Anybody watching the Democratic convention?

[Doc]

Me neither

[CitizenBBN]

I saw a blog post that they are out of water and running out of food and such at the concessions, with a 40 minute wait.

So I applaud them for running their convention the same way they want to run health care and everything else: with long waits, shortages and rationing.

[TRUCKERCATFAN]

I've been listening to it and I must admit........that I've never heard or seen this much bullshit in one place. These democrat leaders are complete idiots.

$15 per hour minimum wage? That's all fine but how are you gonna create all these new jobs you claim when that wage would cripple many small businesses as well as discourage entrepreneurialism.

Sanders and Warren wanna say that "no American who works 40 hours should live in poverty". I agree so stop giving our tax dollars to undeserving welfare recipients!

Free college education? Who and how in the hell will pay for this? Workers at colleges must be paid from professors all the way down to custodians. I'd be interested to hear the opinions of some of the guys on here who make their living as college educators.

What say you?

[jazyd]

No

I can tell you this, raise min wage to $15 per hour and
You will pay...if you still go...?10 for a McDonald meal
I will have to raise prices 13% across the board just to pay for it...and don't forget that the small businesses like mine have to match social security on top of that increase. More than likely I would fold the ship and go to work for someone else for $15
The poor will still be poor. That is $600 a week if they can work 40 hours, $30,000! A year, sounds good eccentric the price of everything jumps big time so they are still poor.

[jazyd]

And republicans don't care about us either and we know it, I had one of my senators basically tell me to my face he didn't care, when I introduced myself at a fundraiser and praised his wife and daughter he looks me in the face and says,,,oh you are a mom and pop star and turned around and walked off.

[TRUCKERCATFAN]

And republicans don't care about us either and we know it, I had one of my senators basically tell me to my face he didn't care, when I introduced myself at a fundraiser and praised his wife and daughter he looks me in the face and says,,,oh you are a mom and pop star and turned around and walked off.

And I bet he lost your vote right then and there.

[CitizenBBN]

Of all their dumb ideas, none is more dumb than the $15/hour minimum wage. It's earth shattering how naive you have to be about economics to think that's a good idea.

I'll tell you this, either my commissions go way up or I close my doors if that comes to fruition. I know they want to sell the image of rich greedy overlords who run businesses just raking it in on the backs of the poor workers while we play golf, but that's a crock. I work twice as many hours as anyone I employ, I'm hardly raking it in after all the expenses I have (many thanks to taxes and regulation), and what I pay is about all I can afford b/c I want to retain good people nad the FREE MARKET takes care of it.

It's not just paying everyone at least $15/hour, which is crazy enough, but you can't pay the current $15/hour people that wage when they're worth more than the people now making $10 or $12 or whatever, and they go up. So you have to raise about everyone except of course me, b/c I'm the greedy white privileged dumbass who keeps working for a living instead of paying a doctor to declare me disabled so I can retire on the government dole.

Seriously, either I'd have to charge a lot more for services, at least a 15-20% hike, or I shut down. So how does it help anyone when you raise wages and then raise all the prices all those people have to pay by the same amount?

Guess what - it doesn't help them. All it will do is drive more money to capital, less to labor, resulting in net job losses, and an inflation bubble that eats up those extra wages.

It's micro economics 101, and it's pretty much beyond any reasonable mathematical dispute. It's not macro theory, this is proven tested, micro theory.

I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but it kills me how badly basic economics can be distorted. There are far better ways to raise people up out of poverty, ways that don't result in price spikes that eat up the extra money they earn. The vast vast majority of those who make minimum wage work in small businesses, and we've already about crippled that engine of the US economy (and it's big secret), and now they want to kill it altogether.

Liberalism 101: Promise everyone everything and never talk about how the bill is going to get paid, just act like there won't be one.

[Doc]

I saw a blog post that they are out of water and running out of food and such at the concessions, with a 40 minute wait.

So I applaud them for running their convention the same way they want to run health care and everything else: with long waits, shortages and rationing.

Actually if it were like Obama care, your food would be free because somebody else is paying for it.

[Doc]

I've been listening to it and I must admit........that I've never heard or seen this much bullshit in one place. These democrat leaders are complete idiots.

$15 per hour minimum wage? That's all fine but how are you gonna create all these new jobs you claim when that wage would cripple many small businesses as well as discourage entrepreneurialism.

Sanders and Warren wanna say that "no American who works 40 hours should live in poverty". I agree so stop giving our tax dollars to undeserving welfare recipients!

Free college education? Who and how in the hell will pay for this? Workers at colleges must be paid from professors all the way down to custodians. I'd be interested to hear the opinions of some of the guys on here who make their living as college educators.

What say you?

Yeah, the 15 per hour is funny. But I particularly enjoyed it when they try to explain why keeping illegal Mexicans out of the country is a bad idea and they use the excuse that the price of farm goods will skyrocket because of the loss of cheap labor. That's because paying them and every other worker a minimum of $15.00 somehow magically gets forgotten. And yes, ive had this argument multiple times

[Doc]

The other aspect of the minimum was increase is the increased cost of good will affect those at $15.00. I mean if McDonalds has to raise the cost of a big Mac to $5.00, who is that going to affect? Not me as I can afford a $5.00 big Mac. To me that's not a big deal but to the lower income end, when you have to pay 5-10% more for something, it is a big deal.

I'm all for paying a fair wage. Paying one keeps good workers. Currently the min wage here is $8.08 but I don't have a single employee who earns that. I start them at $10 and raise at 90 days. But forcing business to basically double their costs for unskilled labor is ridiculous. Sure, spouting it gets you votes so why not promise $50.00 an hour?

Reminds me of my childhood when I wondered why the government didn't print money like crazy and give it away so everybody was a millionaire. It showed a total lack of understanding economics.

[KeithKSR]

Actually if it were like Obama care, your food would be free because somebody else is paying for it.

Not really, lots of people are paying huge premiums, have outlandish deductibles, and don't go to the doctor enough to receive any of the benefits. It's like paying $20 for a hotdog and them giving it to someone else for free.

[CitizenBBN]

The other aspect of the minimum was increase is the increased cost of good will affect those at $15.00.

That's the dumb part, and goes to your thing about just printing money.

If the dollar cost of labor goes up by fiat across the board, then guess what happens to prices? When that happens then all you've done is create inflation, not a wage increase.

Higher wages come from higher dollar value added, higher productivity. Most of those jobs were never intended to be lifetime jobs but rather entry level jobs from which one worked hard and moved up. The reason that doesn't happen as much as it once did is b/c of the burden of regulation and taxes that is crushing small businesses.

For the first time in US history more businesses are closing rather than opening. That doesn't grab the headlines, but it is the single biggest economic indicator, and it tells us that the level of government intrusion is so high that we're finally paying the price in a shrinking economy. That business expansion is what leads to job expansion and demand for labor and thus higher wages. That's why wages aren't going up, b/c there's not enough growth in the economy to create demand for labor.

[suncat05]

NO! And I didn't watch the RNC either. I have better things to do than listen to a bunch of lying liars whose bloviations have the same qualities as methane gas!

[KeithKSR]

That's the dumb part, and goes to your thing about just printing money.

If the dollar cost of labor goes up by fiat across the board, then guess what happens to prices? When that happens then all you've done is create inflation, not a wage increase.

Higher wages come from higher dollar value added, higher productivity. Most of those jobs were never intended to be lifetime jobs but rather entry level jobs from which one worked hard and moved up. The reason that doesn't happen as much as it once did is b/c of the burden of regulation and taxes that is crushing small businesses.

For the first time in US history more businesses are closing rather than opening. That doesn't grab the headlines, but it is the single biggest economic indicator, and it tells us that the level of government intrusion is so high that we're finally paying the price in a shrinking economy. That business expansion is what leads to job expansion and demand for labor and thus higher wages. That's why wages aren't going up, b/c there's not enough growth in the economy to create demand for labor.

The Dems manipulate unemployment numbers and try to shout down any economic truthsayers who try to warn people about the true economic situation. Take away the fake job numbers and people will have to face how our economy is propped up and barely limping along.

[UKHistory]

And republicans don't care about us either and we know it, I had one of my senators basically tell me to my face he didn't care, when I introduced myself at a fundraiser and praised his wife and daughter he looks me in the face and says,,,oh you are a mom and pop star and turned around and walked off.

Man. That is horrible way to be treated. I see it more about the rich vs the poor. And the richest of the rich want to stay on top and the best way to stay there is destroy the middle class and make us all poor.

Liberals and conservative elites love illegal aliens. Those folks keep all the wages down. Now they are here in such great numbers it is much harder to deal with the problem.

[jazyd]

I prefer watching reruns of fixer upper or Americas got talent

[CitizenBBN]

About to be a HORDE of lies tonight, lots of gun control on the agenda.

[dan_bgblue]

https://imgflip.com/readImage?iid=51366719

[TonyRay]

I've been watching game 3 of the 76 World Series on Reds Rewind!

[jazyd]

https://imgflip.com/readImage?iid=51366719

You must have watched Waters World tonight lol

[StuBleedsBlue2]

For the first time in US history more businesses are closing rather than opening.

That's an absolute false statement. One that Rubio repeatedly said during his campaign, that is seems like you're almost regurgitating. Although, you're more incorrect than Rubio when he made his similar claims.

Now, if you had said, for the 1st time in 35 years for a 3 year period following the largest economic collapse since the Great Depression, that more businesses closed than open, then you would be correct. However, 2012 that trend reversed and 2013 was even higher. Those two years, though, has not seen the births of businesses of the rate over that 35 year period, 479,000 new businesses created, but still coming in at a two year average of 409,000. There are no numbers yet for 2014 and 2015, but with the economy improving year over year, I'm sure the numbers are back in line.

It takes a while to recover from the collapse that we endured in '08-09. The fact that we've had such growth that we have is really awesome, but it's completely lost on the right that can't admit that things are better today than they were when Obama took office. While we still have a ways to go, though, but this is just another weak attempt to paint a picture of reality that isn't so.

[CitizenBBN]

That's an absolute false statement. One that Rubio repeatedly said during his campaign, that is seems like you're almost regurgitating. Although, you're more incorrect than Rubio when he made his similar claims.

Now, if you had said, for the 1st time in 35 years for a 3 year period following the largest economic collapse since the Great Depression, that more businesses closed than open, then you would be correct. However, 2012 that trend reversed and 2013 was even higher. Those two years, though, has not seen the births of businesses of the rate over that 35 year period, 479,000 new businesses created, but still coming in at a two year average of 409,000. There are no numbers yet for 2014 and 2015, but with the economy improving year over year, I'm sure the numbers are back in line.

It takes a while to recover from the collapse that we endured in '08-09. The fact that we've had such growth that we have is really awesome, but it's completely lost on the right that can't admit that things are better today than they were when Obama took office. While we still have a ways to go, though, but this is just another weak attempt to paint a picture of reality that isn't so.

Look, I'm out here, on the real front lines. This "recovery" is a joke, the most anemic in recorded history, and it is NOT happening with the traditional way that the US does things, by spurring small business growth.

Only children and fools can't tell the difference between "better" and "not as good as it should be", well that and certain sports ADs. Most people can step back and see when things are grossly underperforming, even if they aren't yet in bankruptcy.

What you don't mention is that there wasn't some sudden shift in 2008 that explains this all away, as you clearly infer. No, in fact it's a long term trend from the 1970s till now, reversing in 2008 but critically NOT reversing even through 2011.

Now let's talk about "worst since the Depression". As far as small business growth goes there's a simple answer: Horseshit.

I was in a small business when Reagan took over, and I remember what 21% interest rates did to business investment. I was also in small business in 2008, and while there was a sharp spike when the markets blew up (thanks to government tinkering in real estate, and I know more about that than almost anything on Earth), it was far shorter than the years long process of getting out of stagflation, which btw was thought by most liberal economists at the time as being an impossibility.

So in the early 80s, with 21% interest and inflation there were STILL More businesses opening and fewer closing than we have now, right now, today when money for investment is so cheap it's almost free.

So how is it that capital is so much more available, usually the key to new business startups, yet startups are so far behind where we were during the worst capital crunch since maybe ever? Well the only other explanations are that a) there are better options than opening a new business (and that's true sorta thanks to government welfare), and b) there are other costs associated with opening and expanding that makes the bar too high even with cheap money.

Now what's interesting is that the pace of business closures started THREE YEARS before the 2008 crash, so that's not the only factor here. In fact it was pretty precipitous, so what is going on? Well you know, that's when Bush II and the GOP decided to do their best Democrat impression and start spending and taxing, increasing payroll tax costs among other things. Coincidence?

Since 1980 the average age of firms keeps going up, which means that there are fewer and fewer new young companies, fewer startups. It's a long term trend, not caused just by Obama (though his recovery is horridly weak), but caused by the long term trend of government imposing more and more on small businesses to the point they simply give up or dont' start up.

There's no fooling me on this with broad talk and massaged statistics from the Department of Labor. I'm in it, I've lived it since the day I was born, and I know what is going on b/c I'm the one spending my nights and weekends filling out forms and paying accountants and putting up with nearly endless crap from every level of government. I also can do math, which means I can add up all the hidden taxes on me and my employees, and see how they keep creeping up.

Here's a good breakdown of the situation, but watch out it's from that well known right wing regurgitating site, the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-small-business/wp/2015/02/12/the-decline-of-american-entrepreneurship-in-five-charts/



FwiW, there is another factor, and interestingly Bernie hit on the problem, just not the solution: college debt. Most new business startups come from 20 somethings and 30 somethings, but if they start out with loads of debt they can't start businesses as easy. The article touches on this point, and that is part of the issue. Of course the leftist solution is to just tax graduates more to pay for undergraduates, when the answer is to simply break up this near oligopoly of the college system.

The other factor, other than government regulation and college costs, is that these young kids are largely just lazy and spoiled, and don't want to work the hours it takes to start a business and be an entrepreneur. They also don't have a lot of guts to take chances, but mostly lazy.

So to sum up: even in the doldrums of the 80s with sky high capital costs and a host of other problems, new business startups vastly outpaced closures, and new businesses were hiring all during that time. But since 2005 it's gone south fast, with a big shove in 2008, but it has never recovered from either 2008 or the 2005 drop. We're no where NEAR where we should be historically in this country, and ignoring that just to say "we're better off than we were" is the most simplistic and nonsensical possible view of the situation that ignores that there is something seriously wrong in the way our national economic engine is running.

Your approach is to see the engine light on and just keep on driving b/c the car is still running OK. It's naive on a long stretch of lonely road at night and it's naive when handling the nation's economic future.

[CitizenBBN]

I think I can get some of the graphs to show here. This is probably the most important one, showing the long term decline in new business entries to the market. Notice that the exit rate is relatively constant with spikes in times of economic hardship. So it's not 2008 explaining it all away b/c we saw the closures there but also in the 80s during that troubled time.

No, the key is that we have a long term, consistent decline in people opening new businesses. It finally has gotten so bad that when we did get a closure spike the two data sets reversed, but even if they get back in the right order the gap is so fundamentally small compared to historic norms that it really doesn't make the situation better.

here's the chart, I hope:

5657

[CitizenBBN]

Here's another that pretty much eviscerates your theory that this is just due to the 2008 market crash.

It shows that the Millennials started really dropping off in new business creation in 2010 and 2011, years later, and in fact it looks like all the age ranges pivoted some at that time.

Now what could have happened around 2010/2011 that might account for a complete shift in approach to business planning and startups by all age ranges, but have different effects? No hints yet, I'll let you guess, but the conservatives on here will get it, all with out "regurgitation".

5658

[CitizenBBN]

In the interest of fairness, here is your dataset displayed graphically:

5659

Here are the key points:

1) New startups are still lower in 2008 and significantly so than even the worst year in the 80s, but in 2012, FOUR years later they're STILL worse than when we had 21% mortgage rates and it was impossible to borrow money and we still had double digit inflation to boot. Per your own numbers even going out to 2014 it's STILL worse than when we had 21% interest and steep price inflation eating up wages and savings.

So no the 80s were worse than 2008, and we're STILL worse off than them SIX years after a market adjustment that the Dow recovered from years ago.

2) It again shows that there is a long term, systemic problem with prime age people starting up new businesses. That has nothing to do with 2008 as it started earlier and has only continued.


so no we are NOT better off than we were 8 years ago. The engine light is on, we think we smell smoke, and your solution is to just keep on driving because we seem to be making good time.

There is a systemic, serious problem with our economic engine. The only long term explanation that covers the data is that 30+ years of expanding government bureaucracy has created high costs for starting a new business combined with strong economic incentives to not give off your ass and work hard, and we're finally reaping the results and it's only going to get worse.

"You didn't build that" is Obama's belief, he said so. He doesn't believe in entrepreneurship, to him it's just some kind of way to exploit people without having to file even MORE paperwork and maybe thwart a union. He's a nightmare, but only the latest nail in a long war on the free market and individualism.

[CitizenBBN]

One last post on this, just to get ahead of the next objection, the myth that 2008 was some nightmare "worst since the Great Depression". Man, that's funny.

let's look at real GDP as an indication of how bad an economy is doing overall. That's a decent overall measure.

http://www.econedlink.org/lessons/images_lessons/808_em808_figure21.jpg

Oh look. by that measure, 2008 wasn't even in the bottom 5.

But there are other measures (nothing is easier to manipulate than these numbers). here's one that shows growth rate, where 2008 is roughly the same as the big spike in the 80s, but again the 80s had two major such spikes showing that the length of the issue then was much longer:

5660


2008 was bad, but it wasn't 1980s bad, esp. for small businesses, but regardless the overall point stands, b/c the data is incontrovertible that small business startups are anemic compared to even bad economic times 30 years ago. Those years look positively healthy even when compared to something 5-6 years after a downturn.

[KeithKSR]

Let's not forget that the 2008 collapse was caused in large part by the Clinton housing push.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Here's another that pretty much eviscerates your theory that this is just due to the 2008 market crash.

It shows that the Millennials started really dropping off in new business creation in 2010 and 2011, years later, and in fact it looks like all the age ranges pivoted some at that time.

Now what could have happened around 2010/2011 that might account for a complete shift in approach to business planning and startups by all age ranges, but have different effects? No hints yet, I'll let you guess, but the conservatives on here will get it, all with out "regurgitation".

5658

When did I say that?

I just said that your statement was wrong, and it is.

It's been used and used by Republicans to lay blame on Obama for a struggling economy, and my point is that the economy is much better today than it was 8 years ago, but it's not at all where it needs to be, but the fact that it turned the corner after such a disastrous effect is pretty awesome.

I've been in it too, having been one of those that had to close the door on a small business(well, my wife's).

If you have a job, we're all out there on the front lines. From my perspective, the economy is moving along very well. Is it for all? Of course not, but that just means there is more work to do.

[KeithKSR]

When did I say that?

I just said that your statement was wrong, and it is.

It's been used and used by Republicans to lay blame on Obama for a struggling economy, and my point is that the economy is much better today than it was 8 years ago, but it's not at all where it needs to be, but the fact that it turned the corner after such a disastrous effect is pretty awesome.

I've been in it too, having been one of those that had to close the door on a small business(well, my wife's).

If you have a job, we're all out there on the front lines. From my perspective, the economy is moving along very well. Is it for all? Of course not, but that just means there is more work to do.

Weakest recovery in modern times. The Obama administration did more to stifle growth than to enhance growth. He is a failed president in the mode of Jimmy Carter.

[MickintheHam]

Citizen, excellent thought provoking data. However, you have overlooked one basic fact. You can't argue with facts against a radical progressive, liberal mind that can easily overlook lies, deceit and unethical behavior to perpetuate a flawed model.

[Doc]

Speaking of regurgitating--greatest economic downturn since the great depression! LOL, I was alive in the 70's when Jimmy Carter was president. Don't forget that because Carter got ousted and Reagan turned the economy around quickly. They then set the boundaries of economic downturn to exclude his disastrous financial episode.

As for current times, please don't tell me how rosy it is. I got two college graduates living in.my house for the past 2 plus years unable to find decent full time work, and it's not for lack of trying. Without me they would be on the street collecting welfare but because they work 20 hrs bagging groceries at $10 an hour they are "employed" thanks to Obama. The psychology and criminal.justice degrees ain't doing them ****.

[Catonahottinroof]

Pretty big leap you are making there. Having a job, and owning your own business, employing yourself and others is not in any way shape or form the same thing.



If you have a job, we're all out there on the front lines. From my perspective, the economy is moving along very well. Is it for all? Of course not, but that just means there is more work to do.

[badrose]

There's about 100,000,000 people unemployed in this country and the middle class is shrinking with income and wages unable to keep up with the cost of living. Printing more money only makes it worse.

[KeithKSR]

Speaking of regurgitating--greatest economic downturn since the great depression! LOL, I was alive in the 70's when Jimmy Carter was president. Don't forget that because Carter got ousted and Reagan turned the economy around quickly. They then set the boundaries of economic downturn to exclude his disastrous financial episode.

As for current times, please don't tell me how rosy it is. I got two college graduates living in.my house for the past 2 plus years unable to find decent full time work, and it's not for lack of trying. Without me they would be on the street collecting welfare but because they work 20 hrs bagging groceries at $10 an hour they are "employed" thanks to Obama. The psychology and criminal.justice degrees ain't doing them ****.

I know of lots of college grads in the same situation. They work at low wage jobs, part time jobs, etc. and some do not have the parental financial security blanket to fall back on. This administration views their part time employment at McDonalds or Walmart as an economic success story.

[KeithKSR]

There's about 100,000,000 people unemployed in this country and the middle class is shrinking with income and wages unable to keep up with the cost of living. Printing more money only makes it worse.

I hear that. My wages haven't budged much in the last 8 years, what I can purchase with my pay continues to dwindle.

The policies of this administration have continued to hit the middle class and push them down the economic ladder.

[jazyd]

My Wife and I own a small retail store

Since 2008 our pay has been reduced by 12% in order to meet payroll and overhead along with keeping inventories high enough to have what customers want. Our overhead didn't suddenly go down, in fact it went up especially frt charges. A ground shipment on average used to cost us 2.1% and now it's 5.4%. Our % we pay on credit card payments are thru the roof as everyone now puts everything on a card, when we started 23 yrs ago it was about a third on cash, card, checks. Now if we get two checks a week it is surprising and 84% of our business is on a card. The fees, and we are lucky to have a somewhat low fee compared to many retailers our size, cost us in excess of $14,000 a year. Right off the top.

To keep things going we paid ourselves less, don't eat out much, very few movies, don't over spend on clothes, watch for sales at Kroger or Walmart. We also have not been able to save much at all and nothing toward retirement.

I can tell everyone what our sales reps and vendors are telling us. All of them are offering "deals" right now before our big season, BTS, that I have not seen in years. And I can negotiate a better deal than offered. Reps are not happy as their commissions are down, customers are telling them business is bad. And our type is "supposed" to be one of the last hit since it deals with children

[MickintheHam]

Jazy, orders in our company are off 25% this year alone. Our customers say they are not investing in their businesses as they have had significant decrease in demand.

[CitizenBBN]

Pretty big leap you are making there. Having a job, and owning your own business, employing yourself and others is not in any way shape or form the same thing.

I'm not trying to be condescending, but it's daylight and dark.

When I was younger I worked in the family business, and boy I knew how everything should be done and how easy it must be to be in charge and deal with everything all day. My mother would tell me "just wait till it's your business, see how easy and clear it all is", and man was she right.

I love my staff, but they have no idea about the red tape I've gone through with zoning just to get my sign up, or the $10,000 the city wants for just the STUDY to even be able to submit a request for changes in my parking lot.

Now, you don't have to own the company to be exposed to those things so lots and lots of people out there in the business world know the realities, esp. small business people who typically have to deal with a broader range of issues and wear more hats, but no there are TONS of people who have jobs and get paychecks who have no clue the problems faced by a business and how government is really hurting them.

Heck, I had one employee happy that we do things right in our payroll and pay all the taxes b/c their last employer paid people under the table and she felt like that was somehow cheating her. She had no clue that she was avoiding a massive tax on her salary and that her employer could pay her more than someone like me and still come out ahead. I cant' do that, I have too many people and it's too big a company and I don't like the idea of jail, but she had no understanding of how payroll taxes are NOT helping her.

[dan_bgblue]

The economy has not really improved since the housing debacle in the financial markets for the average American making between 40 and 150 K contrary to all the BS, sunshine up the wazoo crap we read and hear coming out of Washington. I also agree that the life of the independent small business person is suffering, actually suffering more than someone like me that works for a paycheck from a large company.

[CitizenBBN]

Speaking of regurgitating--greatest economic downturn since the great depression! LOL, I was alive in the 70's when Jimmy Carter was president. Don't forget that because Carter got ousted and Reagan turned the economy around quickly. They then set the boundaries of economic downturn to exclude his disastrous financial episode.

As for current times, please don't tell me how rosy it is. I got two college graduates living in.my house for the past 2 plus years unable to find decent full time work, and it's not for lack of trying. Without me they would be on the street collecting welfare but because they work 20 hrs bagging groceries at $10 an hour they are "employed" thanks to Obama. The psychology and criminal.justice degrees ain't doing them ****.

Just hired a guy, son of a friend of our business who we trust, it's temporary b/c he's looking for something in his field, but he's had 5 years in the Marines and has a MBA from UK and can't find a job, can't even get an interview. He's doing this to get some money coming in, but he's way overqualified for where he's starting.

[CitizenBBN]

The economy has not really improved since the housing debacle in the financial markets for the average American making between 40 and 150 K contrary to all the BS, sunshine up the wazoo crap we read and hear coming out of Washington. I also agree that the life of the independent small business person is suffering, actually suffering more than someone like me that works for a paycheck from a large company.

It's hard on us all, I don't think I or any small business guy has a special corner on suffering as Leftism overtakes us, but what I see over that 30 years as shown by the charts is the ever increasing burden of just pure crap. A lot of it individually is no big deal, but taken together you can basically spend whole days doing nothing that earns you any money. The only thing I claim to have is the perspective of having been in small business, in management, since Reagan, which gives me a benchmark of how things work now versus how they did then, and why even in the worst part of the 80s there were still SO MANY more new businesses opening versus closing, and now that has completely changed.

That's not all of what's going on, but it is a big part of it. You cant' just hang up your shingle and start doing work.

One HUGE part of it is the payroll tax and record stuff, which discourages expansion. Once you jump into hiring people you have all this crap to deal with from payroll filings to worker's comp insurance and a host of other things.

We of course hire our payroll out to a company, b/c it would take someone days to dot that stuff individually, but there's another effective tax, just paid to that company, but it's still an economic sump.

George Gilder focused on that some, and it's a great point. A very large percentage of Americans who do work are doing work that is only done b/c of government regulations and taxation. They do necessary and good work (my wife is one of them), but in the end that work doesn't grow the economic pie, it just helps address how the pie is divided. IN effect all the billions we spend on government regulation and tax compliance is a tax, a drag on the economy.

[CitizenBBN]

BTW, I have some policies to help address all this, and I have to say it's sad how frankly I think a random throw at a dartboard would come up with better than what either Trump or Hillary have offered.

For Trump it's just that he wont' address it and stick to message. I think he'd for sure be anti-government regulation, it's just that he needs to SELL a Reagan vision of America with less government and more freedom combined with peace through strength, and he just can't get that message and stay on it. I think he'd help small business when faced with the decisions, but he's not pushing it as a feature of making him President.

Hillary's approach is classic Leftist and classic Hillary: government allocating billions of tax dollars to then be doled out by federal bureaucrats to "help small business". I can't even take the time to explain on how many levels that's an idea dumber than drilling a hole in a boat to let the water out. So she's talked about the problem, and her answer is of course to make the problem even worse with government "help".

She can't even envision a world where Americans are left alone to sort things out on their own once in a while without some government overseer telling them what is best for them as dictated by a bunch of Leftist ivory tower thinkers and elites.

[Doc]

Just hired a guy, son of a friend of our business who we trust, it's temporary b/c he's looking for something in his field, but he's had 5 years in the Marines and has a MBA from UK and can't find a job, can't even get an interview. He's doing this to get some money coming in, but he's way overqualified for where he's starting.

And the Obama considers that a success because he got a job

[PedroDaGr8]

It's hard on us all, I don't think I or any small business guy has a special corner on suffering as Leftism overtakes us, but what I see over that 30 years as shown by the charts is the ever increasing burden of just pure crap. A lot of it individually is no big deal, but taken together you can basically spend whole days doing nothing that earns you any money. The only thing I claim to have is the perspective of having been in small business, in management, since Reagan, which gives me a benchmark of how things work now versus how they did then, and why even in the worst part of the 80s there were still SO MANY more new businesses opening versus closing, and now that has completely changed.

That's not all of what's going on, but it is a big part of it. You cant' just hang up your shingle and start doing work.

One HUGE part of it is the payroll tax and record stuff, which discourages expansion. Once you jump into hiring people you have all this crap to deal with from payroll filings to worker's comp insurance and a host of other things.

We of course hire our payroll out to a company, b/c it would take someone days to dot that stuff individually, but there's another effective tax, just paid to that company, but it's still an economic sump.

George Gilder focused on that some, and it's a great point. A very large percentage of Americans who do work are doing work that is only done b/c of government regulations and taxation. They do necessary and good work (my wife is one of them), but in the end that work doesn't grow the economic pie, it just helps address how the pie is divided. IN effect all the billions we spend on government regulation and tax compliance is a tax, a drag on the economy.

One thing I have noticed in the Southeast is the complete lack and absence of ANY sense of entrepreneurialism. One would think, that in the conservative southeastern USA, which is about as business friendly as it gets in the USA, there would be loads of small businesses starting up. It is by far the most favorable environment for it. It really doesn't seem to be the case though, huge commercial districts are just abandoned and many others have maybe one or two tenants. Meanwhile, in California, about as leftist as it can get, entrepreneurialism is through the roof. Not just in the tech sector or science sector but across the board. It is about as business unfavorable as many states can be, but it is hard to find commercial areas that are even 1/4 empty, let alone have only one or two tenants.

Truthfully, I can't figure out exactly why this is. Part of it is population, for sure but that doesn't even explain half of the difference. Is it just a different culture, where people are more aggressive about going into business. Is it an educational thing? I know UCSD, for their MS in Science required their students to take a business course on developing your own start up. Is it a safety-net thing? I had a discussion with one person that said California has a better safety net. His logic was that it is much easier to take a risk when you aren't worried that your kids will starve if your screw up. I really don't know if it is none of the above, a few of the above or all the above. I just think it is an interesting thing to note.

[KeithKSR]

Pedro, how many of the California business locations are filled by some type of government related activity?

[jazyd]

When the liberals/Democrats/perverted Hollywood elites talk about Trump and Putin, they seem to forget that Obama was recorded telling Putins #2 man that as soon as Obama was re-elected it would be easier to work together. And of course all of us that toe the DNC line know that Hillary sold our plutonium production to Russia with a large speaking fee going to her husband and their 'foundation' I don't think I recall Trump doing anything like that.

Also, the hacking of the emails at the DNC started before Trump even announced and certainly before anyone thought he would win so it wasn't in an effort to help him. imo, the leaks occured because of the contempt the leakers have for the leadership of the US plus they are basically mocking the democrats.

[PedroDaGr8]

I should clarify one thing before going any further: I don't have experience much with Nor Cal, so I can't comment on there, but in SoCal there is a VERY strong entrepreneurial spirit. Now to answer your question, it depends on the area. Near the Naval and Marine bases, you will find more companies that engage in support of those bases, as you would expect. As for other types, some companies might have a percentage that is government related but not in ways that would be obvious to any of us. I truly can't say for those. Otherwise, there is a lot of diverse industry: pure commercial, R&D, small scale manfuacturing like machine shops, and even some large scale manufacturing. This spans across a decent variety of fields. Additionally, a lot of industry supporting other industries (machine shops and small engineering consulting firms designing stuff for the larger ones). One interesting facet is there is a lot of churn in companies. I heard an estimate to use biotech as an example, on average in San Diego there are 450-500 biotech firms at any one time, each year around 80-95 go out of business and around 100 new start-ups appear. The ones that failed, failed because their business was not sound. The ones that succeed might go along at a steady but slow pace, might get acquired, might acquire someone else and grow larger or might be able to navigate their research to grow dramatically larger and become a market leader. This aggressive and diverse business culture is one thing that I really miss the most about no longer being on the west coast. The idea that the company might fail but we are trying hard to make "something out of nothing". As an R&D person trying to learn more about the business side of things, it was very vibrant. Rolls in smaller companies seemed a lot more dynamic on the west coast too. I had friends that left R&D for sales, marketing, project management and manufacturing management. In my interactions with R&D people here on the east coast, most indicate that would be impossible or near to it in their company (certainly not R&D to marketing and even R&D to sales would be very hard).

This is just how I experienced things is San Diego, it might be different in other parts of the east coast but for sure in the southeast section that commercial spirit and sense, seems scared at most companies and pretty much dead in the general population.

EDIT: One more thing I will mention. San Diego tended to be more local business oriented as well. For example, there when you went to get your car repaired you to it to "Brandon's Honda and Acura Repair" not JiffyQuickFix Intl. Wal-Mart did OK there but certainly not that great, there were more Costco's than Wal-Marts. There were certainly multi-nationals and they were important but they didn't DOMINATE the way they do in the Southeast.

Getting back to my question, to this day I cant figure out WHY things were so dynamic and vibrant business-wise there when all traditional logic says the businesses there should be struggling and the environment strangled by the government there.

[dan_bgblue]

http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2016/07/29/u-s-economy-is-sucking-wind.html

[Doc]

http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2016/07/29/u-s-economy-is-sucking-wind.html

Clearly a lie. Hillary and all her henchmen have told me all is going well and that king Obama saved us from financial ruin

[jazyd]

We had been having a good year compared to last year although I knew the 2 things that are way out of the norm that caused it

But this month has been beyond terrible. We are down 13% so far against last year. My SIL who is a fleet salesman for a large ford dealer, and makes a lot of money with big customers, told me tonight this is the worst July he has had. Election year? Conventions bounce, down?

Two reps called today basically begging for orders, they didn't get them

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Pretty big leap you are making there. Having a job, and owning your own business, employing yourself and others is not in any way shape or form the same thing.

Been there, done that.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Speaking of regurgitating--greatest economic downturn since the great depression! LOL, I was alive in the 70's when Jimmy Carter was president. Don't forget that because Carter got ousted and Reagan turned the economy around quickly. They then set the boundaries of economic downturn to exclude his disastrous financial episode.

As for current times, please don't tell me how rosy it is. I got two college graduates living in.my house for the past 2 plus years unable to find decent full time work, and it's not for lack of trying. Without me they would be on the street collecting welfare but because they work 20 hrs bagging groceries at $10 an hour they are "employed" thanks to Obama. The psychology and criminal.justice degrees ain't doing them ****.

Maybe you should tell them to go where there are jobs, like a big city. Those degrees will get you a good enough living in Chicago, and I'm sure plenty of other big cities. If anybody spends 2 years looking for jobs in the same area and finding nothing, that should be a sign. What is it they call doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

I graduated college in '95 and didn't have much luck finding anything either, but I moved to Chicago, got a job at the exchange for $200/wk and busted my tail to get where I am today. I could have live in my parents house for years, but instead I felt so much better taking risks, and when I fell down here and there, I didn't feel so bad when I needed to ask for a buck or two along the way.

Recoveries from what we saw in 2008 take a long time, even in big cities. I was a derivatives trader and got laid off a year after the crash, with no desire to go back to the industry(weren't any jobs anyway), and was out of work for 16 months and had to rebuild myself from the bottom in a new industry. I went from making around good 6 figs per year to making $25k/yr at 39 years old. I worked my way back and am making a very good living again now. It's WAY harder to do at that age, then right out of school.

There are plenty of available jobs in this country, but they're not just around the corner. Yet. You have to take some risks. There's no such thing as a free lunch in life. Well, unless you just decide to live in your parents basement and wait for something to come to you.

[Doc]

Well I'd consider voting for Hillary doing the same thing and expecting a different result

Last thing I'd do if I were looking for a job as a police officer is go to Chicago.

As for the rest, while I appreciate the job advice, rest assured my kids have better examples than what you provided. I also find it borderline hysterical that a liberal would offer me the advice "that there is no free lunch". Democrats built their party on the "free lunch" and continue to dole out entitlement like candy from a Pez dispenser.

Of course I'm much more receptive of providing for MY grown kids than I am with providing for a multitude of people I don't know or had nothing to do with their creation. Unfortunately I currently find myself providing for both groups

[Doc]

Also wanted to note the unemployment is UP in Chicago.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-chicago-area-unemployment-0422-biz-20160421-story.html

[Catonahottinroof]

And yet "been there, done that" doesn't make your assertion true.


Been there, done that.

[suncat05]

I hear that. My wages haven't budged much in the last 8 years, what I can purchase with my pay continues to dwindle.

The policies of this administration have continued to hit the middle class and push them down the economic ladder.

I am in the very same boat myself. My bills keep going up, but my paycheck hasn't seen an increase since 2008. We are, and have been struggling since just before Obama became President. And we can thank a Democrat controlled Congress and "W" for that too, along with puppet entities like Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae that created the illusion of home ownership for everybody that wasn't true.
I am not a Trump fan by any means, but a vote for that old hag will just be a vote for another 4 years of Obama and his inept stupidity, and oh, yeah, surrendering the SCOTUS to the likes of Communist loving shills like Ginsberg, Kagan, Sotomayor and Kennedy.

[badrose]

Well, here's my situation: We moved to Pinehurst because my wife had a job offer we couldn't refuse and I've ended up back with the men's clothier I worked for before except it was bought out by the company of the "I'll guarantee it" fame. Turns out they paid too much so what did they do/are doing? They've cut out radio and TV advertising but only for us, not them, even though it's all under the same umbrella.

My store (soon to be the manager again, read: headache) is in a terrible location so it's primarily a destination store with very little spontaneous walk-in traffic. Most customers are retired and from the north and seem to think the rest of the world exists to kiss their collective you-know-what. Their closets are full due to the buy one, get 3 free fiasco. (Buy 1 get 2 worked just fine. I suspect that was an effort to drive up the stock price which the current owners bought into and now regret) The store is performing better than some others in the region and my staff is reduced to 4 including me, not including the tailor. We need a better spot but for now it's my job to get the numbers back up and with a small, inexperienced staff.

[Doc]

Well, here's my situation: We moved to Pinehurst because my wife had a job offer we couldn't refuse and I've ended up back with the men's clothier I worked for before except it was bought out by the company of the "I'll guarantee it" fame. Turns out they paid too much so what did they do/are doing? They've cut out radio and TV advertising but only for us, not them, even though it's all under the same umbrella.

My store (soon to be the manager again, read: headache) is in a terrible location so it's primarily a destination store with very little spontaneous walk-in traffic. Most customers are retired and from the north and seem to think the rest of the world exists to kiss their collective you-know-what. Their closets are full due to the buy one, get 3 free fiasco. (Buy 1 get 2 worked just fine. I suspect that was an effort to drive up the stock price which the current owners bought into and now regret) The store is performing better than some others in the region and my staff is reduced to 4 including me, not including the tailor. We need a better spot but for now it's my job to get the numbers back up and with a small, inexperienced staff.

You should have moved to a big city. I hear there are plenty of jobs there. Or be a policeman because there are always openings popping up. I hear Dallas is hiring 6, and is at least one in San Diego

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Also wanted to note the unemployment is UP in Chicago.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-chicago-area-unemployment-0422-biz-20160421-story.html

I don't think you actually read the article, by the way is already nearly 4 months old.

Don't want to tell your kids to move to Chicago? That's OK, I never said it was the best option, but definitely a really good one. Try any of these cities (http://www.bls.gov/web/metro/laulrgma.htm) where there are plenty of jobs, or these cities (https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/studies/best-cities-for-recent-grads-2016/) that are good for recent grads. One thing about the 2nd article that stuck out,

"But location can play a huge role when these new graduates are ready to launch their careers. In some cases, they’ve got to be willing to move to a place where they have the best chance of snagging their dream job."

I know one location that it's very difficult to find a job, a parent's house.

Here's a fact in today's job market. There are more jobs available than those qualified or willing to fill them. The solution to real and sustainable job growth is getting people motivated and trained to fill those jobs. I've seen absolutely nothing in the Republican platform, or anything from the Republican controlled Congress to do anything to fix this gap. Trump has absolutely no idea how to solve this problem either, as evidenced by economists predicting that a Trump Presidency will actually kill jobs (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/25/donald-trumps-trade-war-could-kill-millions-of-u-s-jobs/), while Clinton's will add millions. The Democrat platform up and down is filled with plans to not only solve the gap, but create real jobs that solve real problems.

[CitizenBBN]

Here's a fact in today's job market. There are more jobs available than those qualified or willing to fill them. The solution to real and sustainable job growth is getting people motivated and trained to fill those jobs. I've seen absolutely nothing in the Republican platform, or anything from the Republican controlled Congress to do anything to fix this gap. Trump has absolutely no idea how to solve this problem either, as evidenced by economists predicting that a Trump Presidency will actually kill jobs (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/25/donald-trumps-trade-war-could-kill-millions-of-u-s-jobs/), while Clinton's will add millions. The Democrat platform up and down is filled with plans to not only solve the gap, but create real jobs that solve real problems.

Let me guess. Every one of those plans involves government planning and throwing money at the problem? Yeah, that works so well.

The way to create jobs and get people in them is to get the HELL OUT OF THE WAY. I've seen the DNC proposals, and plans to spend billions and billions to set up more subsidies and control more decisions while taking the money from the people still working is not a plan for success.

The way to create jobs and get people educated is to move in the exact opposite direction you support. Decentralize education and allow competition, and then start doing the same for the business world.

But that won't happen, which is why Wall Street is pouring tens of millions into Clinton's campaign on top of the tens of millions they put in her personal pocket. It's to make sure the government stays very very involved in the markets, b/c that's good for those established companies and investors, and keeps the economy from adapting and changing and maybe letting someone else take their place.

This is the most mobile nation on Earth and we're more mobile than ever, and with technology people can telecommute more than ever as well. That's not the problem.

[KeithKSR]

It's tough to get people interested in filling jobs when the Dems have spent 50 years paying people to not work. Between housing subsidies, welfare payments, food stamps and other entitlements people would have to earn a hefty salary to make up the difference.

[Doc]

Why do you believe I didn't read the article? It reports the unemployment rate is up and that is due to more folks entering the workforce. It's a result of the slowest recovery since the great depression