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badrose
11-11-2012, 07:10 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/08/walmart-black-friday-strike-organized-online-video_n_2094698.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl18%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D232971

Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving regarded as one of the biggest shopping days of the year, may be dramatically different this year.

Organizers are planning a nationwide strike against Walmart, the largest retailer in the world, and are banking on a new strategy: online organizing.

Labor organizers are working with social action nonprofit Engage Network as well as corporate watchdog nonprofit Corporate Action Network to pull off what they are calling a "viral" -- meaning national and spreading online -- strike.

and the story goes on.

Doc
11-11-2012, 09:50 AM
So they are griping about working conditions and having to work on t-giving? Then fire them and hire new employees. Are plenty of people out of work

Darrell KSR
11-11-2012, 09:59 AM
Sorry, little sympathy there.

I have two daughters that work holidays--one with a menial, honest job, who works on Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day (among other holidays), and has for 4-1/2 years while in high school and in college, and the other with a job in the medical field, who works holidays as they are assigned. We have Thanksgiving when we gather as a family; same for Christmas or any other holiday. We respect holidays; we just understand that there's a value to good, honest work, and serving others as well.

Walmart's Black Friday begins Thanksgiving Day at 8 p.m.? Have your Thanksgiving meal at noon that day. Just a ton of solutions.

Get mad if Walmart makes you work off the clock, won't pay you overtime, makes you do something illegal. Is open on a holiday? Big deal.

suncat05
11-11-2012, 11:55 AM
I've always had to work holidays, but then you gotta have po-lice around during just those times, for those that just cannot seem to get along during an alcoholic fueled family rumble during the holiday season.
If you want to pay your bills, you have to work whenever it is required to keep the money rolling in. That's always the way it's been, and that's always the way it will be.
I'm with Doc........they don't want to work, FIRE THEM and hire somebody who will. It's that simple.
Absolutely zero sympathy from this corner of Wildcat Country on this situation.

ColonelSteve
11-11-2012, 12:07 PM
It's not about working holidays...I mean they do get paid time and a half for their time...it's about working conditions...the same reason they have been sued for over the last 10 years, forcing people to work OT without getting paid, discrimination, terrible insurance, everything we hold dear they dont see, earlier this year they protested in 10 states at like 30 some stores...they talked about doing this on Black Friday, it's why Walmart has moved their deals to start at 8PM on Thanksgiving, I applaud them for standing up against these pricks and so should everyone else

Darrell KSR
11-11-2012, 02:17 PM
Colonel, if it's the "same reason they've been sued," either a) it has been remedied through the legal system, or b) they're doing it (again) and they need to be sued, not protested against.

No sympathy. Sorry. I'm not a Wal-mart fan, because I like the service and the enterpreneurial spirit of the local merchant, but I won't join you in supporting their strike for the reasons you state.

bigsky
11-11-2012, 03:40 PM
I worked shift work for a dozen years out of high school. Not just holidays, weekends, but afternoon and graveyard shifts. I have no sympathy; I think these are whiners.

CitizenBBN
11-11-2012, 04:40 PM
Plenty of people would be happy to have those jobs. Fire their butts and get people who don't think it should be handed to them.

Same people who will complain about jobs going overseas. Gee, I wonder why that happens. :banghead:

ColonelSteve
11-11-2012, 05:04 PM
They are a billion dollar company and tell their employees to get Medicaid while paying them $7.50/hr, forcing them to work UNPAID OVERTIME...yall really think these people are just whining? If you were told to work unpaid overtime or lose your job...I guarantee you would not be "whining" you would be downright pissed and justifiably so.

Thats just like Papa John rising the price of his pizzas saying he cant afford Obamacare, yet he has a 22 car garage along with other crap in his mansion

Doc
11-11-2012, 05:44 PM
I've always had to work holidays, but then you gotta have po-lice around during just those times, for those that just cannot seem to get along during an alcoholic fueled family rumble during the holiday season.
If you want to pay your bills, you have to work whenever it is required to keep the money rolling in. That's always the way it's been, and that's always the way it will be.
I'm with Doc........they don't want to work, FIRE THEM and hire somebody who will. It's that simple.
Absolutely zero sympathy from this corner of Wildcat Country on this situation.

What, criminals don't take the holidays off?

Over the years I too have had to work holidays. The first 2 years after school I got Xmas and T-giving for sure. Likewise after that it was "on call" to handle emergencies as well as care taking care of the hospitalized animals. Guess that is what responsible people do.

Doc
11-11-2012, 05:52 PM
They are a billion dollar company and tell their employees to get Medicaid while paying them $7.50/hr, forcing them to work UNPAID OVERTIME...yall really think these people are just whining? If you were told to work unpaid overtime or lose your job...I guarantee you would not be "whining" you would be downright pissed and justifiably so.

Thats just like Papa John rising the price of his pizzas saying he cant afford Obamacare, yet he has a 22 car garage along with other crap in his mansion

They are a billion dollar company, so what.
They pay their employees $7.50 an hour (documentation?), so what. Its more than minimum wage. They don't like it then FIND ANOTHER JOB
They are not paying overtime. This I doubt because that is illegal. Its a huge no no and doing so will get a business in huge trouble.
As for medicaide, welcome to America. I thought that is what liberals wanted, the government to take care of them. Now its Walmarts job?

I got a better solution. You work at walmart and don't feel you are paid enough or get enough benefits. Quit and find a better paying job. Nobody is forcing them to work at Walmart

ColonelSteve
11-11-2012, 05:59 PM
They are a billion dollar company, so what.
They pay their employees $7.50 an hour (documentation?), so what. Its more than minimum wage. They don't like it then FIND ANOTHER JOB
They are not paying overtime. This I doubt because that is illegal. Its a huge no no and doing so will get a business in huge trouble.
As for medicaide, welcome to America. I thought that is what liberals wanted, the government to take care of them. Now its Walmarts job?

I got a better solution. You work at walmart and don't feel you are paid enough or get enough benefits. Quit and find a better paying job. Nobody is forcing them to work at Walmart

You really need to go to some of these small towns in Eastern Kentucky...Walmart is the only job in some of these towns, and if I remember correctly, only UPS and Toyota employ more people in the entire state, that's why I was for Obamacare, some of these people CANT get a better job, and they have awful insurance...and yes...they are creating illegal practices not paying their OT...and this wonderful government for some reason has overlooked it

CattyWampus
11-11-2012, 06:40 PM
You really need to go to some of these small towns in Eastern Kentucky...Walmart is the only job in some of these towns, and if I remember correctly, only UPS and Toyota employ more people in the entire state, that's why I was for Obamacare, some of these people CANT get a better job, and they have awful insurance...and yes...they are creating illegal practices not paying their OT...and this wonderful government for some reason has overlooked it

The majority of these people can't get a better job because they FAILED to get themselves educated or trained so that they would actually have some marketable skills. You seem to suggest that Walmart created the situation that you abhor. Talk to the people who work at Walmart, and you'll find that many had worse jobs before Walmart came to their town.

All of this push to unionize Walmart doesn't come from the workers, it comes from the unions who see megabucks in union dues due to the fact that Walmart is the biggest retailer in the world. It's a numbers game by the unions who don't give a damn about "doing right for the workers". Walmart actually has some good workers who are happy to have their jobs. Those aren't the "workers" pushing for unionization. Most of those Walmart "workers" who push for a union, are misnamed. They are not workers. They are clock-punchers. They wouldn't work in a pie factory.

CitizenBBN
11-11-2012, 06:45 PM
They are a billion dollar company and tell their employees to get Medicaid while paying them $7.50/hr, forcing them to work UNPAID OVERTIME...yall really think these people are just whining? If you were told to work unpaid overtime or lose your job...I guarantee you would not be "whining" you would be downright pissed and justifiably so.

What is this "overtime" of which you speak? You mean just b/c it's not 9 to 5 you get more money for the same work?

Wow, as I sit here at my desk working on a project at 7:25pm on a Sunday no I don't think I'd be pissed about getting PAID for WORK when 25% of this country is unemployed or underemployed. I'd be dancing in the streets to have a job b/c I don't expect people to hand me anything and I know this is a market and the price of everything is determined by competition and there's plenty for those jobs. Am I getting paid for that after hours and holiday time? I'm good.

Is it just me or is it ironic you posted a thread showing some of these same Walmart employees committing crimes of vandalism and destruction of property while on the job? Why should I give a rat about them having to work late?

Go tell a farmer or someone in a small business (owner or employee) or a salesman or any number of professionals how they should be pissed over not getting paid more for working late hours or weekends or more than 40 hours a week.

ColonelSteve
11-11-2012, 07:05 PM
What is this "overtime" of which you speak? You mean just b/c it's not 9 to 5 you get more money for the same work?

Wow, as I sit here at my desk working on a project at 7:25pm on a Sunday no I don't think I'd be pissed about getting PAID for WORK when 25% of this country is unemployed or underemployed. I'd be dancing in the streets to have a job b/c I don't expect people to hand me anything and I know this is a market and the price of everything is determined by competition and there's plenty for those jobs. Am I getting paid for that after hours and holiday time? I'm good.

Is it just me or is it ironic you posted a thread showing some of these same Walmart employees committing crimes of vandalism and destruction of property while on the job? Why should I give a rat about them having to work late?

Go tell a farmer or someone in a small business (owner or employee) or a salesman or any number of professionals how they should be pissed over not getting paid more for working late hours or weekends or more than 40 hours a week.

Because theyre not getting paid to work, they dont own anything within the company since Walmart does NOT offer stock options, its different if youre a farmer cause that is your food...its different if youre a small business owner cause it's YOURS, but if you are forced to work, if you refuse youre FIRED, and you dont get paid for it, that is the definition of slavery

ColonelSteve
11-11-2012, 07:07 PM
The majority of these people can't get a better job because they FAILED to get themselves educated or trained so that they would actually have some marketable skills. You seem to suggest that Walmart created the situation that you abhor. Talk to the people who work at Walmart, and you'll find that many had worse jobs before Walmart came to their town.

All of this push to unionize Walmart doesn't come from the workers, it comes from the unions who see megabucks in union dues due to the fact that Walmart is the biggest retailer in the world. It's a numbers game by the unions who don't give a damn about "doing right for the workers". Walmart actually has some good workers who are happy to have their jobs. Those aren't the "workers" pushing for unionization. Most of those Walmart "workers" who push for a union, are misnamed. They are not workers. They are clock-punchers. They wouldn't work in a pie factory.

And I understand that, and that is why I dont like McConnell, the education in this country is such a failure right now, it's not even funny. It's not these peoples fault theyre in a bad situation, at least theyre trying, they could become the stereotypical hillbilly making moonshine and meth, no theyre going to work everyday and TRYING, that should account for something, sure they could do more but some just dont have that option

Catonahottinroof
11-11-2012, 07:50 PM
As someone who has 14 days in a row due to Hurricane Sandy, I have no sympathy. You have choice, find another job, or unemployment.

Spoiled, entitled describes many in the workforce today...

CitizenBBN
11-11-2012, 08:37 PM
Because theyre not getting paid to work, they dont own anything within the company since Walmart does NOT offer stock options, its different if youre a farmer cause that is your food...its different if youre a small business owner cause it's YOURS, but if you are forced to work, if you refuse youre FIRED, and you dont get paid for it, that is the definition of slavery

As I understand it they are getting paid, just not paid overtime, i.e. money above their base salary for normal hours.

Lots of people work on farms long hours and don't own it and don't get overtime. Lots of people work in small businesses and work extra hours and don't own any of it. Construction workers, all kinds of restaurant workers, 10s of millions of workers.

You don't usually get into "overtime", paying more money for extra hours, until you get into big companies or union work or government. People who work for big companies deserving extra pay for the same work b/c it's after hours or weekends isn't very persuasive to me when so many don't get that deal.

You said we'd all be ticked off. We wouldn't, and neither would millions of other Americans out of work or millions more with jobs that work more hours than what their paid to work and millions more who don't get overtime when they work extra hours. Massive number of people out there with the same or worse deal.

CitizenBBN
11-11-2012, 08:39 PM
The definition of slavery is you refuse to work b/c you aren't paid and you are forced to at gunpoint, not that you get fired. That's the free market and the right to contract. You can either agree to the terms of the offer or not, but that's not slavery. If you get beaten or jailed for not working at Walmart, that's slavery.

Doc
11-11-2012, 10:52 PM
Because theyre not getting paid to work, they dont own anything within the company since Walmart does NOT offer stock options, its different if youre a farmer cause that is your food...its different if youre a small business owner cause it's YOURS, but if you are forced to work, if you refuse youre FIRED, and you dont get paid for it, that is the definition of slavery

So a company should offer its employees stock option? I don't offer any of my employees ownership in my business. Why should I? I hire them and I pay them. If they don't like it they leave and go work for the guy down the road. Its happened more than once. Sometimes when they threaten to leave I pay them more because they are worth the money but sometimes I don't...and they move on. Thing about owning a business is if there isn't enough money to cover their paychecks any week its me that goes without, not them. They come in on Sat or Sun and they punch the clock and get paid. Me, I should up whenever needed and don't make an extra cent for doing so. I'm not complaining about that, only that ownership of a company is about a heck of a lot more than being given something because you punch a clock.
If you are schedule to work and don't show up, then you get fired. You are fired because you failed to show up. But you're are right in that you don't get paid because you didn't work. Our definition of slavery is far different (and to be honest, yours is offensive to actual slaves). My definition means you work and don't get paid. Apparently yours is you don't work and don't get paid.

Doc
11-11-2012, 11:00 PM
As I understand it they are getting paid, just not paid overtime, i.e. money above their base salary for normal hours.

Lots of people work on farms long hours and don't own it and don't get overtime. Lots of people work in small businesses and work extra hours and don't own any of it. Construction workers, all kinds of restaurant workers, 10s of millions of workers.

You don't usually get into "overtime", paying more money for extra hours, until you get into big companies or union work or government. People who work for big companies deserving extra pay for the same work b/c it's after hours or weekends isn't very persuasive to me when so many don't get that deal.

You said we'd all be ticked off. We wouldn't, and neither would millions of other Americans out of work or millions more with jobs that work more hours than what their paid to work and millions more who don't get overtime when they work extra hours. Massive number of people out there with the same or worse deal.

Thats how I understand it as well. If an employee goes over 40 hours in a work week they are required to be paid overtime (1.5 for the first 10 hrs then 2.0 after that). However simply having to work non 9-5 hours does not require additional pay. Its not overtime until its over 40 hrs. I've had several jobs that had odd hours. Worked one as a drill press operator in a manufacturing business in Louisville that was 4:30pm to 3:00am 4 days a week (plant was running double shift). I made a few bucks extra for working that shift but it wasn't "overtime" pay. It was because the business did it as an incentive to work that shift. Likewise my first job as a vet was 6:00pm to 8:00 am Thurs-Sun. No overtime as it was a "salary job" but I did it a slight boost in my pay for working the night compared to if I filled in for the day doctor. Wasn't required but my boss did it as an incentive.

jazyd
11-11-2012, 11:53 PM
You guys are right, overtime starts when you go over 40 hours for a work week, not when you go over 8 hours for a day. Some people like working 10 hour days but only work 3 days or even 4 days so they can have more time off, many nurses do that.

And it is true, the union does not care about the employees, they only care about those dues, so they can build or buy more golf resorts and the top guys can live even better while the shmucks do all the work and watch tens of millions of their dollars go to politicians or resorts.

When you go to work in the retail business you work holidays, period. dont want to work holidays, don't work retail, or dont own your own business like I do, an doc, and citizen nor do you go to work in mgt in the government business like sky does. When I worked on the river as a deckhand in the summers, we always worked over 40 hours a week, heck there were times we worked 36 straight hours, got 8 hours sleep and back at it for 10 hours the next day. Glad to have that job, and those at Wally World need to be glad they have theirs. go watch them some day, not like they are doing extremely hard work, most do a lot of standing around.



Thats how I understand it as well. If an employee goes over 40 hours in a work week they are required to be paid overtime (1.5 for the first 10 hrs then 2.0 after that). However simply having to work non 9-5 hours does not require additional pay. Its not overtime until its over 40 hrs. I've had several jobs that had odd hours. Worked one as a drill press operator in a manufacturing business in Louisville that was 4:30pm to 3:00am 4 days a week (plant was running double shift). I made a few bucks extra for working that shift but it wasn't "overtime" pay. It was because the business did it as an incentive to work that shift. Likewise my first job as a vet was 6:00pm to 8:00 am Thurs-Sun. No overtime as it was a "salary job" but I did it a slight boost in my pay for working the night compared to if I filled in for the day doctor. Wasn't required but my boss did it as an incentive.

CitizenBBN
11-12-2012, 12:55 AM
Good point Jazy, it sure isn't ditch digging. The guys that do construction work for me have way tougher days. You haven't lived till you spend the day in a crawl space cleaning out the trash and insulation, digging holes and pouring concrete for new supports with a 16" clearance. They do that kind of work for a living. Makes even putting up with Walmart customers look good. lol.

There are good jobs and bad jobs, and in this economy a job that pays is leaning hard to the good category right from the start.

One other thought. Good luck getting Walmart goers to respect a strike, and good luck getting people to walk out on their jobs in this economy. I feel very secure planning my black friday Walmart shopping (not that I'll have any).

CattyWampus
11-12-2012, 05:44 AM
And I understand that, and that is why I dont like McConnell, the education in this country is such a failure right now, it's not even funny.


Please explain to me how that's McConnell's fault.

jazyd
11-12-2012, 07:16 AM
The colonel should have watched the guys who dug 41 holes around my foundation two weeks ago, with nothing more than shovels outside and after break thru the concrete shovels on the inside and down so deep all that showed where their shoulders and heads. Then pushed those wheelbarrels around with the concrete to pour into the holes after they had jacked up the house.They do it in 100 degree July days and 35 degree January days. Worked their tales off, hardly stopped all day other than to get something to eat or drink. NO union, no insurance, no benefits, no nothing, wait they had a job, and got paid for it and and knew they had one the next day as long as they showed up. He had 10 men on his crew, the shortest any had worked for him was 4 years and the longest was 21 years.


I love how people like steve start or spread rumors about Walmart and their products. Can you honestly imagine a billion dollar company taking the chance of selling someone a michelin tire that really isn't and it comes apart and killing someone in a car accident? Think how big that lawsuit would be, anyone who spreads stuff like this is nuts, no way a company like Walmart takes chances like that, just will not happen. They may be scum to do business with...and they are...and they may not have the best customer service in the world, but they are not stupid.




Good point Jazy, it sure isn't ditch digging. The guys that do construction work for me have way tougher days. You haven't lived till you spend the day in a crawl space cleaning out the trash and insulation, digging holes and pouring concrete for new supports with a 16" clearance. They do that kind of work for a living. Makes even putting up with Walmart customers look good. lol.

There are good jobs and bad jobs, and in this economy a job that pays is leaning hard to the good category right from the start.

One other thought. Good luck getting Walmart goers to respect a strike, and good luck getting people to walk out on their jobs in this economy. I feel very secure planning my black friday Walmart shopping (not that I'll have any).

suncat05
11-12-2012, 08:50 AM
They are a billion dollar company and tell their employees to get Medicaid while paying them $7.50/hr, forcing them to work UNPAID OVERTIME...yall really think these people are just whining? If you were told to work unpaid overtime or lose your job...I guarantee you would not be "whining" you would be downright pissed and justifiably so.

Thats just like Papa John rising the price of his pizzas saying he cant afford Obamacare, yet he has a 22 car garage along with other crap in his mansion

I guess it has just NEVER occurred to you that Mr. Papa John built his business from scratch, through hard work and good planning and from working long, long hours! So what if he has a mansion? IS HE NOT ENTITLED TO ENJOY THE FRUITS OF HIS LABORS? He earned it the old fashioned way........... HE WORKED FOR IT!! That is part of the secret formula for success, HE WORKED FOR IT ALL! Nobody gave him anything except the chance to either succeed or fall flat on his face. And now, because of people like you, the price of pizzas is going through the roof because you supported a candidate for POTUS that believes that hard work & business success should be vilified & demonized and has given us a law that will raise our taxes by thousands of dollars......... A LAW THAT MOST AMERICANS DID NOT WANT!
I see your point, and that point and that way of thinking is what has brought our country to the brink of bankruptcy and is causing us to lose our status as the leader of the free world.
Hell no Papa John can't afford Obamacare, and none of the rest of us can either! But you'll see........... when it's too damn late, like most other uninformed people will!

bubbleup
11-12-2012, 05:09 PM
I've got lots of issues with WalMart, but this isn't one of them. I don't shop there, but might stop by that day just for a change of pace.

jazyd
11-12-2012, 05:48 PM
It never occurs to liberals and ones like them, everyone who is successful must be torn down in any way possible. It is not right to be successful, to do it with hard work, and have money, we should give it all to those who refuse to work hard, who refuse to educate themselves either thru the school systems or thru self education, who refuse to take chances, who don't go thru failures only to bounce back and try again. Take from the doers and give to the ones who take everything they can. This will be the downfall of this country along with open borders for people to come in and join those who are looking to sit on their butts and collect.



I guess it has just NEVER occurred to you that Mr. Papa John built his business from scratch, through hard work and good planning and from working long, long hours! So what if he has a mansion? IS HE NOT ENTITLED TO ENJOY THE FRUITS OF HIS LABORS? He earned it the old fashioned way........... HE WORKED FOR IT!! That is part of the secret formula for success, HE WORKED FOR IT ALL! Nobody gave him anything except the chance to either succeed or fall flat on his face. And now, because of people like you, the price of pizzas is going through the roof because you supported a candidate for POTUS that believes that hard work & business success should be vilified & demonized and has given us a law that will raise our taxes by thousands of dollars......... A LAW THAT MOST AMERICANS DID NOT WANT!
I see your point, and that point and that way of thinking is what has brought our country to the brink of bankruptcy and is causing us to lose our status as the leader of the free world.
Hell no Papa John can't afford Obamacare, and none of the rest of us can either! But you'll see........... when it's too damn late, like most other uninformed people will!

Darrell KSR
11-12-2012, 06:28 PM
I've got lots of issues with WalMart, but this isn't one of them. I don't shop there, but might stop by that day just for a change of pace.

I'm firmly in this boat.

I'm not a Walmart fan, although it seems I rushed to their defense here (which I did). They're not doing anything wrong here, and to some degree, much of my issue with them also doesn't have anything to do with anything *they* are doing wrong, per se.

I just like to support the smaller, locally owned businesses, and Walmart is a major hindrance to that. I don't support the local stores enough, though, as I'm like everybody else, and run to the place with the best prices too often. So I'm more to blame than they are. But that's another thread.

Here, I have yet to see one cogent argument that Walmart is doing anything that is worthy of its employees protesting or striking.

jazyd
11-12-2012, 10:44 PM
Thanks for shopping local Darrell, we just need more of it. you may pay a tad more, but you keep a small business open and keep the Walmarts and Targets honest with their prices, eliminate us small guys and they don't have to be honest with their pricing any longer and they will raise them.



I'm firmly in this boat.

I'm not a Walmart fan, although it seems I rushed to their defense here (which I did). They're not doing anything wrong here, and to some degree, much of my issue with them also doesn't have anything to do with anything *they* are doing wrong, per se.

I just like to support the smaller, locally owned businesses, and Walmart is a major hindrance to that. I don't support the local stores enough, though, as I'm like everybody else, and run to the place with the best prices too often. So I'm more to blame than they are. But that's another thread.

Here, I have yet to see one cogent argument that Walmart is doing anything that is worthy of its employees protesting or striking.

Darrell KSR
11-12-2012, 11:18 PM
All good points, Jazy, not to mention the service you get will be 100x better as well.

CitizenBBN
11-12-2012, 11:34 PM
Thanks for shopping local Darrell, we just need more of it. you may pay a tad more, but you keep a small business open and keep the Walmarts and Targets honest with their prices, eliminate us small guys and they don't have to be honest with their pricing any longer and they will raise them.

While I support Walmart's right to do what they do, and people like to ignore how much consumer surplus they've created, I really dislike going there. It's a last resort. Beyond liking supporting the local guys, which I think is important for all of us, I just don't find it all that convenient. Ever try to find that one thing you need in a 120,000 sf store?

Like up in Cynthiana. Walmart has brought 1,000s of items to that town you just couldn't have bought there locally otherwise. You had to drive somewhere else. Nothing like the selection. At the same time it takes out all the local stores that overlap too much with them. So it's a mixed bag, good and bad. Pretty much the story of the history of the American economy. Always driving forward, always growing, but yes some good things get left on the roadside. Still, it's a better road than any other.

Jazy the monopoly risk is definitely there. If you eliminate the competition then the incentives to push prices down isn't there. It's a constant risk, and the scale of Walmart reminds me a lot of some of the trust issues of the latter 1800s.

I believe in the free market, which is not the same as believing in businesses. Any business will subvert the market any chance they get. I would. If you could magically pass a law that everyone who bought a uniform had to come to you or every other store had to pay you a fee you'd be daft to not do it. So the goal is a free market. Right now other big retailers can keep it in check so I don't think it will happen on a broad scale, but it's a risk.

I just don't like the Walmart store. The customers bother me more than the service. Too big, too many rude people, too much. I admire greatly Walton's ability to build a distribution system, but the stores annoy me.

bubbleup
11-13-2012, 05:09 AM
Years ago an Iowa State University professor did a study on Wal Mart's impact in small towns. This was before they had blanketed small towns so this effect is almost over across all states except Vermont. First thing that happens is the local hardware store goes out of business, followed by the fabric store.

The only defense is to carry "better" brands than they have access to. They try to beat that too. Years ago when I worked for Nike I discovered that they had gotten access to Nike shoes and had them in several rural stores in Kentucky. We were able to trace the shoes (thousands) to an account in Colorado. The account was closed and the sales rep fired without any future commissions, but we couldn't do anything to WalMart, which was obviously doing everything they could to circumvent Nike's decision to keep the brand out of places like WalMart. They could tiptoe along the legalality of their actions, but there was no question where itwas ethically, andI stopped shopping there at that time...1989.

jazyd
11-13-2012, 09:48 AM
When I was in the rep business we had the same thing happen to two of the mfgs we sold for. One was a upper end ski boot that was shipped to a place in Mexico and then back across the border to Colorado and the other was Nikon scopes. They were shipped to an account of mine in Baton Rouge with the understanding they were going to Walmart stores which would have been kinda ok, except Walmart then sent them to Sams which was not okay. I got chewed badly on that one.


Years ago an Iowa State University professor did a study on Wal Mart's impact in small towns. This was before they had blanketed small towns so this effect is almost over across all states except Vermont. First thing that happens is the local hardware store goes out of business, followed by the fabric store.

The only defense is to carry "better" brands than they have access to. They try to beat that too. Years ago when I worked for Nike I discovered that they had gotten access to Nike shoes and had them in several rural stores in Kentucky. We were able to trace the shoes (thousands) to an account in Colorado. The account was closed and the sales rep fired without any future commissions, but we couldn't do anything to WalMart, which was obviously doing everything they could to circumvent Nike's decision to keep the brand out of places like WalMart. They could tiptoe along the legalality of their actions, but there was no question where itwas ethically, andI stopped shopping there at that time...1989.

cattails
11-14-2012, 02:51 PM
They are a billion dollar company and tell their employees to get Medicaid while paying them $7.50/hr, forcing them to work UNPAID OVERTIME...yall really think these people are just whining? If you were told to work unpaid overtime or lose your job...I guarantee you would not be "whining" you would be downright pissed and justifiably so.

Thats just like Papa John rising the price of his pizzas saying he cant afford Obamacare, yet he has a 22 car garage along with other crap in his mansion



Not getting overtime pay is against the law, simple as that. My employees get it and so should they and there is an easy way to get what is due, simply report it. Our week starts on friday, the same day we hand out checks, anything over 40 hrs is overtime. I have a hard time believing Wal Mart is not paying overtime, there has to be more to this.

Doc
11-14-2012, 04:29 PM
Not getting overtime pay is against the law, simple as that. My employees get it and so should they and there is an easy way to get what is due, simply report it. Our week starts on friday, the same day we hand out checks, anything over 40 hrs is overtime. I have a hard time believing Wal Mart is not paying overtime, there has to be more to this.

They are bitching because they are not getting overtime pay or bonus pay for working on Thursday. Its not true "overtime" pay because legally any employer must pay OT when a worker hit 40hrs in any given work week. These Walmart employees are not working hours 41,42, 43, 44 etc. They just don't think its fair that they have to work on Thanksgiving in prep for "black friday". Instead they believe they because they are working on this particular Thurday, its overtime. See they believe they are entitled to Thanksgiving off, and by forcing them to work, Walmart has wrong them.

ColonelSteve
11-14-2012, 06:46 PM
NYT's article from 2007 saying Walmart settled out of court to pay $33.5M in back wages to unpaid overtime
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/26/business/26walmart.html?_r=0

CBS News article from 2009 where Walmart LOST a lawsuit in Oregon for unpaid overtime wages
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-533818.html

Daily Finance article from 10/29/2012 on a lawsuit coming ahead of these strikes
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/10/29/walmart-unpaid-overtime-lawsuit-strikes/

ITS NOT ABOUT WORKING ON A HOLIDAY...THIS IS A LONG STANDING ILLEGAL PRACTICE THAT HAS BEEN WIDELY REPORTED AND STILL HASNT STOPPED

CitizenBBN
11-14-2012, 10:12 PM
Looks like it's been stopped many times based on the links, and they just keep trying.

However, this story is very much about working Thursday:

"Lots and lots of Walmart workers are going to be forced to not have Thanksgiving because they're going to be preparing all day for the busiest shopping day of the year," Dan Schlademan, director of Making Change at Walmart, said on the conference call. "This essentially cancels Thanksgiving for hundreds of thousands of workers."


"It's not like Walmart is financially hurting. It's not like they're not making unbelievable sums of money. The price of this is really decimating an important family day in our country."



Seems the complaint is that Walmart is making enough money that it shouldn't start Black Friday early and therefore be open Thursday thus makign people work.

Yeah, how dare they pay people money to work in this burgeoning economy.

cattails
11-14-2012, 10:51 PM
They are bitching because they are not getting overtime pay or bonus pay for working on Thursday. Its not true "overtime" pay because legally any employer must pay OT when a worker hit 40hrs in any given work week. These Walmart employees are not working hours 41,42, 43, 44 etc. They just don't think its fair that they have to work on Thanksgiving in prep for "black friday". Instead they believe they because they are working on this particular Thurday, its overtime. See they believe they are entitled to Thanksgiving off, and by forcing them to work, Walmart has wrong them.


Well in that case it is a simple company policy. We work shut downs at some of the plants we work in on some weekends and regardless of hours I pay my people time and a half for 8 hours no matter if we are there 5 hours, most of the time it is nights walking out in the morning. I have good people and try to treat them like family, works out very well. Wal Mart has CEO policy and don't know their employees but hey it is a job that a lot of people would love to have.

cattails
11-14-2012, 10:58 PM
NYT's article from 2007 saying Walmart settled out of court to pay $33.5M in back wages to unpaid overtime
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/26/business/26walmart.html?_r=0

CBS News article from 2009 where Walmart LOST a lawsuit in Oregon for unpaid overtime wages
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-533818.html

Daily Finance article from 10/29/2012 on a lawsuit coming ahead of these strikes
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/10/29/walmart-unpaid-overtime-lawsuit-strikes/

ITS NOT ABOUT WORKING ON A HOLIDAY...THIS IS A LONG STANDING ILLEGAL PRACTICE THAT HAS BEEN WIDELY REPORTED AND STILL HASNT STOPPED


Well Steve it seems clear that Wal Mart was guilty and paid the piper, that how it works. If they are not they don't pay. Holiday is a company policy to work or not to work.

jazyd
11-14-2012, 10:58 PM
Pretty simple, go work somewhere else. And is Kroger open on Thanksgiving, Walgreens, CVS, any retail stores and do their employees gripe? How about hospitals, maintence workers come in on TDay? Highway patrol officers? Police, Fire Dept?

Also, we keep using a word that really doesn't apply, WORK, instead of they are getting paid to come in and do a few things while moving at a snails pace. Anyone see a lot of Walmart employees moving fast?

cattails
11-14-2012, 11:11 PM
Pretty simple, go work somewhere else. And is Kroger open on Thanksgiving, Walgreens, CVS, any retail stores and do their employees gripe? How about hospitals, maintence workers come in on TDay? Highway patrol officers? Police, Fire Dept?

Also, we keep using a word that really doesn't apply, WORK, instead of they are getting paid to come in and do a few things while moving at a snails pace. Anyone see a lot of Walmart employees moving fast?

That is funny because we have done a few Sam's Club and Wal Marts, we have gone all the way to Springfield, Mo and the Wal Mart staff moves so slow I can only leave a few people there, they are remodel projects and merchandise has to be moved by Wal Mart and back up the next morning. My guys run out of work inside and then go outside to work, Wal Mart workers move really slow.

jazyd
11-15-2012, 07:25 AM
Carl, they are trainees for federal government work :)



That is funny because we have done a few Sam's Club and Wal Marts, we have gone all the way to Springfield, Mo and the Wal Mart staff moves so slow I can only leave a few people there, they are remodel projects and merchandise has to be moved by Wal Mart and back up the next morning. My guys run out of work inside and then go outside to work, Wal Mart workers move really slow.

cattails
11-15-2012, 05:42 PM
Carl, they are trainees for federal government work :)


Well if that is the case then they need first hand training in how to hold up a shovel using the lean system. That applies also to state and local workers. Remenber the question: How many government workers does it take to screw in a light bulb? Answer: one to get the ladder, another to hold the ladder, a third to get the bulb and a 4th to screw it in.

Darrell KSR
11-15-2012, 10:15 PM
My 23 year old daughter is working at a hospital til 7 a.m. Thanksgiving day.

My 20 year old son is working at a place bussing tables from 9 a.m. til closing Thanksgiving day (hopefully around 6 p.m.)

My 20 year old daughter is working at a movie theatre from Noon til 8 p.m. Thanksgiving day.

We will have a late Thanksgiving meal around 8:15 p.m. It's not the time that makes the holiday; it's the people. We will even be fortunate that my oldest daughter has off Friday and Saturday, and after getting a few hours sleep, she will hit the road and be with us Thanksgiving night.

We will eat, then my kids will engage in their normal pre-Black Friday tradition of "camping out"--as a joke--at the "Dollar Tree"-- and posting pics on their Facebook. They will have their chairs, thermos bottles and blankets, and I will try not to die laughing while I take the pictures.

We will then come home and plan Black Friday adventures. Fill the family time with what's available. A little inconvenient? Sure. But all of my children contribute to their own education and spending money, and they appreciate a dollar. My middle daughter's account was low a week or two ago, and I called her telling her I had transferred money in it, and she told me it wasn't necessary; she was getting paid in 3 days at her "Tuscaloosa job"--she works there, and works in Birmingham once a month and on holidays. Appreciates both her jobs.

Barely over minimum wage, no benefits at any of the places (not my oldest daughter, but the other two), and happy to have a job, even on. Thanksgiving day. There will be no striking in our household from it.

jazyd
11-15-2012, 10:27 PM
The true American family, you have taught them well Darrell. I hope she arrives hope safely and please tell her to make sure she gets the sleep. See your kids have been taught the value of a dollar by working for it, not having it given to them, or griping about working in a place that isn't hard work to begin with.

happy TDay



My 23 year old daughter is working at a hospital til 7 a.m. Thanksgiving day.

My 20 year old son is working at a place bussing tables from 9 a.m. til closing Thanksgiving day (hopefully around 6 p.m.)

My 20 year old daughter is working at a movie theatre from Noon til 8 p.m. Thanksgiving day.

We will have a late Thanksgiving meal around 8:15 p.m. It's not the time that makes the holiday; it's the people. We will even be fortunate that my oldest daughter has off Friday and Saturday, and after getting a few hours sleep, she will hit the road and be with us Thanksgiving night.

We will eat, then my kids will engage in their normal pre-Black Friday tradition of "camping out"--as a joke--at the "Dollar Tree"-- and posting pics on their Facebook. They will have their chairs, thermos bottles and blankets, and I will try not to die laughing while I take the pictures.

We will then come home and plan Black Friday adventures. Fill the family time with what's available. A little inconvenient? Sure. But all of my children contribute to their own education and spending money, and they appreciate a dollar. My middle daughter's account was low a week or two ago, and I called her telling her I had transferred money in it, and she told me it wasn't necessary; she was getting paid in 3 days at her "Tuscaloosa job"--she works there, and works in Birmingham once a month and on holidays. Appreciates both her jobs.

Barely over minimum wage, no benefits at any of the places (not my oldest daughter, but the other two), and happy to have a job, even on. Thanksgiving day. There will be no striking in our household from it.

CitizenBBN
11-15-2012, 11:18 PM
The true American family, you have taught them well Darrell.

If Darrell isn't one of the nation's best parents I demand a recount. I wish he really did have 17 kids, we need all the people of their caliber in this country we can get.

In this economy anyone should be grateful for having a job, period, even grateful to get a day of work and pay regardless of the day.

cattails
11-16-2012, 07:49 AM
My 23 year old daughter is working at a hospital til 7 a.m. Thanksgiving day.

My 20 year old son is working at a place bussing tables from 9 a.m. til closing Thanksgiving day (hopefully around 6 p.m.)

My 20 year old daughter is working at a movie theatre from Noon til 8 p.m. Thanksgiving day.

We will have a late Thanksgiving meal around 8:15 p.m. It's not the time that makes the holiday; it's the people. We will even be fortunate that my oldest daughter has off Friday and Saturday, and after getting a few hours sleep, she will hit the road and be with us Thanksgiving night.

We will eat, then my kids will engage in their normal pre-Black Friday tradition of "camping out"--as a joke--at the "Dollar Tree"-- and posting pics on their Facebook. They will have their chairs, thermos bottles and blankets, and I will try not to die laughing while I take the pictures.

We will then come home and plan Black Friday adventures. Fill the family time with what's available. A little inconvenient? Sure. But all of my children contribute to their own education and spending money, and they appreciate a dollar. My middle daughter's account was low a week or two ago, and I called her telling her I had transferred money in it, and she told me it wasn't necessary; she was getting paid in 3 days at her "Tuscaloosa job"--she works there, and works in Birmingham once a month and on holidays. Appreciates both her jobs.

Barely over minimum wage, no benefits at any of the places (not my oldest daughter, but the other two), and happy to have a job, even on. Thanksgiving day. There will be no striking in our household from it.



You should be proud of your children Darrell, they know what work is. I have 3 children and all are workers and they learned at an early age. Want something, go get it, don't expect someone to give it to you. My grand-children not so much, some are, some aren't, so much for the new generation.

jazyd
11-20-2012, 10:25 PM
This really is all about trying to unionize more Walmart stores, nothing more, stir up the employees by telling them how horrible they ahve it and get them to vote in the union and everything will be wonderful.

By the way Bass Pro Shops will be open Thanksgiving Day, not night but day. I went several years ago to get something thinking it would be slow and I could rush right in. Nope, very busy all day is what I was told.

KSRBEvans
11-21-2012, 02:40 PM
Lots of "non-essential" places are open Thanksgiving. Tomorrow will be one of the busiest days of the year at Disney World. Should they not be open? How about movie theaters, restaurants, etc.?

As others have pointed out, that is not necessarily overtime work--it's holiday work, and each employer can set its salary as it sees fit on those days. Employees who don't like that can exercise their freedom to seek employment elsewhere. Consumers are free to protest such a radical concept. God Bless America.

CattyWampus
11-21-2012, 04:36 PM
Here's an interesting article (http://blogs.payscale.com/content/2011/05/target-vs-walmart.html) that compares the wages at Walmart and Target. As far as those employees who "aren't paid fair wages", there are very little difference between the two. Of course, Walmart is demonized and Target is painted as a model employer. For sure, the only reason that Walmart is targeted by the left is that they have 1.4 million employees and the unions sure would like to have these people paying union dues.

The left pushes for a "living wage" without regard to the value of the job, or the educational/training qualifications of the workers. For the left, even if someone quit school, can't make change for a dollar, or is totally unmotivated, they should be paid just for breathing.

I see a lot of comments from people complaining about the people who work at Walmart. I suspect that my local Walmart is pretty representative of all Walmart stores. There are a small group of employees who do a great job, but the majority of their workers wouldn't work in the proverbial pie factory. At my local Walmart, the good workers often seem to be working the weekends and the reason these people are scheduled that way is that they show up for work and show up on time. It's unfair, but these people know that it comes with the territory. They know that most of their co-workers are undependable and even when they're at work, their effort is minimal.

Having talked to a number of the "old hands" at Walmart, most of them are able to make more money at Walmart than they did at a local retailer. And, most of them appreciate the jobs they have.

Darrell KSR
11-22-2012, 12:58 PM
Oldest daughter drove straight in from a 12-hour shift in Nashville, and she is in town (sleeping at the moment, but safely here). Oldest son is working; he said "the boss" said they would get off at 4 pm today, no matter what, and middle daughter's shift was changed to 6pm to closing (about 1 a.m.). So Thanksgiving dinner at 4:30 today! It works.

jazyd
11-22-2012, 10:54 PM
Kroger open today, lots of stores were open so the Wally World people need to shut it down, they are being played by the unions.

ColonelSteve
11-22-2012, 11:38 PM
Kroger open today, lots of stores were open so the Wally World people need to shut it down, they are being played by the unions.

It's not about...being open...on Thanksgiving...it's about stopping illegal practices regarding unpaid overtime...the timing is designed to hurt Walmart on the busiest shopping day of the year, it's called strategy

CattyWampus
11-23-2012, 05:17 AM
It's not about...being open...on Thanksgiving...it's about stopping illegal practices regarding unpaid overtime...the timing is designed to hurt Walmart on the busiest shopping day of the year, it's called strategy

You just don't get it. Failure to follow the laws in regard to overtime will be handled by the NLRB. In the past, when it was determined that Walmart broke the law, they paid hefty fines.

This organized walkout is about the unions trying to increase the number of people who will pay the union dues. Nothing more, nothing less. You mentioned strategy. Whose strategy? How can unions develop a strategy for non-union employees? If the majority of employees wanted a union to represent them, they would already be unionized. The unions have not been able to organize the Walmart workforce, not because Walmart has kept them out, but because the workers have kept them out. The workers don't want the union.

Doc
11-23-2012, 08:45 AM
If Walmart employees are striking because of unpaid overtime, their strategy in ridicululously dumb. If an employer is failing to pay overtime you go to the labor board, file a complaint and if you are correct then you get paid plus the company gets fined. It's an extremely simple and effective process. A strike is far less productive for that plus it could cost an employee his job. So if the strategy for unpaid OT is to strike, they need new leadership

jazyd
11-23-2012, 09:09 AM
board rules will not allow me to say what I think of your continued blind eye to what is going on.

1.4 million workers, unions are shrinking, unions have a big buddy in the WH, unions need money from workers so the big boss can keep his high standard of living, boss cares nothing about Walmart or the workers. boss is like a politician, wants power, greed, money.

Why are they not striking at Kroger, Target, Bass Pro Shops and all the rest who worked yesterday? It is because the liberal democrat party has not targeted them like they have Walmart.



It's not about...being open...on Thanksgiving...it's about stopping illegal practices regarding unpaid overtime...the timing is designed to hurt Walmart on the busiest shopping day of the year, it's called strategy

Darrell KSR
11-23-2012, 11:49 AM
I don't have any problem whatsoever with suing the heck out of Walmart if they are engaged in illegal practices. I just don't believe they are. To the extent they have done so, they have been sued. Lawyers are all-too-happy to practice their craft for the mutual benefit of the lawyer and the employees they represent when that is the case.

I don't take a real stance on unions. I am sure they have their benefit. I'm not an "anti-union" guy. But I have still yet to hear the first cogent argument for striking. It is not that Walmart is engaged in illegal practices. If they are (and I don't believe it), they will be sued, and lose. Economy is tough, even for lawyers--I promise it's easy to find one if there's illegal practices going on. (Even in a good economy, that's the case.)

I visited two Walmarts last night and my wife re-visited one this morning. Good employees there, helpful and courteous. I am sure that in a perfect world, they'd rather not be working, but it sure seemed like they had their heads screwed on straight and were thankful that they had gainful employment. I made sure to thank several of them and smile at them to let them know they were appreciated.

I have worked the day after Thanksgiving in a retail establishment before, hauling merchandise from the warehouse to put on conveyor belts for orders placed on the showroom. (Some of you may remember the old "Service Merchandise" stores; this was a knock-off competitor, locally owned in the Monroe, La. area, with several large department stores there). Busiest I have ever been working. Funny, though, it made the day go by very quickly, and I had such a good feeling when it was done of accomplishment, even though I was just a teenager performing a pretty menial task.

I don't think times have changed that much. I saw many of the same people last night as I used to work with 30+ years ago.

jazyd
11-23-2012, 01:08 PM
Darrell, I think Service Merchandise was based out of Nashville. Like all stores of their kind they are gone, shame as I liked them. Wilsons was just like them, headquarters was Baton Rouge and was a good customer of mine. I was in BR on the day they announced they were closing, I had an appointment that afternoon with them, naturally I canceled it



I don't have any problem whatsoever with suing the heck out of Walmart if they are engaged in illegal practices. I just don't believe they are. To the extent they have done so, they have been sued. Lawyers are all-too-happy to practice their craft for the mutual benefit of the lawyer and the employees they represent when that is the case.

I don't take a real stance on unions. I am sure they have their benefit. I'm not an "anti-union" guy. But I have still yet to hear the first cogent argument for striking. It is not that Walmart is engaged in illegal practices. If they are (and I don't believe it), they will be sued, and lose. Economy is tough, even for lawyers--I promise it's easy to find one if there's illegal practices going on. (Even in a good economy, that's the case.)

I visited two Walmarts last night and my wife re-visited one this morning. Good employees there, helpful and courteous. I am sure that in a perfect world, they'd rather not be working, but it sure seemed like they had their heads screwed on straight and were thankful that they had gainful employment. I made sure to thank several of them and smile at them to let them know they were appreciated.

I have worked the day after Thanksgiving in a retail establishment before, hauling merchandise from the warehouse to put on conveyor belts for orders placed on the showroom. (Some of you may remember the old "Service Merchandise" stores; this was a knock-off competitor, locally owned in the Monroe, La. area, with several large department stores there). Busiest I have ever been working. Funny, though, it made the day go by very quickly, and I had such a good feeling when it was done of accomplishment, even though I was just a teenager performing a pretty menial task.

I don't think times have changed that much. I saw many of the same people last night as I used to work with 30+ years ago.

ColonelSteve
11-23-2012, 03:15 PM
Would you work minimum wage and unpaid OT to put up with THIS?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O6IMYSSs7c

bigsky
11-23-2012, 04:02 PM
Walmart employees are not working overtime for free, as "unpaid overtime" implies. Why would they work straight time for nothing, that much less OT? Ridiculous claim.

I've been off work for a month. Everything is there waiting for me to do when I get back. So I will work long hours and get paid the same monthly salary regardless. But I don't consider that "unpaid overtime". It will just be doing my job.

And Walmart starts even part time employees higher than fed min wage where I live.

Doc
11-23-2012, 08:10 PM
Would you work minimum wage and unpaid OT to put up with THIS?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O6IMYSSs7c

Nope but then I have 4 degrees. I spent 10 years in college and amassed massive debt to buy into a practice so why would I work for Walmart? Were I without any degrees then I likely would work for whomever would hire me and pay me the most. That very well could be walmart. I would work my ass off and hopefully move up the corp ladder or quit and find another job

jazyd
11-23-2012, 10:09 PM
If I needed a job I would. But when you work retail whether WM or others you expect that, it is part of the job, something you like some of them have a hard time comprehending.
You should really take the word Colonel out of your screen name and replace it with maybe, buck private because that is about where your brain is.



Would you work minimum wage and unpaid OT to put up with THIS?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O6IMYSSs7c

bigsky
11-24-2012, 10:04 AM
BTW, the protests were complete failures. Coming so soon after the unions destroyed 18,500 jobs at Hostess, this latest failure shows how union power is gone in the private sector. It's only government and education that unions retain their clout, to the detriment of both, and the underlying constituents of taxpayers and children.

ColonelSteve
11-24-2012, 10:19 AM
BTW, the protests were complete failures. Coming so soon after the unions destroyed 18,500 jobs at Hostess, this latest failure shows how union power is gone in the private sector. It's only government and education that unions retain their clout, to the detriment of both, and the underlying constituents of taxpayers and children.

Uh no...unions didnt destroy Hostess...Hostess destroyed Hostess

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20121125,0,966735.column

bigsky
11-24-2012, 10:33 AM
A few columns by union friendly commentators hardly proves the point. Venture capitalism has made millionaires and even billionaires out of hard working Americans. And paid big returns for those putting their money at risk. The unions in this case shut down the bakeries and forced bankruptcy and that's the simple and all too obvious answer. No product, no sales, no cash flow equals bankruptcy. Period.

CattyWampus
11-24-2012, 03:12 PM
Peter Suderman of Reason Mag destroys all the Walmart detractors in seventeen tweets:

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-truth-about-wal-mart-2012-11

CitizenBBN
11-25-2012, 01:44 AM
Would you work minimum wage and unpaid OT to put up with THIS?

First off, there is not a single mention of "overtime" in that article. Not one. I searched using the browser. Neither does the word "unpaid".

Second, that job is far preferable to:

-- Unemployment
-- The Salvation Army
-- Doing roofing in 100 degree heat for the same money or less
-- A rehab in a flea infested house for $10 an hour (my contractor guy is doing it right now and his guys make $10/hour, no benefits)
-- About 200 jobs Mike Rowe has done on Dirty Jobs that would gag a maggot
-- Working 60 or 80 hours a week or more with no family life or time to see friends and hoping it will cover the mortgage, which covers a ton of self employed people in this economy.
-- mucking out commercial chicken coops including the dead chickens or about 100 other really fun farm jobs for the same money and no benefits

How much time do we have? There are millions, likely 10s of millions of people with no job or worse jobs. Instead of embracing the post WWII American conceit that citizenship guarantees a life of upper middle class prosperity and anyone without it is somehow being exploited and the government should intervene to fix it, they should be happy to have jobs when so many don't and happy to be getting paid even on Thanksgiving.