looks like Trumps going to starting pulling out the big guns.

[Doc]

I anticipated that he was slow playing and going to wait until the last minute to go full bore attack mode. Well, looks like that is coming to be. Just saw a Trump commercial that really hits the Benghazi debacle. It shows pictures of survives asking questions, then goes to one of Christopher Stevens with a question "he like to ask but can't" then shows his tombstone.

[CitizenBBN]

I pray this thing turns and Trump pulls it out.

I have my worries about Trump, and I'll cringe every week about something I'm sure, but the idea that this country is so lost that we'd elect a criminal who will flat sell us out to the highest bidder makes me want to be ill, physically ill.

It's OK to differ on ideology and econmics, but to be so lost we'd elect someone whose ideology is to steal everything they can for themselves and the ruling elites means the national dream of individual liberty and the power of the People is dead.

[Doc]

Pretty much how I feel, although it intrigues me to see Trump as President. IMO it's time to have a non politician in charge

[StuBleedsBlue2]

but the idea that this country is so lost that we'd elect a criminal who will flat sell us out to the highest bidder makes me want to be ill, physically ill.

It's OK to differ on ideology and econmics, but to be so lost we'd elect someone whose ideology is to steal everything they can for themselves and the ruling elites means the national dream of individual liberty and the power of the People is dead.

Pretty good Trump description, less so many other "redeeming" qualities.

[CitizenBBN]

Pretty good Trump description, less so many other "redeeming" qualities.

HOrseshit.

You know the difference between a business man engaged in arms length transactions and a public servant taking bribes? there is one, and it's huge.

so far the worst Trump has been accused of doesn't come close to the gross negligence and influence peddling of the Clinton clan, but feel free to keep living in fantasyland.

What laws has he supported and voted for that concentrated power in Wall Street? How many millions has he taken from them?how many deals with Russia has he approved to allow them to own things as strategic as uranium? how involved was he in the HRC in Haiti which is apparently missing about $100 million? Has he exposed our national secrets to our enemies in "extremely careless" ways? Has he collected HUNDREDS of MILLIONS from foreign contries that are used to finance their lifestyle and create a power base for which they then collect more money? Has he sat on his ass while men under his command died and done nothing?

No, he's just a businessman making deals and sometimes making money, sometimes losing it, and given that he's audited every year with no consequences so far apparently following the laws of the land in doing so.

He's far from perfect, he's obnoxious and egotistical and crass, but he's not corrupt. When you're in private business and you do all you can to make money for yourself that's the whole point. When you hold public office and do it that's corruption. If he wins and dos it as President I'd want him in jail as much as I want Hillary there now.

[Doc]

He probably is a little corrupt, but the Clinton's take corrupt to a new level.

[CitizenBBN]

He probably is a little corrupt, but the Clinton's take corrupt to a new level.

does he bend the rules, slow pay people he can, even lie in arms length deals and negotiations? Sure. Anyone here think you do what he's done in business by being Jimmy Stewart? That's not "corruption". corruption by definition involves betrayal of the public trust, and he's not a holder of that trust unless he wins that race. It may not be ethical in the Jimminy Cricket sense, but it' isnt corrupt.

Would he still play some favorites, etc? Yes, probably, but I don't expect lily white. I do expect such things to be such a minor part of the overall system that they aren't an issue, and yes there's where Clinton fails.

[KeithKSR]

Clinton's corruption has endangered American lives.

[Crazy4Blue]

The scariest part is that Killary supporters know about all the corruption, the evidence is overwhelming, but just don't care. Very sad.

[Doc]

The scariest part is that Killary supporters know about all the corruption, the evidence is overwhelming, but just don't care. Very sad.

But they sure are quick to point out Trump's faults. As far as I know, only one candidate is responsible for the deaths of 4 Americans. As far I know, only one played a role in Russia getting weapons grade Uranium. Far as I know only one sent classified info on a private server. BUT Trump did call Rose O'Donnell a disgusting fat pig. I'd post an image of that disgusting fat pig but don't want to gross anybody out

[Darrell KSR]

I saw somebody post something that said, paraphrasing,

"After hearing you berate Candidate X and trash them, I really see the light, and I am convinced to vote for Candidate Y (your candidate) now"--Said no one, ever.

I'd be surprised not only if the Hillary Clinton supporters were unpersuaded by any attack made by the Trump campaign, but in fairness, flip the switch and you'd find the same thing for Donald Trump supporters. Oh, people will claim they would, but I've read enough on the site to see a defense of Hillary Clinton when criminal actions were outlined against her to tell me that Clinton supporters are unpersuaded, but I'm also not naive enough to think that when the Clinton supporters bring their brand of attack, it won't be the same thing from the Trump supporters. The attacks are largely diminished by each faction.

If Trump is accused of being a criminal (by Stu), we see the attack diminished as being mostly just running a business (by CBBN). I'm not saying either person is wrong. In fact, there's a lot of "good" in the ability for each person to think for themselves, to analyze for themselves, and not be affected by rhetoric.

I'm just not surprised by any of it. I expect this. This board has some very intelligent people, and if we see it here, we are a cut above the nation's populace, and for darn sure we'll see it everywhere else.

[CitizenBBN]

Just to note, and it's an aside, there's a difference between being a "criminal" and "corrupt". Do I think Trump has skirted some laws here and there in his business career? Yes, absolutely. There's no way to build a business without some of that. Heck, in this town the "open" sign I use apparently is a violation of the city sign ordnance, but I see the exact same sign up all over town and I only use it on auction day, but no doubt someone would say if I ran for office that I "broke the law".

I'd even guess that Trump has engaged in the corruption of others b/c he's built properties all over the world and you don't get those projects approved and done without greasing some palms. You just don't. So he's given to certain campaigns and put certain people on boards etc.

The point remains however that it is not "corruption", and it's the people TAKING those "contributions" that are the problem, and that's Hillary. She's the person people like Trump pay to get their stuff passed.

Is it sad that's what it takes to do things like real estate development in this and other countries? Sure it is, but I guarantee that's how the politicians do it and it's not up to the businesses. You can either play ball with them or get your permits and zoning denied. That failure is on the government system, not those who have to play the game to get through their hoops. The latter have no obligation to me and have sworn no oaths to not engage in such activity, but those in those elected offices have sworn to not do such things.

Perhaps it's a subtle difference to some, but IMO it shouldn't be. Esp. since Clinton has gone so far in so many ways. If this were some minor dust up OK, but this is widespread massive graft and corruption and negligence.

[CitizenBBN]

As for either side not being much persuaded, that's definitely true and always the case. about 1/3rd of the country on each side would vote for ANYONE nominated by "their side". Heck this election proves that much if nothing else.

The fight is always for a) turnout and b) that middle third. Personally this is one where I'll vote knowing that I face two of the historically worst choices in American history, and maybe the worst overall pair of candidates ever.