Military Coup in Turkey?

[dan_bgblue]

International new reports give conflicting information but something is going on

BBC report (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36809083)

[dan_bgblue]

https://www.rt.com/news/351343-turkey-coup-military-attempt/

[PedroDaGr8]

https://www.reddit.com/live/x9gf3donjlkq

Reddit has a great live stream on this. Appears to be a possibly successful coup. Not 100% but military clearly winning right now. This happens about every decade in Turkey, it is their check on the government taking too authoritarian or Islamist.


EDIT: The most developing thing is, if true: Senior US military source tells NBC News that Erdogan, refused landing rights in Istanbul, is reported to be seeking asylum in Germany.

[KeithKSR]

The coup appears to be succeeding.

[CitizenBBN]

The coup appears to be succeeding.

Probably not bad news. It'll tear up Obama b/c he and Erdogan are tight, but he was steering Turkey down an increasingly fundamentalist path complete with delusions of grandeur.

Obama already making a mistake by calling for support of the Erdogan government. At this point you don't want to get opposite the winning side, so you make no statement at all other than maybe something about status of the situation there only.

[dan_bgblue]

At this point you don't want to get opposite the winning side, so you make no statement at all

He is far from smart enough to do that

[CitizenBBN]

He is far from smart enough to do that

And just flat doesn't care how it positions the US internationally.

[CitizenBBN]

And just to add, and be brutally clear, Erdogan has been supporting the Muslim Brotherhood and there are reports he's even been sympathetic to ISIS, and here we have our President once again, as in Egypt, voicing support for fairly radical and certainly Islamic Fundamentalist regimes that have been overthrown by a Military that is PRO WESTERN and dragging their nations back into the Western fold.

In short, our President has been and continues to support our enemies and criticize our friends. He and Hillary helped engineer the Arab Spring which ended up being nothing more than a power vacuum in which radical Islam could step.

His foreign policy in the Middle East has been an utter failure, and Hillary is directly tied to a lot of it, esp. Libya.

he should be privately cheering the coup and publicly saying nothing. It's harder every day to believe he isn't deeply sympathetic to the Islamist cause. Maybe not supportive of the violent mechanisms of it, but of the principles of it.

[PedroDaGr8]

The coup appears to have failed, huge shift in momentum in the past hour or so.

[KeithKSR]

And just to add, and be brutally clear, Erdogan has been supporting the Muslim Brotherhood and there are reports he's even been sympathetic to ISIS, and here we have our President once again, as in Egypt, voicing support for fairly radical and certainly Islamic Fundamentalist regimes that have been overthrown by a Military that is PRO WESTERN and dragging their nations back into the Western fold.

In short, our President has been and continues to support our enemies and criticize our friends. He and Hillary helped engineer the Arab Spring which ended up being nothing more than a power vacuum in which radical Islam could step.

His foreign policy in the Middle East has been an utter failure, and Hillary is directly tied to a lot of it, esp. Libya.

he should be privately cheering the coup and publicly saying nothing. It's harder every day to believe he isn't deeply sympathetic to the Islamist cause. Maybe not supportive of the violent mechanisms of it, but of the principles of it.


Obama has been exceedingly fond of the Muslim Brotherhood, and other Islamic extremist factions.

[kingcat]

If the coup fails then President Obama seems to have had a better handle on the matter than we did.
Possibly even strengthening support for US policy there.

[CitizenBBN]

If the coup fails then President Obama seems to have had a better handle on the matter than we did.
Possibly even strengthening support for US policy there.

Conjecture and a gamble that makes little sense. It's not like his statement was seen by the people of Turkey so he did nothing to aid erdegan really and they were already close. But if he's out you start off wrong w the military.

Research what erdegan is doing there and you'll see why we really have no influence and how it gains us nothing. He's taking the country towards fundamentalism while Obama seems quietly supportive of the move.

This is a long policy of his to make nice to those who oppose us. If he hasn't noticed it's not working. How can be be upset they are harboring the Muslim brotherhood when we're sending the gitmo prisoners home to rejoin the fight against us?

At least Carter bribed Egypt into peace. Obamas middle east policy is a shambles.

And no I don't think bushs policy was very good either obviously but it doesn't change that Obamas anti real politik view is completely wrong. Bush ones mistake was not installing a government that could maintain order and his dreams of democracy there are as far fetched as Obamas dream that Iran will not pursue nukes.

[Catonahottinroof]

Not to mention Edrogan is purchasing ISIS oil at half the price of the market, funding them in the process, with a wink from Obama.


Conjecture and a gamble that makes little sense. It's not like his statement was seen by the people of Turkey so he did nothing to aid erdegan really and they were already close. But if he's out you start off wrong w the military.

Research what erdegan is doing there and you'll see why we really have no influence and how it gains us nothing. He's taking the country towards fundamentalism while Obama seems quietly supportive of the move.

This is a long policy of his to make nice to those who oppose us. If he hasn't noticed it's not working. How can be be upset they are harboring the Muslim brotherhood when we're sending the gitmo prisoners home to rejoin the fight against us?

At least Carter bribed Egypt into peace. Obamas middle east policy is a shambles.

And no I don't think bushs policy was very good either obviously but it doesn't change that Obamas anti real politik view is completely wrong. Bush ones mistake was not installing a government that could maintain order and his dreams of democracy there are as far fetched as Obamas dream that Iran will not pursue nukes.

[Doc]

The US had little choice but to support the existing regime. They were elected by the people and we certified the election as valid. As a leader in democracy we don't have much choice but to support regimes that are instilled using the vote of the people. Seldom is this country going to support a military coup over an elected leader, nor should we.

That said, Edrogan is not the worse leader over there but certainly has Turkey headed towards becoming another pain in the ass nation. No doubt the recent violence in France and Turkey itself spurred this takeover attempt because the secular portion of the military sees him as a leader with fundamentalist leanings.

Until the USA wakes up and takes the lead, this type of stuff will continue. What NEEDS to happen is we need to throw our FULL SUPPORT to those in the region who are fighting the fundamentalists. Until that happens we will continue to see radical groups that foster violence like we see in France, here in the USA, England, etc....

[dan_bgblue]

Well, that was an ill conceived, poorly planned cluster.

[CitizenBBN]

The US had little choice but to support the existing regime. They were elected by the people and we certified the election as valid. As a leader in democracy we don't have much choice but to support regimes that are instilled using the vote of the people. Seldom is this country going to support a military coup over an elected leader, nor should we.

Even if true (and we've often supported coups and even created a few dozen of them), the option at the time isn't to support one side or the other but to just say nothing other than maybe some comment on the state of the situation. something like "we are monitoring the situation closely and the President is being briefed as the situation develops."

That's sufficient and keeps your options open. Coming out for the PM doesn't get us anything and doesn't help him at that point.

Obama has a weird mix of disdain for an American foreign policy of "imperialism" he sees as the root of much of the world's evil and an uncontrollable desire to meddle in the affairs of other nations. His involvement in Brexit, meddling in the Israeli election, etc.

It's not that he does one or the other really, it's the duplicity of the approach.

He commented last week, in a wholly inappropriate way at a funeral re gun control, that his words had failed. Well yes, they have, as they always do when not backed up with anything real. I think he thinks words are a viable foreign policy esp. in dealing with our enemies.

He simply has no sense of tactical decisions for foreign policy. This was a minor gaff, no big deal even had the coup succeeded, but it underscores how he leads with his ideals and not strategically.

[CitizenBBN]

A good article on how "democratic" things are in Turkey. It's not quite as bad as claiming Putin is democratically elected, but it's getting very close.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/07/16/turkeys-last-hope-dies.html

The military coup was an attempt to stop the Islamization of the country and defend secularism. the CIA should have been helping it succeed, and instead we're going to be very sorry it failed.

He's a megalomaniac building castles and envisioning himself as reestablishing the Ottoman Empire under the flag of Islam. He's been overturning Turkish secularism for years and now it will only accelerate.

I'm expecting very bad things in that region in the years to come. Not that they aren't always bad there, but a secular Turkey has long been a bulwark against it. Now they will be part of the problem.

and our leaders are applauding. I think this administration must work from Foreign Policy for Dummies.

[Catonahottinroof]

Some reports within Turkey report the coup was staged in order for Erdogan to solidify his power and suppress his rivals.

[dan_bgblue]

Some reports within Turkey report the coup was staged in order for Erdogan to solidify his power and suppress his rivals.

Credible idea imo

[CitizenBBN]

Some reports within Turkey report the coup was staged in order for Erdogan to solidify his power and suppress his rivals.

Wouldn't shock me a bit.

Regardless he'll use this to trash "democracy". Easy to keep getting elected when you go around arresting or kidnapping anyone who opposes you. He's about as democratically elected as putin or Kim Il Sung.

he's purged something like 2,500 judges and prosecutors.

Now they'll use this to try to get Gulen out of the US. He's the last major moderate religious voice for Turkey. We won't hand him over but Turkey will now be more anti-American in their rhetoric.

Don't be surprised if we don't see a pivot there where they embrace Russia more. Obama has played this all about as wrong as he can, allowing a broken nation and former enemy to become an influence again and reignite the cold war.

Oh, and that policy on Russia comes right from Hillary. Yeah she has experience, all of it bad.

[dan_bgblue]

The purge of influential secular Turks is underway (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/19/turkeys-education-ministry-reportedly-fires-15200-for-ties-to-failed-coup.html)

[KeithKSR]

Oh, and that policy on Russia comes right from Hillary. Yeah she has experience, all of it bad.

Maybe she can give them another reset button.

[CitizenBBN]

The purge of influential secular Turks is underway (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/19/turkeys-education-ministry-reportedly-fires-15200-for-ties-to-failed-coup.html)

I don't know what's funnier, that NATO is about to have a radical Islamic terrorist supporting member or that anyone in Turkey believes 15,200 educators were in on the coup attempt.

[dan_bgblue]

Does the US have any veto power in NATO or do they have to present their arguments just like all the other 28 member states? I do not think they have any special status other than being the 900/ well 400 pound, today, gorilla in the room. Am I right?

[dan_bgblue]

Edrogan behind the coup attempt? (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/19/turkish-coup-attempt-spawns-conspiracy-theories-bolsters-erdogans-clout.html)

[dan_bgblue]

Total of 50,000 people have been removed from their jobs (http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/20/europe/turkey-failed-coup-attempt/index.html)

All these people were part of the coup attempt? Maybe not actively, but they were supporters?

Teachers, journalists, police and judges alike have been caught in a net authorities are casting wider by the day, in what is increasingly looking like a witch-hunt to suppress dissent.

[UKHistory]

It is a little out there but some think that the Turkish president might have worked to get this coup staged so he could squash it and then use this as a reason to extend his power and punish "loyal opposition".

[CitizenBBN]

It is a little out there but some think that the Turkish president might have worked to get this coup staged so he could squash it and then use this as a reason to extend his power and punish "loyal opposition".

The more people he arrests Imo the more likely it is that it was staged.

[PedroDaGr8]

The more people he arrests Imo the more likely it is that it was staged.

Current list from the purge:
300 Energy Ministry employees dismissed
184 Customs Ministry employees dismissed
8 top-level parliamentary executives removed
All Turks require extra documentation to travel outside country
86 Banking Regulation and Supervision Agency (BDDK) employees dismissed
51 Borsa Istanbul (national stock exchange) employees dismissed
245 Sports Ministry personnel suspended
All Turkish academics banned from traveling abroad
140 members of the Supreme Court and 48 members of the Council of State (the highest court) got arrest warrants 4 days ago, no info on releases etc.
15,200 Ministry of Education personnel fired
24 news/media outlets broadcast licenses withdrawn
492 state religious personnel (Diyanet) removed
21,000 private teachers licenses revoked
393 personnel in Ministry of Family and Social Policy dismissed
257 personnel at PM's office dismissed & ID's seized
Demand for all 1,577 University Deans resignation
30 governors of 99 fired
9000 in Interior Ministry fired
180 intelligence officials (MIT, Turkey's national intelligence agency) suspended
2,745 judges dismissed
3,000,000 civil servants banned from going on holiday
Talks of reinstating the death penalty
1,500 Finance Ministry officials suspended
103 generals/admirals detained for questioning
?? soldiers fired/imprisoned


This is in a nut-shell a classic conversion from democracy to a dictatorship. I now almost 100% believe that this coup was staged by Erdogen to tighten his grip on power. This doesn't even begin to address the dramatic cuts in womens rights that are ongoing (have you noticed how this time there are NO female protestors?). Turkey has just become the new Syria.

[dan_bgblue]

And in my opinion the news just keeps getting worse

Hydrogen bombs at Incirlik (http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/07/the_hostage_air_base__and_its_hydrogen_bombs.html)

[CitizenBBN]

Remember Obama and Kerry came out in support of this man staying in power and laughingly called him "democratically elected". How's that working out?

The coup was so poorly done and so narrow I imagine it was staged so Erdogan could seize power, and now this "democratically elected" leader of a "democracy" is rounding up every dissenting educator and bureaucrat in the country by force and without legal authority and establishing a dictatorship. His visions of a neo-Ottoman empire is all the closer.

Not that Obama had much he could do, it just sounds awfully foolish and it was foolish b/c defending him as democratically elected is about like doing that for Hilter after the Reichstag fire or, more analogous, Kristallnacht. If anything we should have fomented a coup to eventually get back to a democracy, b/c that sucker's dead now in Turkey.

[Doc]

Remember Obama and Kerry came out in support of this man staying in power and laughingly called him "democratically elected". How's that working out?

The coup was so poorly done and so narrow I imagine it was staged so Erdogan could seize power, and now this "democratically elected" leader of a "democracy" is rounding up every dissenting educator and bureaucrat in the country by force and without legal authority and establishing a dictatorship. His visions of a neo-Ottoman empire is all the closer.

Not that Obama had much he could do, it just sounds awfully foolish and it was foolish b/c defending him as democratically elected is about like doing that for Hilter after the Reichstag fire or, more analogous, Kristallnacht. If anything we should have fomented a coup to eventually get back to a democracy, b/c that sucker's dead now in Turkey.

Which is why the US had to publicly back the current government.

But for clarity, I'm not saying they/we should. IMO he is one of those radicals however unseating him could result in worse (see Libya, Syria)

[Catonahottinroof]

This is the kind of thing that brings about an assassination attempt....

[CitizenBBN]

Which is why the US had to publicly back the current government.

But for clarity, I'm not saying they/we should. IMO he is one of those radicals however unseating him could result in worse (see Libya, Syria)

They really weren't forced to make any statement either way at that point. They could have gone with "closely monitoring the situation" and left it at that.

Obama constantly shows his pink underbelly to every dictator and bully in the world, thinking that if he jsut cozies up to them enough they'll change and be nice. It hasn't worked once yet, and in fact I doubt it's worked once in human history from playgrounds to foreign diplomacy.

Have they now condemned this vast overreaction that is undermining that democracy? Of course not, that would be standing up to the guy. They seem like they won't hand over Gulen, which is good, but here's the crux of it:

when the US plays soft with these guys, they think they can get away with even more and they go even further. When Bush I told Saddam we had no defense agreement with Kuwait he read that as the green light to invade. When Obama gives support to Erdogan even after he's spend the past few years undermining his own democracy, he feels he's been greenlighted to go even farther.

Same with Russia, same with North Korea, China in the South China Sea, pretty much everywhere for 8 years running.

I'm not saying Obama is responsible, but I am saying this repeated failure to contain these expansionist dictators is in part due to his unwillingness to send the strong message that them acting out will not be tolerated and will draw a proper response.

[Doc]

They really weren't forced to make any statement either way at that point. They could have gone with "closely monitoring the situation" and left it at that.

Obama constantly shows his pink underbelly to every dictator and bully in the world, thinking that if he jsut cozies up to them enough they'll change and be nice. It hasn't worked once yet, and in fact I doubt it's worked once in human history from playgrounds to foreign diplomacy.

Have they now condemned this vast overreaction that is undermining that democracy? Of course not, that would be standing up to the guy. They seem like they won't hand over Gulen, which is good, but here's the crux of it:

when the US plays soft with these guys, they think they can get away with even more and they go even further. When Bush I told Saddam we had no defense agreement with Kuwait he read that as the green light to invade. When Obama gives support to Erdogan even after he's spend the past few years undermining his own democracy, he feels he's been greenlighted to go even farther.

Same with Russia, same with North Korea, China in the South China Sea, pretty much everywhere for 8 years running.

I'm not saying Obama is responsible, but I am saying this repeated failure to contain these expansionist dictators is in part due to his unwillingness to send the strong message that them acting out will not be tolerated and will draw a proper response.


It worked for Poland with Germany during WWII (LOL)

[PedroDaGr8]

Turkey now has suspended the European Convention on Human Rights. They are looking to re-enact the death penalty, this is basically a false flag operation in a nutshell. This has been WELL planned out from the get go and Obama was played like a fiddle.

[CitizenBBN]

Brief article summarizing my point, that Obama's lack of response only encourages further action, and that the US has long long known Erdogan has been systematically undoing democracy, not defending it.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/22/obama-administration-mum-as-turkeys-post-coup-crackdown-expands.html

Hell, Gullen is in the US b/c secular democracy is being ravaged in Turkey, it's not like we don't know what he's doing, and we've done nothing but voice support for it.

Anyone who called out Bush I for his tepid handle on Saddam needs to speak up now, b/c it's the same thing. The US MUST push back against these kinds of expansions and tyrants and the general destruction of a democracy, and yet we do nothing, not even Obama's precious words.

[CitizenBBN]

Even better article on what is going on, an excellent one in fact that dares use history, something he rightly points out Western leaders don't know and don't think is relevant:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/07/21/turkey-and-erdogan-here-comes-real-caliphate.html

He points out the same thing I did, that the coup was the Reichstag fire for him, and that the Night of Broken Glass (Kristallnacht) for the secular/intellectual element in Turkey is coming next, and IMO it's what is happening already.

This is Hitler all over again from the standpoint of how he rose to power and the megalomania behind it. Will the outcome be as horrid? that we can't say, but Turkey is slipping into dictatorship the same as Germany in the 1930s.

And our leaders are sitting by just as they did then, all but encouraging it to happen with their inaction.

[dan_bgblue]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/27/turkey-shuts-down-130-media-outlets-after-failed-military-coup.html

[dan_bgblue]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/10/04/turkish-police-raid-kurdish-tv-station-after-order-to-stop-broadcasting.html

[CitizenBBN]

In what has to be the biggest understatement in history, they are saying the new 3 month extension of the state of emergency is "arousing fears" the crackdown is to concentrate power and undermine democracy.

Really? Ya think? More than 30,000 arrested or fired or otherwise detained in response to a coup? If they had 30,000 people involved the coup would have succeeded.

It's the most obvious effort ever to simply destroy dissent within Turkey to the President. He's going to set himself up as ruler for life just like Putin and the Soviet leaders, Mao, etc. That's so obvious I feel silly typing it.

[PedroDaGr8]

In what has to be the biggest understatement in history, they are saying the new 3 month extension of the state of emergency is "arousing fears" the crackdown is to concentrate power and undermine democracy.

Really? Ya think? More than 30,000 arrested or fired or otherwise detained in response to a coup? If they had 30,000 people involved the coup would have succeeded.

It's the most obvious effort ever to simply destroy dissent within Turkey to the President. He's going to set himself up as ruler for life just like Putin and the Soviet leaders, Mao, etc. That's so obvious I feel silly typing it.

They are already "reforming" the education system. It used to be in Turkish educaiton, you took a science test and if you scored highly you became a teacher. Now, there is an interview component which is weighed VERY heavily. Not surprisingly, the interview questions are all ones that can cast you as either pro-Erdrogan/Islamist or anti-Erdrogan.

[dan_bgblue]

Another coup attempt in the wings? (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/10/another_coup_brewing_in_turkey.html)

[dan_bgblue]

Turkey's Erdogan reportedly eyes extending his rule to 2029 (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/11/17/turkeys-erdogan-reportedly-eyes-extending-his-rule-to-2029.html)

[dan_bgblue]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/16/turkey-referendum-erdogan-supporters-claim-victory-opposition-to-demand-recount.html

[CitizenBBN]

Erdogan may have stuffed the ballot box but he'll get his way in the end regardless.

[dan_bgblue]

I think so too. He has ensconced himself in the autocrat position for the foreseeable future. I think it is important for the administration to find way to work with him on the mutually beneficial issues in that part of the world. It needs to be as even a deal as possible and avoid giving away the company store as we are noted for having done in the past

[Catonahottinroof]

2.5 Million votes were likely manipulated in recent referendum

https://www.rt.com/news/385141-turkey-manipulated-votes-referendum/

[Doc]

2.5 Million votes were likely manipulated in recent referendum

https://www.rt.com/news/385141-turkey-manipulated-votes-referendum/

IMO Russia did it.

[Darrell KSR]

IMO Russia did it.
It's ok, because regular students were included as a well as the athletes.

[dan_bgblue]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/19/turkeys-erdogan-once-greeted-jubilantly-now-rejected-by-nearly-half-turks.html