Do Wi-Fi extenders work?

[Darrell KSR]

Like this one I'm looking at in my local office max?

300Mbps Universal Wi-Fi Range Extender - TP-Link http://www.tp-link.us/products/details/TL-WA850RE.html

[PedroDaGr8]

In general they work OK, not great but they are often the easiest way to extend the range of a network. That being said, they will cut your download bandwidth in half for devices on the extended network because they must both send and receive ALL data that comes to them. I would NOT daisy chain more than one. If you need to get a really long distance, there are other methods that are much better.

[Doc]

No. They are POS IMO. Far better to get a second router, attach it to primary router and put it in the attic. I wasted money on 3 extenders to WiFi my house. Rarely worked. Just ran a new cable into my attic, connected a second router and not had any issue at all

[Doc]

It will extend your range far better, cost less and be.much faster

[Darrell KSR]

Two routers? I didn't know you could do that. Interesting.

[KentuckyWildcat]

A wired access point would be preferred to an extender or 2nd router. The 2nd router would act as an access point.

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[badrose]

A wired access point would be preferred to an extender or 2nd router. The 2nd router would act as an access point.

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This.

[Doc]

Two routers? I didn't know you could do that. Interesting.

Yes. Just plug an ether net line into your router/modem and attach a router at the other end of the ether net. You now have 2 networks thru one model ( not paying for two services) and extend your range the distance of the ether net cable. I put router 2 in the attic so it could WiFi my master bedroom. No obstructions like walls.

[KentuckyWildcat]

The 2nd router will work and essentially be an access point. You just have to be careful with a router, a wrong configuration can kill your network.

True residential access points are becoming scarce. I think extenders are replacing them. They are out there, just a little harder to find. I don't look at the residential stuff, but I'm sure they make wired extenders also.

Edit/add: 2 routers on one network can kill your network. You can only hand out one range of IPs from one device.

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[PedroDaGr8]

No. They are POS IMO. Far better to get a second router, attach it to primary router and put it in the attic. I wasted money on 3 extenders to WiFi my house. Rarely worked. Just ran a new cable into my attic, connected a second router and not had any issue at all

They work OK for extending range into a room at the edge of the house, if they aren't too far. I have deployed them in a few places before to solve network issues. The best results have always been in rooms where the internet KINDA works but drops a lot. They are not magic though and they certainly don't work nearly as well as they claim.

Truthfully, what you mentioned is what I considered at first but I worry too advanced for Darrell to setup. One, the fact that you need a hard wire to the second location is not always easy to accomplish. Two, setting up the second router as an access point isn't always straightforward. That being said, they do offer AP which are easier to setup but there is still issue one.


@BigD - I think I should clarify the difference between a wireless router and a wireless access point. A wireless router is actually two devices in one a router which handles things like assigning IP addresses, providing internet access, firewall duties, etc. and a wireless access point to handle wireless connections. A wireless access point, lacks all of the router circuitry. It is basically a dumb wireless entry point to the network, it relies on the other router to handle the routing functions.

As for getting setup, first off, you need to be able to get a wired connection near to wherever you want the second network to be. Then from there, there are actually two directions you can head. The most obvious is setting up a wireless access point. This requires either a router that can be setup in wireless access point mode or an actual wireless access point. This basically extends your wireless network out in one seamless unit. Your network devices will hand-off between the router and access point with zero lag or issues. The second option, is to use the second router as its own independent network, this is easier to find a device but harder to setup without breaking your internet. It also has the drawback that when your device changes networks there can be a momentary drop in service during the change over.

[Darrell KSR]

(Dizzy)

[PedroDaGr8]

(Dizzy)

I forgot to ask, what router do you have right now? Even a picture of it from your phone would suffice.

[KentuckyWildcat]

(Dizzy)
If you can run a cable, get an access point.

If you can't, get an extender.

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[Darrell KSR]

Here's my blazing fast cable internet. This is the same floor as the router, just on opposite ends of the house...

5932

[Darrell KSR]

Earlier I reset the router and the modem by unplugging both, and at least, standing next to it, I got a 36 Mbps speed. That lasted about two minutes before returning to the land of extremely low single digits 1-2.50 Mbps...

I've had some weird readings where the upload speed has been as much as 3-4x faster than the download speed, too. But the upload speed wasn't blazing fast, just hitting 5+ and in comparison, it just seemed that way.

[Darrell KSR]

5934

[PedroDaGr8]

That is really bad. What model of router do you have?

[Darrell KSR]

Netgear?

5936

[Darrell KSR]

It's inconsistent as heck.

Current (but I am closer).

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161119/32e44b4c90ad235f6f04e97ec2dc5068.jpg

[PedroDaGr8]

OK, it is a Netgear WNDR-3800 based on my quick google image search for something that looks similar. That router has a really really bad reputation online. Many reports of the 2.4GHz channel dying and the 5GHz channel only being good for like 30-50ft. Based on what you are describing (with the signal getting worse over time) you might have a dying radio.

There is a good deal going on right now on this router from T-Mobile: http://www.t-mobile.com/accessories/t-mobile-wi-fi-cellspot-router.html for $60. It has custom firmware that prioritizes T-Mobiles WiFi Calling traffic (which is good if you have T-Mobile). Otherwise, it is an Asus RT-AC68U (a very reputable router) and has 802.11ac AC1900 signaling for higher speeds and what not. If you so desire, you can actually convert it to the original Asus firmware instead of using the T-Mobile variant firmware but it is not necessary.

This is likely the best setup based on your current device, needs and abilities. I can't promise it reaches every corner of the house but it should be way better than what you are currently using.

[Darrell KSR]

I wouldn't say it's dying, just inconsistent. Always has been. The 64+ was flying a few minutes ago. The 1 a couple of hours ago was excruciating.

But if there is something better for a quick fix for that low, I'm all for it. And we do have T-Mobile, but don't use the Wi-Fi calling, although I guess we could. I have a home number now, but haven't used it, either.

Would you just literally remove the old router and replace it with this?

[PedroDaGr8]

Last time I changed routers, it was plug it in, set the network name, router password (always change this from the default) and wifi password and done.

[Darrell KSR]

I ordered it. That will be a big hit in my house if it helps the WiFi signal to my son and daughter.

I have an ethernet cable I'm planning on running downstairs to my little converted office, but I may see if the signal might reach there anyway.

I don't really know how the WiFi calling thing can help me, but we do have T-Mobile, so maybe I can even benefit from that. Thanks, Pedro! The price seemed really good.

[PedroDaGr8]

I ordered it. That will be a big hit in my house if it helps the WiFi signal to my son and daughter.

I have an ethernet cable I'm planning on running downstairs to my little converted office, but I may see if the signal might reach there anyway.

I don't really know how the WiFi calling thing can help me, but we do have T-Mobile, so maybe I can even benefit from that. Thanks, Pedro! The price seemed really good.

This is an AC1900 router, which is faster than the N router that you had before. So from a raw speed perspective alone it should be faster. It should have enough power to reach the edges of your house. If it doesn't (ie you have a really old house with a lot of metal in the walls) then you have no other option than running some hardwires and hooking up some access points.

Truthfully, your description of your router being tempermental means that it is possibly on its way out. The rapidly degrading performance after a reset often indicates that. So either way, this is likely a good purchase for you.

WiFi calling comes into play when you don't have a strong T-Mobile signal. You can use the WiFi calling to connect your phone to T-Mobiles voice neetwork so that you can make/receive voice calls, get text messages, etc. I have found it incredibly useful when travelling abroad. Just connect to a WiFi hotspot, turn on wifi calling and I can call like I am still in the states.

[Darrell KSR]

This is an AC1900 router, which is faster than the N router that you had before. So from a raw speed perspective alone it should be faster. It should have enough power to reach the edges of your house. If it doesn't (ie you have a really old house with a lot of metal in the walls) then you have no other option than running some hardwires and hooking up some access points.

Truthfully, your description of your router being tempermental means that it is possibly on its way out. The rapidly degrading performance after a reset often indicates that. So either way, this is likely a good purchase for you.

WiFi calling comes into play when you don't have a strong T-Mobile signal. You can use the WiFi calling to connect your phone to T-Mobiles voice neetwork so that you can make/receive voice calls, get text messages, etc. I have found it incredibly useful when travelling abroad. Just connect to a WiFi hotspot, turn on wifi calling and I can call like I am still in the states.
Pedro, the router has acted that way since we got it two months ago. I think it must just be bad, period.

[badrose]

Darrell, what speed does your service provide?

[Darrell KSR]

badrose, I'm not certain, but it was 64+ Mbps yesterday when I tested. That's blazing fast, and real life speed.

Of course, it was also 1 Mbps when I tested yesterday, too.

[badrose]

badrose, I'm not certain, but it was 64+ Mbps yesterday when I tested. That's blazing fast, and real life speed.

Of course, it was also 1 Mbps when I tested yesterday, too.

Is it part of a bundle with your TV service? The reason I ask is my internet is provided by TWC and my download speeds range from the high 200's to the mid-300's mbps. (although it is hardwired). My TV service is through Dish. Had to get a compatible router/modem to make it work, but it also provides a strong signal throughout the house even with doors and the set-up in in a corner of the house. Prior, we had to reset infrequently to restore wifi connections. Laptops, cell phones, and tv's all pulling off of it.

[Darrell KSR]

Charter Spectrum limit is 60 Mbps where I am, although I understand some areas are 300.

[Darrell KSR]

Worried that it's the modem, rather than the router. Connected to the WiFi fine now, but no Internet connection.

[Darrell KSR]

They are sending a technician out. Said 50% packet loss. Have no idea what that means. Sounded bad.

[badrose]

Did they check it outside or did they have you run something?

[Darrell KSR]

Checked it through their computer system while I was on the phone.

[badrose]

They'll check their connections outside then check your speed on the inside after that. It might be all on their end.

[dan_bgblue]

They are sending a technician out. Said 50% packet loss. Have no idea what that means. Sounded bad.

That is bad for sure. Just imagine a plane trip to LA. The packets are your luggage. You put 10 of them on the plane and only 5 arrive in LA

[Darrell KSR]

Hopefully it will fix something and the new router I get tomorrow will help with the reception to various areas in the house, too.

[PedroDaGr8]

They are sending a technician out. Said 50% packet loss. Have no idea what that means. Sounded bad.
50% packet loss is exceptionally horrible. A strong healthy connection will have less than 1% packet loss, if not a fraction of a percent.

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[Darrell KSR]

Great--hopefully they can fix the packet loss thing, I get my new router in tomorrow, and then I'll be cooking with gas after Tuesday.

[CitizenBBN]

Coming late to this D, Sorry.

One thing you can do is test hardwired if possible, through the router. That eliminates the wifi part of things and will tell you more about whether it's in the router. Ideally just test hardwired right to the modem direct into a computer, then through the router hardwired. Then you'll know exactly what is wrong, it's either the router, the modem or the routher's wifi.

I won't be a bit surprised if it's your internet/modem. My time warner here is really inconsistent, drops all the time even on business service. their modems are junk too.

[Doc]

That is bad for sure. Just imagine a plane trip to LA. The packets are your luggage. You put 10 of them on the plane and only 5 arrive in LA

That good for DELTA

[Darrell KSR]

Lol Doc.

I'm at home with the technician. He scoffed at the person sitting in the office telling me there was a 50% packet loss. Says he looks at the same thing they do and they can't tell that. He then connected, sent 10,000 packets, and not a single one was lost.

He's now checking the outside connections and believes they are probably OK, based on how I describe the issues. Just eliminating all the possibilities before arriving at what he surmises is the issue - modem, in a hardware/software dual issue. Apparently they had several software updates to their modems in the last few weeks, and sometimes it doesn't take properly. So the idea here is to check everything, and probably replace the modem, and see if that is a fix.

Will update....

[Darrell KSR]

Modem replaced, everything fixed.

[Darrell KSR]

And the rest of the story.

After the modem was replaced, it remedied the problem of internet being down, or for all intents and purposes, being down. Tech guy was right, it needed a new modem.

Still sporadic and slower than it should be speeds throughout the house, so at that point, we replaced the router with the one Pedro mentioned above from T-Mobile/Asus. What a difference.

We had no, or virtually no, wi-fi coverage downstairs previously. It didn't matter that much because we had an ethernet cord hard-wired downstairs so it worked in the only place that was a regular user of it.

Now getting about 20 Mbps download and 6 upload in places where there was no coverage before. That's amazing. The limit for our area with Charter Cable is 60 (I get 64 in the immediate vicinity on wi-fi), but 20, for our purposes, will work fine.

Haven't tried any of the cell phone features for wi-fi calling (we have T-Mobile as our cell phone provider) yet, but happy the Asus router is better than the one they provided.

[kingcat]

Late to the party as usual gang!

Extenders in general just don't work like advertised.. Not sure how that relates to WiFi however

http://images.clipartpanda.com/adultery-clipart-sad-couple-cry-cartoon-vector-illustration-crying-upset-argument-divorce-adultery-concept-35705143.jpg

[PedroDaGr8]

And the rest of the story.

After the modem was replaced, it remedied the problem of internet being down, or for all intents and purposes, being down. Tech guy was right, it needed a new modem.

Still sporadic and slower than it should be speeds throughout the house, so at that point, we replaced the router with the one Pedro mentioned above from T-Mobile/Asus. What a difference.

We had no, or virtually no, wi-fi coverage downstairs previously. It didn't matter that much because we had an ethernet cord hard-wired downstairs so it worked in the only place that was a regular user of it.

Now getting about 20 Mbps download and 6 upload in places where there was no coverage before. That's amazing. The limit for our area with Charter Cable is 60 (I get 64 in the immediate vicinity on wi-fi), but 20, for our purposes, will work fine.

Haven't tried any of the cell phone features for wi-fi calling (we have T-Mobile as our cell phone provider) yet, but happy the Asus router is better than the one they provided.

Thats great to hear, 20Mbps is still a solid connection. I am glad that it is working MUCH MUCH better.

Truthfully, there are some new technologies that are starting to come onto the market that might be useful in the near to distant future but they are a little too nascent for me to recommend them yet. Google Wifi and Plume are two examples. Too new, too many bugs, I imagine in 3-5 years those technologies will be what ppl are using around their houses to ensure a solid connection.

[Darrell KSR]

This is 45-50 feet away, other end of the house, same floor.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161211/99c7b5e7418d49ac08ea2a9e0841c464.jpg

[PedroDaGr8]

This is 45-50 feet away, other end of the house, same floor.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161211/99c7b5e7418d49ac08ea2a9e0841c464.jpg

That is downright excellent! I can't even get those speeds now from my ISP (stupid Comcast)

[Darrell KSR]

Remind me not to complain when my speed slows down.

Sitting in a McDonald's in Bay Minette, AL (close to Mobile). Here's my blazing speed for my "Edge" network I get here (4 bars!) and McDonald's own Wi-Fi, compared to the most recent at home.

Sigh.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161215/2728a671816860435376facf98375b4d.jpg

[KSRdallen]

Thats great to hear, 20Mbps is still a solid connection. I am glad that it is working MUCH MUCH better.

Truthfully, there are some new technologies that are starting to come onto the market that might be useful in the near to distant future but they are a little too nascent for me to recommend them yet. Google Wifi and Plume are two examples. Too new, too many bugs, I imagine in 3-5 years those technologies will be what ppl are using around their houses to ensure a solid connection.

Returning to your comments here, Pedro. After reading extensively and talking with our univeristy CIO, I decided to go with Google WiFi. It’s transformed our signal and consistency of it throughout the house. The only thing I don’t like is not being able to adjust the channel of each mesh unit. Fortunately, the two farthest units have found a channel other than the one other WiFi system I can see (my neighbor, who appears to be using an extender :)). Since there’s not been any apparent channel conflict issue so far, even that hasn’t been an issue. I’m very happy with the mesh system.

[PedroDaGr8]

Returning to your comments here, Pedro. After reading extensively and talking with our univeristy CIO, I decided to go with Google WiFi. It’s transformed our signal and consistency of it throughout the house. The only thing I don’t like is not being able to adjust the channel of each mesh unit. Fortunately, the two farthest units have found a channel other than the one other WiFi system I can see (my neighbor, who appears to be using an extender :)). Since there’s not been any apparent channel conflict issue so far, even that hasn’t been an issue. I’m very happy with the mesh system.

Yep, the mesh routers will handle all of the channel allocation and point-to-point routing on the fly. THis allows them to "work around" issues which might pop up suddenly (like a cellphone in the house that suddenly turns on its WiFi access point). They have grown leaps and bounds since I made my comment and now would heavily recommend them. The Google WiFi is basic but good, there are some higher power ones which are double or triple channel units. Overall, these are MUCH MUCH better devices for homes than the traditional router because you in essence customize the wifi coverage to the shape of your house.

[KSRdallen]

Yep, the mesh routers will handle all of the channel allocation and point-to-point routing on the fly. THis allows them to "work around" issues which might pop up suddenly (like a cellphone in the house that suddenly turns on its WiFi access point). They have grown leaps and bounds since I made my comment and now would heavily recommend them. The Google WiFi is basic but good, there are some higher power ones which are double or triple channel units. Overall, these are MUCH MUCH better devices for homes than the traditional router because you in essence customize the wifi coverage to the shape of your house.

I looked at the other ones that have more bells and whistles, but the costs were going up in comparison. The Google system seemed a good middle ground. Thanks for the follow up!

[blueboss]

I bought a Net Gear N300 and it works fine. I needed to boost the signal for an outdoor security camera at the rear of my house. I’m getting crystal clear vids after hooking it up.


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[PedroDaGr8]

Returning to your comments here, Pedro. After reading extensively and talking with our univeristy CIO, I decided to go with Google WiFi. It’s transformed our signal and consistency of it throughout the house. The only thing I don’t like is not being able to adjust the channel of each mesh unit. Fortunately, the two farthest units have found a channel other than the one other WiFi system I can see (my neighbor, who appears to be using an extender :)). Since there’s not been any apparent channel conflict issue so far, even that hasn’t been an issue. I’m very happy with the mesh system.

FYI for all, Amazon has the Google Wifi 3-pack for $212 right now.

https://www.amazon.com/Google-WiFi-system-3-Pack-replacement/dp/B01MAW2294/

it says $250 but will drop to $212 during checkout.

[KSRdallen]

FYI for all, Amazon has the Google Wifi 3-pack for $212 right now.

https://www.amazon.com/Google-WiFi-system-3-Pack-replacement/dp/B01MAW2294/

it says $250 but will drop to $212 during checkout.

Nice PSA. Sorry I didn’t wait!

[Darrell KSR]

I don't know what it is, but I couldn't see how to buy it anyway.

Sounds like something I could use, two upstairs and one downstairs, maybe? My house isn't big.

[PedroDaGr8]

I don't know what it is, but I couldn't see how to buy it anyway.

Sounds like something I could use, two upstairs and one downstairs, maybe? My house isn't big.

To explain the difference between these (MESH network) and WiFi Extenders: WiFi extenders are in essence just "rebroadcasters" and end up using half of the bandwidth of the network to do so. Think of them like that chatty person at work who blabbers everything they hear. They spend half their time listening and the other half spreading it. Anything that comes in, goes back out.

Mesh networks on the other hand, are made up of a number of essentially tiny "smart" access points called nodes. These nodes communicate with each other and establish a separate channel between themselves to manage data transfer (rather than rebroadcasting). The individual nodes talk to each other via this backend and the whole network decides on the fly the fastest and most efficient way to route the data to you. Furthermore, unlike WiFi extenders which repeat everything they hear, only the data that needs to leave said node gets sent to it. They are more like the normal desirable information flow at work. Those that need to know are connected to whom they should and get only the information they should, without all of the other garbage. This is much more efficient both from a network usage perspective, but also a flexibility perspective. They are honestly the best design (so far) for a high performing home network.

On that flexibility note, you are not limited to just the two or three nodes you get in a pack; you can add as many as you want. Though signal interference can limit this to around 6-15 in a limited area. That being said, this means in difficult environments (like a concrete block building, long building, multiple floors, etc), you can add more nodes to ensure seamless coverage. This gives you the flexibility to tailor the network coverage strength and shape to the needs of each person/situation.

[CitizenBBN]

Mesh is the way to go. I'm not up on what's available for residential/consumer use in that area, but we built our commercial stuff using mesh. We built our own boxes with routerboards and wifi cards, put in 9dbi antennas and we were getting 4 watts equivalent power, the max allowed by FCC on those frequencies. Could get over a mile line of sight.

Then we set the routerOS to run mesh, so you plug them in and you get instant network.

Anyway, I just installed a new ubiquiti unit in our building that has a whole node management system going on. I only needed the one, but ubiquiti makes top notch stuff and it was off the shelf. But it does take more skill to setup. Now they run the thing with an app that's powerful but you can't work without it either, so it's good for company stuff but not for simple home networks. If they popped up and connected and you ran that would be good, they don't do that.

But yes, if there's a consumer unit that's mesh it's the way to go.

have I waxed rhapsodic enough about wifi yet? I think I need a brain....