Gov. Brown ups the anti-gun hypocrisy meter

[CitizenBBN]

He's complaining the relatively loose laws in Nevada and Arizona are a "backdoor for terrorists" in the aftermath of the San Bernadino terror attack.

The problem (beyond tying terrorism to gun control)? All the guns used in the attack were bought in California.

For any who don't know, California has the toughest gun laws in the country. 10 day waiting period, 10 round magazine limit, must pass a written test to buy a handgun, and most notably given the current anti-gun wish list they require background checks on private sales. So these people were able to buy the guns and commit the attack with laws as tough or tougher than anything being asked for now as "common sense gun control". I think that's about as empirical as you can get that these new laws will do nothing to prevent these attacks and that the problem is terrorism, not guns.

If you can buy heroin in any school in this country, I'm betting bad guys and terrorists and lunatics can find a gun even if we banned sales of all guns tomorrow. We ban narcotics yet tens of millions of Americans buy them regularly, but background checks on guns will make all the difference on preventing bad people from getting them?

not to mention the IEDs. Remarkably these people ignored the laws against making homemade pipe bombs.

The only "gigantic back door" i've seen in this tragedy is the visa application process to come into the US.

[Doc]

Yeah but they didn't have to take a Rorschach test

[KeithKSR]

Yeah but they didn't have to take a Rorschach test

California relies on the Horshack test.


5155

[CitizenBBN]

Coming out now the two ARs may have been bought by a third person a few years ago. Unclear if it was an illegal straw purchase for the shooter or if this guy just let Farook use these guns. If he sold them or transferred them to farook in Cali without a background check that would violate state law.

The thing is, all of this still seems to have been done in California, and it proves the point that bad guys don't have to obey the laws, and that's why private checks are a waste of time. Bad guys aren't going to do those checks. For regular crimes less than 10% of guns used come from any kind of up and up purchase, private, straw or otherwise, and for these kinds of terror crimes it's obvious these groups can find someone who can pass the NICS checks no problem and is willing to buy the guns.

If Farook just took the guns then that's illegal, but not a gun law crime for the guy who bought them.

President will be on tonight to reassure us about the war on terror. It's good for him to quell fears, the chances of being killed by a terrorist are still about the same as being struck by lightning, but I'm sure he'll call for gun control that will do no good, and not call for the tougher immigration and investigation policies we need.

[CitizenBBN]

Now reports they found a receipt from Bud's, which is a lexington gun store.

BUT, Buds is one of the largest gun and accessory online sellers in the country, they just happen to be in Lexington, and the receipt was NOT for a gun. Such a sale would be illegal other than to ship it to a local FFL who would then do the background checks etc. Also I seriously doubt it was for ammo b/c I think online ammo sales to Cali are illegal so they woudln't have shipped that either.

It was likely for some kind of accessory like a holster or whatever. Buds, Walmart, Cabellas, lots of places that sell that stuff and it's not regulated even in California.

I'm sure they bought their bomb parts at Home Depot or Lowes or Walmart, not that it matters either.

The guns I get tracing, and maybe the ammo, and any explosives. The rest is just sensationalism.

[KeithKSR]

They had a crapload of mags that exceeded the Cali ten round max requirement.

[CitizenBBN]

They had a crapload of mags that exceeded the Cali ten round max requirement.

That doesn't surprise me a bit. Way too easy to get those elsewhere, and I'm sure there are a ton that were in the state prior to their ban.

If Buds sent them any though they're in big trouble. A lot of gun sellers just won't sell to certain states at all b/c of the legal complexities and not wanting to mess up. I doubt Buds made that error though, i'm betting they got them privately or went over state lines themselves to get them.

[KeithKSR]

That doesn't surprise me a bit. Way too easy to get those elsewhere, and I'm sure there are a ton that were in the state prior to their ban.

If Buds sent them any though they're in big trouble. A lot of gun sellers just won't sell to certain states at all b/c of the legal complexities and not wanting to mess up. I doubt Buds made that error though, i'm betting they got them privately or went over state lines themselves to get them.

Probably bought a holster or something from Bud's, I don't see them doing much Cali business other than their Cali compliant stuff.

[CitizenBBN]

I'm sure buds just send them accessories, could have been anything.

[jazyd]

The two pistols were bought several years ago, more than likely before this guy became so radicalized and certainly before the wife. So he buys the guns legally, goes thru back ground check, no mental illness, fellow employees said he was fine, no sign of radicalism, no anger issues. In other words no new gun laws would have stopped that sale. The two AR 15's were not bought by him. Feds have raided home of guy who bought them. He wasn't there

Farooks dad said his son was obsessed with Israel and he told him to be patient because Israel would not exist in two years because America, Russia and France would move the Jews back to Ukraine ????. Mom says dad was drug addict and alcoholic. Nice family

New gun laws won't stop radical Islamic Muslims from getting guns into this country, they can get them across the border as easily as bringing terrorists across the border.

And still no action by BO or radical left wing liberal democrats for all the crime and murders in Chicago, a city and state run by liberal gun hating democrats, crooks for the most psrt

[StuBleedsBlue2]

The two pistols were bought several years ago, more than likely before this guy became so radicalized and certainly before the wife. So he buys the guns legally, goes thru back ground check, no mental illness, fellow employees said he was fine, no sign of radicalism, no anger issues. In other words no new gun laws would have stopped that sale. The two AR 15's were not bought by him. Feds have raided home of guy who bought them. He wasn't there

Farooks dad said his son was obsessed with Israel and he told him to be patient because Israel would not exist in two years because America, Russia and France would move the Jews back to Ukraine ????. Mom says dad was drug addict and alcoholic. Nice family

New gun laws won't stop radical Islamic Muslims from getting guns into this country, they can get them across the border as easily as bringing terrorists across the border.

And still no action by BO or radical left wing liberal democrats for all the crime and murders in Chicago, a city and state run by liberal gun hating democrats, crooks for the most psrt

I love it when people that have no clue about what's going on in Chicago want to bring it up. In case you didn't notice, we have a huge police problem to deal with that makes it a little more difficult to solve problems. I also would love to point out that Chicago has conceal carry laws that has done absolutely nothing to deter crime. Violent crimes in the more affluent neighborhoods have never been higher since I've been here for 20 years now than in the last couple of years.

Stick with something you know about, because Chicago isn't one of them.

[suncat05]

Won't this take a really nasty turn when some of those "Fast & Furious" deal guns start turning up in the terrorists hands? What kind of tap dancing will we see then? And I'm sure that will be entertainment at its finest.

[Doc]

Other popular Buds

http://www.budweiser.com/en/our-beers/budweiser/jcr:content/image.img.png/budweiser-bottle-99x150.png

http://rs972.pbsrc.com/albums/ae208/chronik-bud/001.jpg~c200

http://local-iq.com/images/stories/08.07_issue61/08.07_mus_buddyguy.gif

[UKHistory]

And let's not forget these terrorists had pipe bombs and an explosive they meant to go off. So what it says is that terrorists will find a way. And if the government could actually secure the gunds and the pipes and whatever else they could secure, terrorists would brandish carving knives,use their cars, set fires.

Gun control is not the answer to thwarting terrorism. I get not wanting to discriminate against folks--but give me your tired and poor huddle masses is a nice saying on a statue. The second amendment is a right that shall not be infringed uponl. And it has nothing to do with hunting.

Let's don't use situations for political gain. Horrible attempts at the abuse of power.

[jazyd]

And let's not forget these terrorists had pipe bombs and an explosive they meant to go off. So what it says is that terrorists will find a way. And if the government could actually secure the gunds and the pipes and whatever else they could secure, terrorists would brandish carving knives,use their cars, set fires.

Gun control is not the answer to thwarting terrorism. I get not wanting to discriminate against folks--but give me your tired and poor huddle masses is a nice saying on a statue. The second amendment is a right that shall not be infringed uponl. And it has nothing to do with hunting.

Let's don't use situations for political gain. Horrible attempts at the abuse of power.

They found 11 pipes for making bombs in that apartment so should we outlaw pipes? There was a murder in Hattiesburg, Ms yesterday by 3 men and they wounded two more. So one charged with murder and the other two charged with being an accessory. They used pistols, no AK15, and the guns were stolen. Which is how criminals do their thing, so what gun laws would have prevented that murder?

The liberals dont' want to talk about facts, they just want to stir up a segment of the population that will keep voting them in because they just want to feel good.

I respect Doc, he doesn't own a gun and for now has no intentiont o, but he also understands the constitution and if I want to own a gun it is my right to do so. Just like it is my right to go to church and no government shall be able to infringe on that right, the constitution says the government shall not establish a religion, it doesn't say there is a separation of the church and government.

Not one single new gun law by Brown or BO will have changed what happened in California, not one. Terrorists will get a weapon, criminals will get weapons and each will murder people. But amazingly Brown nor BO want to talk about murders within LA or Chicago by black on black crime or by illegals in San Fran or other cities in California, that is taboo

[jazyd]

BO will wiggle out, not turn over any documents, will have his AG fight it.

[jazyd]

I love it when people that have no clue about what's going on in Chicago want to bring it up. In case you didn't notice, we have a huge police problem to deal with that makes it a little more difficult to solve problems. I also would love to point out that Chicago has conceal carry laws that has done absolutely nothing to deter crime. Violent crimes in the more affluent neighborhoods have never been higher since I've been here for 20 years now than in the last couple of years.

Stick with something you know about, because Chicago isn't one of them.

Oh I know plenty, and I know BO has done nothing about it, never talks about it, and you wonderful crooked little shi.azz mayor will throw everyone and anyone under the bus to keep things from getting hot for him. Your problem is the police, your problem is black on black crime because they don't care about property, life, education, just drugs,crime and killing anyone who gets in their way. You really think it is a police problem when some black thug kills some little kid, or kills a kid to show his dad what they can do to his family. Police have nothing to do with that. You can blame police all you want but your problem is a long list of liberal crooked politicians who won't do a damn thing. As long as that money flows under the table Chicago will continue on its path.

[KeithKSR]

I love it when people that have no clue about what's going on in Chicago want to bring it up. In case you didn't notice, we have a huge police problem to deal with that makes it a little more difficult to solve problems. I also would love to point out that Chicago has conceal carry laws that has done absolutely nothing to deter crime. Violent crimes in the more affluent neighborhoods have never been higher since I've been here for 20 years now than in the last couple of years.

Stick with something you know about, because Chicago isn't one of them.

Biggest problem is too many corrupt liberals for way too many years.

[CitizenBBN]

I love it when people that have no clue about what's going on in Chicago want to bring it up. In case you didn't notice, we have a huge police problem to deal with that makes it a little more difficult to solve problems. I also would love to point out that Chicago has conceal carry laws that has done absolutely nothing to deter crime. Violent crimes in the more affluent neighborhoods have never been higher since I've been here for 20 years now than in the last couple of years.

Stick with something you know about, because Chicago isn't one of them.

When it comes to carry, even in Chicago, not sure how solid you're standing either. :)

First, carry in Chicago is very new. Not just since the MacDonald decision but the city drug that out subsequently as much as possible and continue to do so. You don't pass carry and the next month crime rates go down even in gun friendly states, it takes time for any deterrent effect to take place. To be harsh it takes some bad guys having guns pointed back at them for a while.

Second, Chicago's version of concealed carry and even home defense with guns is severely constrained. Even to have a gun in your house requires all kinds of hoops and license fees. Steps which btw discriminate against the poor of the city. $100 per year per gun plus getting the permit.

It also restricts carry so you can't carry on public transportation, again making it very hard for the urban poor to carry at all, which is the whole point. So if you take the subway or a bus you basically can't carry.

I didn't even get into the whole FOID card thing, how Chicago banned gun stores altogether till 2014 (when forced to allow them), and they still limit purchases to one handgun per 30 days with all kinds of hassles.

So it's not really certain if carry and home defense in Chicago would help or not b/c it is a very limited version of it and it's only been in place for 2 years and that's not counting all the delays the city threw up and still throws up to the whole concept.

I do agree carry is only one small part of the issue in Chicago. The police are part of it, but most of it is a culture of victim society and socialism that has created a permanent underclass that believes they are there b/c of the actions of others and not themselves and are thus justified in resorting to crime etc. against those outside that class or whatever else they want to do. They have no hope, no sense of self and no pride in concepts like hard work, all brought on by decades of leftist nonsense that has produced wonderful ironies like having the highest paid teachers in the country along with the worst schools.

Corruption, graft, and vote buying handouts destroying the human soul are the source of the broader problems in Chicago. I really like the city, but the problems it faces are due directly to decades of bad government and the handout train that has come with it. Warehousing in projects, destruction of the small business economic base, etc. have led to the gangs and drugs from a lack of hope, opportunity and even desire to improve, and that drives the crime.

I like the city, but it is proof of the failure of the left wing's strategy for economics, race relations and crime. Drag those fat corrupt Aldermen out of their cushy offices, stop regulating everything to death, support businesses instead of burdening them, stand up to the gangs, get people where they can fight back, and things will improve.

[KeithKSR]

The government perpetuates the underclass.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Oh I know plenty, and I know BO has done nothing about it, never talks about it, and you wonderful crooked little shi.azz mayor will throw everyone and anyone under the bus to keep things from getting hot for him. Your problem is the police, your problem is black on black crime because they don't care about property, life, education, just drugs,crime and killing anyone who gets in their way. You really think it is a police problem when some black thug kills some little kid, or kills a kid to show his dad what they can do to his family. Police have nothing to do with that. You can blame police all you want but your problem is a long list of liberal crooked politicians who won't do a damn thing. As long as that money flows under the table Chicago will continue on its path.

Just as I said. You think you know, but you don't. I could make a whole lot of useless assumptions about where you live, but I don't know because I don't live there.

You can't believe everything you read or hear in the media, because they don't know either. You learn the truths by talking to and, more importantly, listening to people.

So, until, you're walking the streets of Chicago across neighborhoods, meeting people of all backgrounds, politicians, law enforcement, firefighters, for an extensive period of time, you just really look foolish espousing the same useless drivel that all the other right wing talking heads spew and get wrong too.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

When it comes to carry, even in Chicago, not sure how solid you're standing either. :)

First, carry in Chicago is very new. Not just since the MacDonald decision but the city drug that out subsequently as much as possible and continue to do so. You don't pass carry and the next month crime rates go down even in gun friendly states, it takes time for any deterrent effect to take place. To be harsh it takes some bad guys having guns pointed back at them for a while.

Second, Chicago's version of concealed carry and even home defense with guns is severely constrained. Even to have a gun in your house requires all kinds of hoops and license fees. Steps which btw discriminate against the poor of the city. $100 per year per gun plus getting the permit.

It also restricts carry so you can't carry on public transportation, again making it very hard for the urban poor to carry at all, which is the whole point. So if you take the subway or a bus you basically can't carry.

I didn't even get into the whole FOID card thing, how Chicago banned gun stores altogether till 2014 (when forced to allow them), and they still limit purchases to one handgun per 30 days with all kinds of hassles.

So it's not really certain if carry and home defense in Chicago would help or not b/c it is a very limited version of it and it's only been in place for 2 years and that's not counting all the delays the city threw up and still throws up to the whole concept.

I do agree carry is only one small part of the issue in Chicago. The police are part of it, but most of it is a culture of victim society and socialism that has created a permanent underclass that believes they are there b/c of the actions of others and not themselves and are thus justified in resorting to crime etc. against those outside that class or whatever else they want to do. They have no hope, no sense of self and no pride in concepts like hard work, all brought on by decades of leftist nonsense that has produced wonderful ironies like having the highest paid teachers in the country along with the worst schools.

Corruption, graft, and vote buying handouts destroying the human soul are the source of the broader problems in Chicago. I really like the city, but the problems it faces are due directly to decades of bad government and the handout train that has come with it. Warehousing in projects, destruction of the small business economic base, etc. have led to the gangs and drugs from a lack of hope, opportunity and even desire to improve, and that drives the crime.

I like the city, but it is proof of the failure of the left wing's strategy for economics, race relations and crime. Drag those fat corrupt Aldermen out of their cushy offices, stop regulating everything to death, support businesses instead of burdening them, stand up to the gangs, get people where they can fight back, and things will improve.

You miss a key point. Most people in Chicago don't want to carry guns.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Biggest problem is too many corrupt liberals for way too many years.

Spoken like a true outsider.

I'm not going to deny our city, and state hasn't had its fair share of corruption from both parties, but this city has always been one of the greatest cities in the world.

We will always be one of the greatest cities and will continue reject modern conservative ideologies.

[KeithKSR]

Spoken like a true outsider.

I'm not going to deny our city, and state hasn't had its fair share of corruption from both parties, but this city has always been one of the greatest cities in the world.

We will always be one of the greatest cities and will continue reject modern conservative ideologies.

You just keep voting for the Dalys and Rham Emanuel types.

[Doc]

Spoken like a true outsider.

I'm not going to deny our city, and state hasn't had its fair share of corruption from both parties, but this city has always been one of the greatest cities in the world.

We will always be one of the greatest cities and will continue reject modern conservative ideologies.

And maybe you too can achieve Detroit status

[KeithKSR]

And maybe you too can achieve Detroit status

Chicago, the new Detriot. It's just a matter of time.

[jazyd]

Chicago, the new Detriot. It's just a matter of time.

No, the liberals will keep proping up the city to make it look good, keep that money flowing under the table, make sure its always those mean ole conservatives...notice how he said it was conservatives fault.
All those murders do keep the funeral homes in business along with the flower companies and even the bullet mfg's.
But stu says its a police problem, not the politicians in charge but like a true liberal, its the police fault that those nice little black gang members kill innocent children in allies and houses.

[CitizenBBN]

You miss a key point. Most people in Chicago don't want to carry guns.

No I agree with you it's a key point. It goes to the pretty left leaning nature of the populace that has supported gun control and welfare handouts and taxes and regs on businesses. All of that together has led to the mess we see there today with high budgets without the economic base to support it, a permanent underclass and rampant adherence to the victim mentality.

That's how the restriction on public transportation got through, b/c Chicagoans don't like the idea of the person next to them having a gun. So I agree w you completely.

The problem is they are wrong, just like how every time open or concealed carry has been voted on people say it will be "the wild west in the streets". 50 states now have done one or the other or both and it's never happened, yet it still gets said.

To me your point underscores the problem. People there need to want to carry and more important have other law abiding responsible people carry. Around here people are all but gleeful at the idea of being around other armed, law abiding folks who can take action in the face of a crime. You'll notice we have less crime. That's not the only reason, but it is IMO one of the reasons.

[CitizenBBN]

Spoken like a true outsider.

I'm not going to deny our city, and state hasn't had its fair share of corruption from both parties, but this city has always been one of the greatest cities in the world.

We will always be one of the greatest cities and will continue reject modern conservative ideologies.

Chicago has massive corruption by American standards. Doesn't make it a "bad city", I love chicago, but that can't change the truth of its longstanding corruption that continues today. Also its longstanding way of getting votes by using the spoils system, more than most places (though they all do it Chicago is unreal good at it).

New Orleans is a great city too, also has a high level of corruption. All cities have some, but some have better greased machines than others, and Chicago is truly a machine.

No doubt it will continue to reject conservative ideologies, right through its bankruptcy proceedings.

FWIW there are some I reject as well, but Chicago would do well to embrace some Libertarian principles, the 2nd amendment among them.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Chicago has massive corruption by American standards. Doesn't make it a "bad city", I love chicago, but that can't change the truth of its longstanding corruption that continues today. Also its longstanding way of getting votes by using the spoils system, more than most places (though they all do it Chicago is unreal good at it).

New Orleans is a great city too, also has a high level of corruption. All cities have some, but some have better greased machines than others, and Chicago is truly a machine.

No doubt it will continue to reject conservative ideologies, right through its bankruptcy proceedings.

FWIW there are some I reject as well, [b]but Chicago would do well to embrace some Libertarian principles[b], the 2nd amendment among them.

I agree, but I'll say the 2nd amendment is accepted, but as I mentioned, it's a city where people overwhelmingly don't want to carry guns and don't feel safe being in public places where people are carrying them. There's a HUGE difference between accepting the 2nd amendment and embracing its lifestyle. There's more than one amendment to focus on, and Chicago is more of a 1st amendment city, but of course that doesn't come without its flaws.

[Darrell KSR]

New Orleans is a great city too, also has a high level of corruption.

They are very good at it, often to the detriment of the area. Sad, really. That city has some phenomenal opportunities, but it's much smaller than, say, a Chicago, and the level of corruption places a stranglehold on what it could be.

Still one of my favorite cities in the U.S., but that's on a visitor level.