to keep the suction hose off the bottom of the water pit

[Darrell KSR]

Well, Dan, I'm sitting in the parking lot of Harbor Freight and that makes sense. But I told my wife that it was for clear water and now if something happens she will give me that "I told you so" look.

[Darrell KSR]

I kept it. The other said for Clear water only, too and I like this one better using a hose, for my purposes.

[kingcat]

Using a lawn aerator on that and the surrounding area sounds like the solution to me. there you are with that manual labor thing again though.
The problem is likely more to do with the grade and the surrounding soil

[Catfan73]

We put a French drain in in the back of my house to keep water away from the foundation. About 10 feet square and we covered it with pavers so it's just part of the patio. As with a lot of things in life though, often when you fix something you mess something else up and I've got two little sinkholes in the backyard now. That water has to go somewhere and it doesn't care where. Most of eastern Jefferson County sits on karst though and you probably wouldn't have that issue.

That would be my recommendation for a long term solution. If you're going uphill though just start fairly shallow because it's going to need to be pretty deep by the time you get to the other end.

[Darrell KSR]

Using a lawn aerator on that and the surrounding area sounds like the solution to me. there you are with that manual labor thing again though.
The problem is likely more to do with the grade and the surrounding soil

I'm having to resort to it anyway. I've had a shovel in my hands today, and been playing with water that might be partly septic tank; can't tell. Fun times. The grade of the lawn is a big issue for sure.


We put a French drain in in the back of my house to keep water away from the foundation. About 10 feet square and we covered it with pavers so it's just part of the patio. As with a lot of things in life though, often when you fix something you mess something else up and I've got two little sinkholes in the backyard now. That water has to go somewhere and it doesn't care where. Most of eastern Jefferson County sits on karst though and you probably wouldn't have that issue.

That would be my recommendation for a long term solution. If you're going uphill though just start fairly shallow because it's going to need to be pretty deep by the time you get to the other end.

That may be where I'm heading, but for now, I'm going to dry it up temporarily, get the septic tank pumped, and then see how things go. I'm betting you're on the money, though.

FWIW, Dan, the little transfer pump is doing a great job. It comes with a heavy plastic or rubberized base that fits on the end of the intake hose. The base is a filter, with little squares on the bottom that seems to work by itself. For all I know I am tearing it up doing this, but it's working great. It cleaned up the water in no time, but then I took a long shower to see what would happen--it filled up the hole again. So it may be a blockage at the septic tank entrance, or just completely full (we've had a lot of rain) and the water table is saturating the ground at that level anyhow. One or two times ago that I had the septic tank pumped they told me it wouldn't do any good because there was so much water there. I told them to do it anyway. It fixed the issue we were having completely, and have had no problems for years since then. I'm probably overdue for pumping it out anyway.

Joyous Saturday. And all I could have been doing was watching basketball or baseball.

[KeithKSR]

I've used a utility submersible pump over the last 15 years or so to drain low areas, swimming pools, etc.

I got mine at Lowe's, this is the more current version: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-0-33-HP-Thermoplastic-Submersible-Utility-Pump/3747643

I use the water hose connection and it will easily do what you want. Sometimes you will need to put something under it to keep it from getting buried in mud, but they work great.

[dan_bgblue]

I agree with you about the incoming water. It is either that or if there is a buried water line close by it might be leaking and keeping your little pond full. Only other answer is that you have discovered an artesian well. If there is higher ground around your property then that is a possibility.

Just a thought and something you might want to play with just for the fun of it is get a bottle of dark blue Rit clothes dye. Pour it into the toilet bowl in the house then flush a few times. Then go check to see if the water in the little pond is a blue tint.

[KSRdallen]

We put a French drain in in the back of my house to keep water away from the foundation. About 10 feet square and we covered it with pavers so it's just part of the patio. As with a lot of things in life though, often when you fix something you mess something else up and I've got two little sinkholes in the backyard now. That water has to go somewhere and it doesn't care where. Most of eastern Jefferson County sits on karst though and you probably wouldn't have that issue.

That would be my recommendation for a long term solution. If you're going uphill though just start fairly shallow because it's going to need to be pretty deep by the time you get to the other end.

We put a French drain in also and the problem is solved. We live on a cul-de-sac and our house is 20 feet below the street, so we get a large volume of water coming off the street and hill. We had some water issues under the house and it's completely resolved now.

[CitizenBBN]

I agree with you about the incoming water. It is either that or if there is a buried water line close by it might be leaking and keeping your little pond full. Only other answer is that you have discovered an artesian well.

Also he could chlorine test the water to see if it's from a water line. Will tell you right away.

Whether it is or it isn't I think Dan has hit on the real game plan here: declare it an natural spring, bottle the water and sell it as natural, GMO free spring water for $4 a pop.

[Catfan73]

Well we know it isn't from rising sea levels. Not yet anyway lol.

I checked on Birmingham's elevation and was surprised to see that it's higher than Louisville's.

[Darrell KSR]

To give you an idea of how much peaks and valleys exist here, my office is in Vestavia - 966' elevation - Birmingham proper is 643', just slightly north by a couple of miles. But my home is in unincorporated Birmingham, just south of Vestavia. I'm about 550' at my house.

Probably not sea water ;).

[KeithKSR]

To give you an idea of how much peaks and valleys exist here, my office is in Vestavia - 966' elevation - Birmingham proper is 643', just slightly north by a couple of miles. But my home is in unincorporated Birmingham, just south of Vestavia. I'm about 550' at my house.

Probably not sea water ;).

When the ground gets saturated the leaching portion of septic systems tends to backup and come to the surface in low areas, especially in clay type soils.

[Darrell KSR]

When the ground gets saturated the leaching portion of septic systems tends to backup and come to the surface in low areas, especially in clay type soils.
I think this is what has happened.

[dan_bgblue]

Has the little pond gone away for good?

[CitizenBBN]

Just occurred to me we need to delete this thread before the EPA sees it and declares it a protected wetland.

[MickintheHam]

Well we know it isn't from rising sea levels. Not yet anyway lol.

I checked on Birmingham's elevation and was surprised to see that it's higher than Louisville's.

Birmingham is in the Appalachians. There is no such a thing as a level lot down here..

[MickintheHam]

Darrell, i'll be happy to call ADEM for you. I sure they will have some suggestions for you!:party0035:

[Darrell KSR]

My backyard. I had a fun Saturday. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170410/a0808a200f8c3e5f91b85a139b767813.jpg

[CitizenBBN]

Looks like some kind of illegal surface mining operation without proper MSHA oversight. Unless that guy in the bottom right counts as oversight. He sure looks to be doing as much work as the average government construction manager. :)

[Darrell KSR]

By the way, the little transfer pump worked like a champ. It's cleaned up, and put away, but not for good. I still have a potential drainage issue that relates to my next door neighbor's yard being a little higher than mine, and a funnel effect on heavy downpours due to the shape of his yard. Mine is flat on the left side, sloped a little running from the back (before you reach the natural area/woods) to about 30 feet from the house, and it's sloped away from the house to meet there--sort of like a saucer. So the "funnel" from next door, to the "saucer" in my yard will produce a small collection area if I don't figure this out. Next rain I'll take another look.

About 10 years ago, I had another next door neighbor, who made a river current in his back yard with some weird drainage issues. He told me he had a friend who was an architect that told him it would drain well that way, and I told him it drained great--just dumped into my yard, interfering with the natural flow. He fixed it, and I had not had problems before or after.

I'll be interested to see now that we have four field lines working (instead of 1-1/2) and a new header line for the septic tank if the ground isn't saturated, and it goes into the ground, rather than into the collection spot. I'm not 100% convinced, but hopeful. We'll see.

[Darrell KSR]

The picture didn't do it justice--they dug on the left side where they didn't need to dig initially, because they got the field lines location wrong. My house is 30 years old, and there was some guesswork involved, even though they used that tool thing to guess better. So my back yard is very much tore up. Not that it was anything to look at to begin with, and the left side is a soccer practice area with a large soccer goal, and a large net going up between two poles, so big deal, but I will need to make the yard level.

I don't have a yard tractor, but I may have to buy one temporarily--maybe used, and then re-sell it--and drag a chain link fence or something around the yard to get it leveled out. Unless somebody else has a better idea.

[dan_bgblue]

I will be glad to offer suggestions, but before any of us do that, we would really need to see a few pictures of what the torn up yards looks like. jmho

[Darrell KSR]

Will do when I get a chance.

I'm starting to think about getting a tiller or a dethatcher to start with breaking up all of the dirt/mud clods that were created first.

But basically, it's what you'd think of if you had a bulldozer dig up about 4 feet deep all over the yard, and filled with rocks because I'm in Birmingham, and that's what we are. It's unlevel, bumpy, some places there are big....divots, I guess it's what I'd call them. It may just be many hours of labor intensive shovels and rakes, since I don't really have any good equipment.

This weekend I spent a couple of hours going through and picking out big rocks, putting them in a lawn cart/wheelbarrow, and wheeling them to the woods where I dump limbs and leaves and such. "Such" encompasses things like "gifts" our cat finds for us, etc. too. But there are more. There are always more. I wondered why I even tried.

To do it right, I'm sure I'd need to bring in a bunch of truckloads of topsoil. I'm not going to do it right. I'm going to try to get the bumps out, and try to level it the best I can. Really, if I can just keep the left side, which is no more than maybe 20 yards, relatively flat, I'm ok with it. It's the shooting area for the soccer goal, and really the only part that we use. I like to grill on the deck and overlook the woods, but that doesn't require anything of my yard. So just flattening it out some would probably be all that I do. I might add grass seed because it's just dirt/mud now, but I may not even worry about that this year.