Terrorist attacks in Paris

[PedroDaGr8]

Here we go again, death toll at 20 so far and rising rapidly. Very well coordinated, multiple attack sites, suicide bombers and everything. Reports of a man with an AK47 gunning down civilians.

Up to 60 ppl being held hostage at a concert hall.

EDIT: Death toll now at 30

[KSRBEvans]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-E2H1ChJM

[Catonahottinroof]

Obama was on the air with Stephanopoulus this morning and had the audacity to say we have ISIS in check......

[Terry Blue]

Cowards preying on defenseless civilians, lacking guts to fight warriers

[KeithKSR]

Obama was on the air with Stephanopoulus this morning and had the audacity to say we have ISIS in check......

They're just a JV squad...

[bigsky]

Time for the world to wake up

[dan_bgblue]

Death toll up to 160 innocent, unarmed people. It is past time for the world to hunt them down and exterminate them like one would a rabid dog.

[jazyd]

Death toll up to 160 innocent, unarmed people. It is past time for the world to hunt them down and exterminate them like one would a rabid dog.

The French will

[jazyd]

Time for the world to wake up

Sky, we keep saying that and it doesn't happen. 9/11 didnt. The Russian plane that just went down didnt

[Prefontaine]

Scary. We really need to wake up.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/44vzMNG2fZc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

[jazyd]

They're just a JV squad...

Obama is a pissant...if he had any balls this would have never happened. GE is too busy buddying up to his Hollywood friend, playing golf, thinking he is a bSketball star, filling out brackets, and IMO taking care of his Muslim friends

If we had never left Iraq or taken out Isis when they were getting started this mess would not have happened. IMO all this is by design, kill a few of them, make a show but never be serious about it. He doesn't allow the word "war" on terror, he won't let the soldiers in the Ft Hood massacre collect on being killed or wounded by a terrorists Muslim but rather work place violence. He is one of them

Terry says Isis is cowardly, well Obama is the same

[bigsky]

Even the Pope calls it "the thirdworldwar". We need a President who hasnt been surrendering for 7 years.

Somewhere, there is an idiot who thinks ISIS is just "a JV team" that's "been contained".

[kingcat]

Evidently they are smarter than us, if they can accomplish the goal of dividing us along party lines or political leanings.

The blame is on them, period. And if anyone thinks their party affiliation or skin color can solve this dilemma they are hugely deceived. I never thought the day would come when the President of this great country is hated worse than our sworn enemies and the most evil enemies of society.

I won't get involved in any discussion that is clearly going to condemn the United States for this action, but I will offer my sincere disgust that those responsible will continue to grow by fueling such a misplaced hate. And make no mistake, it is "hate" in it's most pure and potent form. May God forgive us.

That will be all from me...have at.

[bigsky]

Like Neville Chamberlain, our leadership has fostered and facilitated with action and rhetoric. They are complicit in their underestimation and dismissal. Today, the world sees Kerry and Obama as useless, weak, and banal.

Holding leadership accountable is our responsibility.

[kingcat]

Who should France blame then? Whoever FOX or MSNBC decides I guess.

Somehow I doubt Parisians will jump upon the agenda driven political rhetoric train we in this country are forced to ride on.

I know i stated I wouldn't get involved here in this "forum" but we do not rule the world, nor can we defend it. You can declare war on a country, or even a religion I guess...but not an adjective. The war on terror thing is a farce..even more so than the war on drugs. And it was from it's outset.

http://www.blueq.com/modules/ecs/images/125846627_xl.png

[bigsky]

France should blame themselves.

[jazyd]

Like Neville Chamberlain, our leadership has fostered and facilitated with action and rhetoric. They are complicit in their underestimation and dismissal. Today, the world sees Kerry and Obama as useless, weak, and banal.

Holding leadership accountable is our responsibility.

Agree/ Issis knows how weak he is, Russia knows, Iran knows, China knows. Everyone knows. How ridiculous does he look after just yesterday morning saying Isis is contained.

We all may be in disagreement on immigartion, social issues, economy, fine we can debate all those. But on this, defeating evil terror we all should agree it will take strong leadership, determination and working with the French, with the Brits, with the Israelis, even some Arabs who stand to benefit, and send it everything we have thru the air and destroy terror. and every time is starts to spring up, destroy that.

[bigsky]

Now that we know one of the terrorists was a recently arrived Syrian refugee, do we support the President importing tens of thousands of them into our country?

[CitizenBBN]

Who is to blame?

well, in the purest sense of course it is ISIS, but bigsky's analogy of Chamberlain is dead on. Obviously Hitler was to blame for the war in Europe, but it is also the responsibility of people and leaders to respond to their environment and take action to protect themselves.

if I walk down the street at 3am in a very bad neighborhood announcing I'm carrying a bunch of money, the mugger is to blame, but so am I. I'm acting with a reckless disregard for the situation, and we can't live in the liberal ideal plane where everything is roses. I mean "liberal" there not politically, but socially, in the people I know who want to always assume everyone is good and OK and it can always be solved with communication and understanding.

Well, that's wrong. It's the right place to always start, but it won't always work. This is one of those times it won't work, but our leader, like Chamberlain, thinks he can just talk and reason with these power mongering fascist lunatics just like chamberlain thought he could come to a reasonable accord with Hitler.

So yes, in part Obama is to blame, by not being willing to take positive action against this evil he has allowed it to grow. is that inaction directly responsible for this specific attack? that's tough to say, or that he could have prevented it, but what is clear is that they are a huge threat to the planet and we are doing nothing but allowing them to become a bigger threat. Clearly the course is to take strong action to eliminate them.

Will it prevent every attack, or every future attack? No, but it will prevent a lot of them, and if we win we can eliminate all but a very few.

Obama is a fool, just like Chamberlain, and I'm sorry if that's offensive, but it's the truth and is supported by the empiricism of history. You don't negotiate with vicious wild animals, you either lock them up or put them down. The US had the power to DRASTICALLY limit the power and growth of ISIS and Obama did NOTHING, and that is well documented. He continues to do almost nothing while they continue to grow.

it's our obligation as Americans to hold our leaders accountable. Like it or not we inherited the power to move the world to have dealt decisively with ISIS years ago, and we continue to refuse to do it.

So yes, just like the guy who climbs on the ledge of the lion cage and falls in, Obama has his share of blame in this travesty. it's not all on him, but he is certainly an accessory to the growth of ISIS.

[suncat05]

The French will

I have to respectfully disagree with you here, jazy. The French will talk tough, sit around and eat cheese and drink wine, talk tough some more, and then go back to doing exactly what they've been doing........taking in even more Muslims and allowing this situation to play out again.
French politicians are the ultimate cowards.

[jazyd]

Now that we know one of the terrorists was a recently arrived Syrian refugee, do we support the President importing tens of thousands of them into our country?

I was against it from the beginning

I heard on the radio this morning that a survey done in Europe found that over 70%
Of the refugees are male and they have a large % that are Isis...I can't remember the %... So if we bring in thousands of refugees we are are going to bring in Isis terrorists and that is stupid. But Obama is and will continue to be the fool as terrorist pore into our country. It's idiotic and IMO reason to arrest and try Obama for treason. His #1 duty as president is to protect the citizens, he has failed in that regard. There are already people being brought into New Orleans, an easy port to get "friends" in to by water on freighters as "workers" or bombs in freight boxes. Like citizen, I don't care if any Obama supporter likes it or not because he has put every one of us and our families at risk.

These fools are trying to convince even tonight in their debate, that climate change is more important...it's all about money....and Hillary said tonight we are not at war with radical Islam

They are delusional

Citizen was dead on in what he wrote.

[jazyd]

I have to respectfully disagree with you here, jazy. The French will talk tough, sit around and eat cheese and drink wine, talk tough some more, and then go back to doing exactly what they've been doing........taking in even more Muslims and allowing this situation to play out again.
French politicians are the ultimate cowards.

Normally I say you are correct but this time I think France is mad and will do something about it

[CitizenBBN]

In fairness jazy I think Hillary is right that she nor this Administration (which means the current government) are at war with radical Islam.

THe problem is they ARE very much at war with us, and say so every day.

So she's right, this isn't a war. A war requires the attacked country to fight back. This is capitulation.

[jazyd]

In fairness jazy I think Hillary is right that she nor this Administration (which means the current government) are at war with radical Islam.

THe problem is they ARE very much at war with us, and say so every day.

So she's right, this isn't a war. A war requires the attacked country to fight back. This is capitulation.

Oh I agree that "they" are not at war, they don't care, they are more worried that the ice cap has lost a 1/16 " of an inch vs killing evil. And that is what ticks me off. They will not lead, they have allowed Isis to grow leaps and bounds. They have allowed Isis to take ove a lot of territory. While they sit back and laugh

[CitizenBBN]

Yeah, I knew I was preaching to the choir on that issue. :)

Global warming suits their agenda for 'transforming America', whereas battling ISIS doesn't help them at all.

Of course I think Obama is more supportive of aspects of the Islamist movement than he'd care to ever admit, and I think that his overall sympathy for the religion blinds him to the fact that this is a despicable subversion of faith to achieve totalitarian ends. in Hillary's case I think it simply doesn't suit her goals to worry about it much, whereas global warming is a cornucopia of regulation and government expansion that suits their domestic agenda perfectly.

[dan_bgblue]

France Bombs ISIS (http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/15/middleeast/france-announces-raqqa-airstrikes-on-isis/index.html)

Don't stop

[CitizenBBN]

They called the bombing "massive", not sure 10 planes each dropping 2 bombs is "massive" by American standards, maybe by French standards. For fighters they'd be probably 500lb bombs. Make no mistake, even the 500lb bombs cause massive damage and will level a city block, but when we've done bombing runs in the past we've routinely dropped dozens or hundreds of those bombs in a cycle, like in the Gulf wars.

Not saying they shouldn't keep doing it, and they do have to be strategic attacks so it's not just about number of bombs, but 20 seems small to me compared to what I know we do in campaigns.

[ukblue]

Obama wants to give these people the ability to make nuclear weapons. Strange isn't it?

[suncat05]

I stand corrected this morning. Even though their response was limited, the French did respond, as they should have and as is their right to protect themselves.

[jazyd]

They called the bombing "massive", not sure 10 planes each dropping 2 bombs is "massive" by American standards, maybe by French standards. For fighters they'd be probably 500lb bombs. Make no mistake, even the 500lb bombs cause massive damage and will level a city block, but when we've done bombing runs in the past we've routinely dropped dozens or hundreds of those bombs in a cycle, like in the Gulf wars.

Not saying they shouldn't keep doing it, and they do have to be strategic attacks so it's not just about number of bombs, but 20 seems small to me compared to what I know we do in campaigns.


But that is 20 bombs on obe camp.. Hopefully they will continue as they go after other camps

[Catonahottinroof]

The question is "will they continue till completion?" I doubt it.....


I stand corrected this morning. Even though their response was limited, the French did respond, as they should have and as is their right to protect themselves.

[suncat05]

Well, I think we all hope that the French do continue their military operations against ISIS. But I agree, their armed response may end up being limited.
There will be other attacks against Western countries. The response to those will be interesting to see and evaluate.

[Catonahottinroof]

It's going t o happen here. It's only a matter of time and stupid politicians will still try to convince us that climate change is the real threat....

[suncat05]

It's going t o happen here. It's only a matter of time and stupid politicians will still try to convince us that climate change is the real threat....

That is why we vote. I dunno, I just get a sense that a good majority of the American people are tired of the political climate and want it to stop. The next general election may not be kind to long term career politicians.

[CitizenBBN]

But that is 20 bombs on obe camp.. Hopefully they will continue as they go after other camps

It sounds like they sustained multiple sorties, so I think they have dropped quite a bit of ordnance beyond what I saw reported. That's good.

[dan_bgblue]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/world/paris-attacks/index.html

Other world powers also responded. Britain stepped up security for Tuesday's soccer match between England and France, while the United States reacted to a newly released ISIS video threatening to "strike America in its stronghold, Washington."

CIA Director John Brennan said he would be surprised if the group doesn't have additional attacks in preparation.

"I would anticipate this is not the only operation they have in the pipeline," he said. "I do believe this is something we will have to deal with for quite some time."

[PedroDaGr8]

And you know what, frankly I don't give a damn. They gave it their BEST and killed a maximum 150 people. Is it sad those people died? yes, but this is in a city of millions. Their entire war is psychological because they entirely lack the ability to enact any REAL damage. One day of merciless bombing and we could kill more of them and inflict more damage than they can do in their entire existence, both from a population percentage AND a sheer numbers perspective. My bet is if you ran the numbers, you would be MORE likely to die from being stabbed in a bar fight than from a terrorist attack. I'm not afraid of bar fights and I'm not afraid of terrorists. Let them try their best as we repeatedly bomb them. The worst they will do is kill a few people here and there. If the media would treat it like something to just downplay then we would see their abilities drop even worse. They will try many heinous things but the fact is, THEY ARE WEAK. They have no true power, they have little legitimacy. They control a section of some of the most barren desert wasteland in a country comprised of barren desert wasteland. They are a big fish in a small pond and in time they will find out how truly big the real big fish are.

[suncat05]

Pedro, in a small sense you are right. They are small fish in a big pond. But they're more like pirahnas and not guppies. And yes, there certainly are much bigger fish in that same pond, but when the big fish don't keep the little agitating fish in line, the atmosphere in that pond becomes toxic to all.
And I agree with you also about them owning a small chunk of a very big desert. However, there is another analogy to be cited here: this very same scenario is what played out in the Pacific with the Japanese expansion in Manchuria in 1933, AND how Hitler started his European war in 1939.
No one paid.much attention to the Japanese, and the European powers and the U.S. tried to appease Hitler.
Appeasement does not work with bullies. If you give in to them they bully their victims more & more. How do you deal with a bully? You punch him square in the mouth as hard as you can, and when you get him on the ground you keep punching him until he surrenders. And in this case with this bully called ISIS, if he doesn't surrender or give up you kill him. Dead. And his women, children, cats, dogs, camels, goats, destroy his homes and any other property that he has.
Why? Because that is exactly what they intend to do to us, as they repeatedly tell us over and over again. So.........we kill them before they kill us. It's that simple.

[suncat05]

And I fully understand that you may not totally agree with my assessment of this situation, and Pedro, I respect that and your opinion.
But at the same time this is an enemy whose goal is world domination. He is teaching his women & his children that we are evil and that they should kill us or make us their slaves. He is teaching his children how to kill our children. THAT IS PURE EVIL! The same kind of evil that the world witnessed in 1933 & 1939. And we all know how that horror story worked out.
I cannot, nor will I, in good conscience allow that to happen to my children, or yours, or any other good American people. This kind of evil has to be met with a special kind of relentless and unforgiving force that it will understand and know that it cannot defeat. It's either that, or we all live under their terms or die.
Sorry, but that isn't happening to me & my children. Or you or yours. Or any other Americans.

[PedroDaGr8]

Pedro, in a small sense you are right. They are small fish in a big pond. But they're more like pirahnas and not guppies. And yes, there certainly are much bigger fish in that same pond, but when the big fish don't keep the little agitating fish in line, the atmosphere in that pond becomes toxic to all.
And I agree with you also about them owning a small chunk of a very big desert. However, there is another analogy to be cited here: this very same scenario is what played out in the Pacific with the Japanese expansion in Manchuria in 1933, AND how Hitler started his European war in 1939.
No one paid.much attention to the Japanese, and the European powers and the U.S. tried to appease Hitler.
Appeasement does not work with bullies. If you give in to them they bully their victims more & more. How do you deal with a bully? You punch him square in the mouth as hard as you can, and when you get him on the ground you keep punching him until he surrenders. And in this case with this bully called ISIS, if he doesn't surrender or give up you kill him. Dead. And his women, children, cats, dogs, camels, goats, destroy his homes and any other property that he has.
Why? Because that is exactly what they intend to do to us, as they repeatedly tell us over and over again. So.........we kill them before they kill us. It's that simple.

I am not advocating for appeasement and I apologize if it sounded that way. Your comparison with Japan fails due to scale, at least at this time, Japan had an army of over 6 million at its height, these guys are nowhere CLOSE to that. They have an army of tens to one hundred thousand fighters. That being said, I don't disagree with bombing the heck out of them as the enemy they are. My point was on managing our OWN responses to their actions. Do not react out of fear, do not react out of anger, react out of cold calculated and well thought out ruthlessness. My response was more on how WE as individuals should react and treat their actions every day. I see so many people reacting in fear. Afraid that it will hit where they live, begging for gov We should not clammer in fear for the government to save us. We should not give up essential civil liberties (like our right to privacy) to save us from ISIS. We should say **** you to ISISs scare tactics and treat them like the dogs they are. Deny them their most fundamental tool.

At the same time, to be honest France needs to implement plans to start integrating their huge slums of immigrants into French society. Part of the reason France has had it much worse than anyone else is that they basically bus their immigrants into slums outside the city and make them feel like they will never integrate into society. A good friend of mine is Austrian-Hatian, so she has dark skin and she said she never could live in France (despite speaking fluent Parisian french) because of how blatantly racist they are. She went to school there for two years and suffered racism daily from both classmates and teachers. Similarly, she worked there for about a year and left to work in Austria due to the blatant racism she faced. This type of environment creates a fertile breeding ground for ISIS to recruit and it has to stop.

This situation requires a multi-pronged approach and taking ANY single approach by itself will fail. We can't show weakness otherwise ISIS will exploit it and we will fail. At the same time, we need to implement policies to combat the things that lead to radicalism. Nothing is perfect and there will always be people who follow into the radicalist trap (whether it is white supremacist, islamofacist, IRA, nationalistic extremeist, etc.) but at the same time you can limit it to only the most crazy few and deal with them on your own. Sorry if this comes across as a bit meandering, sometimes it is hard for me to put down "on paper" my thoughts on this situation because it is such a complex and dynamic situation.

[dan_bgblue]

And you know what, frankly I don't give a damn. They gave it their BEST and killed a maximum 150 people.

Pedro, there is much truth in your thoughts but they have done much worse than their best being 150. They killed just shy of 3,000 innocent folks in just one event. That is still a very small percent of the population of this country, but I would feel very angry if a family member had lost their life in that event, or had I been a first responder and am fighting the lasting effects of the dust storm that followed.

Is it sad those people died? yes, but this is in a city of millions. Their entire war is psychological because they entirely lack the ability to enact any REAL damage.

That is true today, but I have no doubt whatsoever that if they could lay their hands on a nuclear warhead and the technical expertise to detonate it, that they would do it in the largest city in the US. They have the money to buy one, buy the expertise and method of delivery, and imo it is only a matter of time before they find someone that will sell both to them. It is as simple as sailing a container ship into New York harbor and giving the command to go boom. How about forgetting nuclear, and thinking about sabotaging an LNG tanker in the same harbor. I really do not think that would be sufficiently more difficult than dropping a Russian passenger plane out of the sky.

One day of merciless bombing and we could kill more of them and inflict more damage than they can do in their entire existence, both from a population percentage AND a sheer numbers perspective. My bet is if you ran the numbers, you would be MORE likely to die from being stabbed in a bar fight than from a terrorist attack. I'm not afraid of bar fights and I'm not afraid of terrorists. Let them try their best as we repeatedly bomb them. The worst they will do is kill a few people here and there. If the media would treat it like something to just downplay then we would see their abilities drop even worse. They will try many heinous things but the fact is, THEY ARE WEAK. They have no true power, they have little legitimacy.

They control a section of some of the most barren desert wasteland in a country comprised of barren desert wasteland.

Unfortunately that wasteland is sitting on enough oil to keep them going and buying all the weapons and supplies they need for way too long.


They are a big fish in a small pond and in time they will find out how truly big the real big fish are.

I agree with that statement, but I do not want it to take as long as the War to end all wars for them to find out. I want hem to find out today.



More people do not deserve to die at their hands

[CitizenBBN]

Pedro is right that this is about terror and not their ability to really inflict crippling casualties or take out a military or industrial complex.

But terror does in fact work, and we are as Dan said at risk of them getting their hands on a real weapon. As Dan said they have the money and infrastructure to make it happen with enough effort.

The real question is if they are truly fascists trying to build their empire or if they are just insane. If they are ruthless but sane then they will stick to these kinds of attacks. They build recruiting and make a huge splash but they will only get a certain level of response from the nation in question.

If they were to be insane and for example ship a nuclear bomb in a cargo container and set it off in the LA port or New York or wherever, then all bets would be off. Politically even Obama would be forced to lead the charge to annihilate them completely. Are they just using Islam as an excuse to drive their power or do they really believe they'll get 72 virgins?

[Doc]

Pedro is right that this is about terror and not their ability to really inflict crippling casualties or take out a military or industrial complex.

But terror does in fact work, and we are as Dan said at risk of them getting their hands on a real weapon. As Dan said they have the money and infrastructure to make it happen with enough effort.

The real question is if they are truly fascists trying to build their empire or if they are just insane. If they are ruthless but sane then they will stick to these kinds of attacks. They build recruiting and make a huge splash but they will only get a certain level of response from the nation in question.

If they were to be insane and for example ship a nuclear bomb in a cargo container and set it off in the LA port or New York or wherever, then all bets would be off. Politically even Obama would be forced to lead the charge to annihilate them completely. Are they just using Islam as an excuse to drive their power or do they really believe they'll get 72 virgins?


It didn't work on Madonna. She didn't let it force her to cancel her concert. No, she stood up and didn't let those terrorist force her to cancel her show this weekend. Kudo's to Madonna. I salute you :sFl_america2:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd8mLayceWs

[CitizenBBN]

lol Doc, she's certainly an inspiration.

[dan_bgblue]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/17/world/global-terror-report/index.html