If Bruce Jenner is really a woman, why isn't Rachel Dolezal really African-American?

[elicat]

One writer I read says, "No lobby, I guess."

[suncat05]

I read that story in USA Today. Strange.

[jazyd]

No big TV deal

[dan_bgblue]

Jenner thinks it is a woman and Dolzeal thinks she is black. I see no difference

[CitizenBBN]

A very strange case of "passing". I don't know if the NAACP folks who thus far have defended her are doing it for political expediency or not, but I can't imagine them being so supportive of a black person passing as white and being found out. In that case it would be seen as denying one's heritage and culture and being ashamed, but since she's white it seems to be OK that she is denying who she is and denying her heritage and culture.

An odd but obviously accepted and encouraged double standard.

[bigsky]

lying about it to get jobs and positions, very different.

Jenner wasnt head of NOW, came out.

This Montana chickie is a big liar

[Doc]

lying about it to get jobs and positions, very different.

Jenner wasnt head of NOW, came out.

This Montana chickie is a big liar

Maybe but it illustrates a basic problem with special privileges given to groups.

[KeithKSR]

Maybe but it illustrates a basic problem with special privileges given to groups.

I would be shocked if she didn't take advantage of her claimed minority status.

[KSRBEvans]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRDuQ-TYZhE

[CitizenBBN]

I would be shocked if she didn't take advantage of her claimed minority status.

She's found ways to play the race card from both sides over the years. Sued Howard for discrimination as a white woman, then made false claims of racism including a probably fake package she said came in the mail but has no cancellation stamp.

Short answer: She has a serious identity issue. One blurb I heard that I haven't seen reported much is that her parents adopted 4 african american children. My bet is she is very messed up by the message of her parents that made her feel somehow less worthy or deserving, and has gone from seeing slights as as white woman to passing as black and then playing up her plight to gain needed attention.

[Doc]

I have no problem with her being a white person working for an organization that promotes colored people (their term, not mine). If that is a cause she finds worthy, more power to her. I do have an issue with deceit and liars though.

What is funny though is the backlash she is getting while Elizabeth Warren's false claims of Native American heritage go somewhat ignored for a potential PRESIDENTIAL candidate. Next thing you know we will have false claims of candidates landing in war zones, dodging bullets.... oh, sorry, that's already happened too.

[UKHistory]

The distinctions Big Sky raises are significant ones. We as a society are coming to terms with transgender issues.

Rachael Dozeal, whatever her motivations or true feelings, seems to have applied for a position under false pretenses. She had reportedly been a good advocate in this capacity for her organization. But it seems to remind me more of the horrific C Thomas Howell movie about going to Harvard as an African American.

It is one thing to identify with a group or a group's causes. But giving a false or not entirely complete background about yourself is another issue.

Not sure how the NAACP could publicly get on her. She did a great job by all accounts. From a totally insensitive point of view, I am not sure how a predominantly African American organization feels about a biologically caucasian woman took away a job from a black man and clearly out performed him.


lying about it to get jobs and positions, very different.

Jenner wasnt head of NOW, came out.

This Montana chickie is a big liar

[suncat05]

The guy currently sitting in the Oval Office has the same issues.........he can't tell the truth either.

[Doc]

The guy currently sitting in the Oval Office has the same issues.........he can't tell the truth either.

Or his vice president... or his previous Sec of State and likely next democratic nomination for the President. Says a lot about the honesty in politics and the standards we hold because we keep electing these liars.

[bigsky]

http://chicksontheright.com/blog/item/29432-fake-black-dolezal-once-said-racist-marines-tried-to-kill-her-black-father

The chick is sick.

[elicat]

Now this obvious bigotry (http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/57504783"). Where are the social justice warriors on this issue?

[suncat05]

I agree with CBBN. This woman has some serious issues, but it is very obvious that she is a world class liar that finally got caught up in her own web of deceit.
The look on her face when she was asked if she was white and if her parents were white told me everything I need to know about her. She was just floored by the question, and you could see her squirming and trying to find a way to escape the situation. The look on her face was..........enlightening.
Now, I get that she "wants to be black". That's okay, be whatever you want to be. But somewhere along the way you're going to be challenged on it, and you'll either have to tell the truth, or lie. Those are the only 2 real choices. Anything else, trying to "spin the narrative" is just lying.
I would also like to know what she has said on job applications. What does she mark in the ethnicity box? What has she said in interviews?
Her birth parents are both white. They're the ones who called her out on this. Her brother did an interview on Fox and he said she is white. I would assume that her birth certificate says she is white.
So she can say she's black all she wants to, but the facts say she is white.
This woman has some issues. I hope she can get them worked out.
Oh, yeah, one other thing: if her "black father" had somebody try to kill him while he was in the Marines, it wouldn't have taken 3 attempts to get the deed done. Myself, the next question is: was he really in the Marines? I mean, we already know he is not her real father, so is she making up another lie to coincide with the first one? Is this another case of "stolen valor"?

[CitizenBBN]

http://chicksontheright.com/blog/item/29432-fake-black-dolezal-once-said-racist-marines-tried-to-kill-her-black-father

The chick is sick.

Yes she is. She has sued people for discrimination as a white woman, then claimed racism as a black woman, she's just got real mental health issues.

I can love aspects of Japanese culture (randomly picking one that isn't mine), embrace that culture, move to Japan, speak nothing but Japanese and conform to all their cultural norms. When I fill out the form asking my race I'm still white, no matter how much I might identify with and prefer Japanese culture. I do not "identify as Japanese" in any formal or legal sense even if I do "identify with Japanese culture" stronger than my own.

I'm white, i was born white, and there's nothing I can do to change it. i can embrace a different ethnic group and embrace their culture but the genetic markers that I came with are not altered. It's fine to embrace whatever culture you choose, but pretending you were born of a different ethnicity is not included in that embracing process.

[CitizenBBN]

suncat, she's marked both black and white depending on the time period, and claimed discrimination as both. She's a nut who has been exposed.

It happens, they're out there. They just usually aren't exposed on national TV.

[Darrell KSR]

suncat, she's marked both black and white depending on the time period, and claimed discrimination as both. She's a nut who has been exposed.

It happens, they're out there. They just usually aren't exposed on national TV.

It truly is as simple as this.

[KSRBEvans]

Is she really a nut? Or is she just a crook who got caught?

Has she been evaluated and diagnosed? (Serious question--I don't know.)

I think many times we assume when someone does something indefensible, it's because they're sick. Maybe she's just not nice.

[UKHistory]

Accusations of attempted murder are always serious, but especially serious with respect to the chain of command in the armed forces.

Knowing what we know about sexual assault, violent and criminal are committed by soldiers against soliders.

And I can recall a Sunday school teacher of mine discussing his experience in the Korean War where a second leutenant was intentionally killed by friendly fire to protect the squad from the LTs incompetence.

But the claim of three attempts on the man's life is something that warrants further investigation.

[bigsky]

I dont think "nut. I think pathological.

[suncat05]

Absolutely, History. Which prompted my query as to whether he was ever really in the USMC at all. I worked with Marine Corps MP's at Leavenworth, and those are some troops that are not likely to fail if their intention is to kill you. Or any other Marine I have ever met. Those guys are very efficient when it comes to dispatching America's enemies. I don't know what they do to those guys at Parris Island or out there in San Diego at the Basic Recruit Training Facilities, but when they come out of those places they are eat up with that $%&#!
So I have to wonder if this isn't just another one of her many lies?

You know what else I'd like to know? What did she do to make her natural parents turn on her like that? THAT is what I'd like to know...........

[bigsky]

The parents were sick of her lies.

[suncat05]

The parents were sick of her lies.

Hmmmm..........so this boil was obviously festering for a while, huh?

[bigsky]

There is something about her alienating her younger brother from her parents out there. Today she said there is no proof they are her biological parents, other than, her legal birth certificate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/16/rachel-dolezals-brother-author-joshua-dolezal-faces-trial-for-alleged-sexual-abuse-of-a-black-child/

[CitizenBBN]

Is she really a nut? Or is she just a crook who got caught?

Has she been evaluated and diagnosed? (Serious question--I don't know.)

I think many times we assume when someone does something indefensible, it's because they're sick. Maybe she's just not nice.

I can't say for sure, but given the pattern of this behavior I'm going to put my $10 on mentally ill, and as bigsky alluded to I'm betting something in the camp of psychopath or sociopath. That level of lying is usually beyond someone who is just trying to con people but is aware of the con, it's usually from someone who has convinced themselves of the lie.

I've run into some over the years, sure we all have. All just speculation of course, i've certainly run into some just flat out liars who were totally in control of themselves, they just lied and cheated and stole to get ahead. I'm betting hers is more in the wack-job area, but you never know.

[CitizenBBN]

There is something about her alienating her younger brother from her parents out there. Today she said there is no proof they are her biological parents, other than, her legal birth certificate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/16/rachel-dolezals-brother-author-joshua-dolezal-faces-trial-for-alleged-sexual-abuse-of-a-black-child/

I have a feeling that was one messed up household, and she's a symptom of it as well as a cause.

[bigsky]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/06/17/rachel-dolezal-misconduct/28878571/

She's also guilty of multiple ethics violations while serving on a city board. All too familiar stuff here from what I've observed from the "ends justify the means" crowd.