2 police officers killed [Archive] - Kentucky Sports Report

suncat05

05-10-2015, 08:10 AM

I have indeed, jazy. If you recall, we talked about this, IIRC, right after those 3 officers in Seattle were ambushed eating in that coffee shop, and that was a little while back.
This is what happens when 60's radicals are running the show, no sense of a moral compass about them, the only thing that matters is their "social justice" agenda, their socialist agenda. And yet when it's time they will want to use the police and the military to enforce their will on the public at large.
I keep telling you guys, something bad is getting ready to happen. We don't know what it will be, but we'll all know it when we see it.

Doc

05-10-2015, 11:54 AM

Hard to have any opinion without any story.

link to story (http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/10/us/mississippi-police-officers-shot-dead/)

best I can tell there is no link to anything other than just some dirtbag low life criminals and has nothing to do with any social justice. No reason to jump to any conclusions. I don't like it when the "mob" does it against the police so I won't like it when the tables are turned and every case of an officer getting shot is because somebody looking to even the score.

suncat05

05-10-2015, 01:38 PM

This all started with Obama's professor buddy getting arrested for failure to obey police orders when police responded to a prowler call. The officers found this guy acting in a suspicious manner, and when he refused to cooperate he was arrested. Then, when it becomes known that he is Obama's buddy, Obama said "the police acted stupidly". I remember stuff like that, even if my memory isn't quite as good as it used to be. And that led to the now world famous "beer summit", which IMHO was a damn joke that the arresting officer should have never been involved with.
Since then we have had attacks on LEO's, ambushes in Pittsburgh, Seattle, NYC, Los Angeles, Kentucky, and several others that escape me right now. Then the liberal rabble get involved with officer involved shootings and demand justice when all the facts aren't known, and start rioting and tearing up other people's property, while we have race baiters Sharpton, Jackson, and also Obama and AG Holder declaring the police are out to killl black men for no reason.
So I am going to have to respectfully disagree with some here about what's going on. I'm not buying into the liberal idea of "social justice" and everything that goes along with it when a Communist stooge like Obama says it.

Doc

05-10-2015, 04:32 PM

Police officers were killed in the line of duty long before the "beer summit". I suspect this incident in MS is just another such incident of 2 pieces of @@@@ scum bag criminals killing 2 LEOs simple because they were about to be arrested, nothing more. Would have happened had it occurred 2 years ago or 10 years ago.

I don't have much use for those who claim every police officer is racist because of the actions of a few. One racist cop gunning down an unarmed kid and then claiming he we going for his gun doesn't make all cops racist. Race baiters like Sharpton want you to believe that and feed off that but I don't believe it for a second. However it works both ways. Not every time a police officer getting shot is because the shooter is making some cry for social justice or he/she is doing it because they are making some misguided moral protest. Sometimes its because they are just lowlife criminal thugs trying to escape the legal system. Politics has nothing to do with it, self preservation does. And when one takes every police killing and makes it a "social justice" killing, you are no different than Al Sharpton taking every shooting an African American by an officer and turning it into a racial shooting by a cop. Its the same thing. Until there is some evidence that actually shows that this shooting was based on something more than they were shot for no other reason than they wanted to kill a police officer because they were police officers, then I'm not going to throw more fuel onto the fire.

CitizenBBN

05-10-2015, 04:59 PM

Doc it's true that police were being killed by these lowlifes long before Obama became President, but I will say it is also true that there is something to be said by our elected officials setting a standard of outrage and even retribution that helps keep even these lowlifes thinking twice about killing a cop.

So I see both sides there, but I will say that historically while we often perceive more police to be getting killed in the line of duty than ever, it's actually lower than more than one period in US history. Despite massive population growth both the period of the 1920s-30s and the 1970s had numerically far more LEOs being killed.

The data I found over all of US history doesn't distinguish the nature of the death, but other data on their site shows 40% or so are killed in auto fatalities. Given the fluctuations it's tough to know, but I see no big upward trend in LEO attacks from that data, but would like to see a more precise study.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html

But I do think we have a near total vacuum of national leadership on this issue right now, and I have to wonder if it's a coincidence the last time I saw a big spike in LEO deaths was the 70s, when we had another big vacuum of leadership and people in power who spent far more time questioning law enforcement than supporting it.

CitizenBBN

05-10-2015, 05:01 PM

I am glad they apparently found these people, and hope Mississippi has a capital punishment law for this crime. Horrible tragedy.

Doc

05-10-2015, 05:34 PM

There is ZERO evidence this incidence was politically motivated. The officers pulled the suspects over and the suspects apparently killed the officers in an attempt to escape so unless they intentionally got pulled over to lure the officers into the situation where they could shoot and kill them, I doubt this was a "social justice" shooting. Unlike Sharpton, Jackson, etc, I want something called EVIDENCE before I make a claim of something. I don't just pull stuff out of my butt then make accusations because it serves my agenda. I'll leave that for them because if I do that then I'm no better (or worse) than they are.

I certainly do not agree with the current lack of support for the law enforcement in many cities or on the national stage. I think its a down right shame. I worry quite a bit especially considering that my likely to be son in law (who currently lives under my roof) recently enrolled in the police academy. I see a 23 year old "kid" who is dedicating his life to something knowing that there is a good chance he may not get the support or respect he deserves. Scares the hell out of me and makes me wonder why would you do that? I also watch a bunch of dipshits in Washington do everything possible to undermine them rather than support them. To me its utterly stupid but then most of what they do is stupid in my book so it comes as no surprise. However policy is policy. Looking at the specifics of what happened in MS, I do not see anything that would support or even suggest anything other than 2 criminals trying to escape justice. Anybody got anything to suggest otherwise besides trends over the last decade? I mean something that actually is related to what happened IN MISSISSIPPI on that night?

CitizenBBN

05-10-2015, 05:59 PM

There is ZERO evidence this incidence was politically motivated.

I never said it was political in any way. I agreed with you from the outset.

But I do think that these other "social justice" events and the general lack of support for law enforcement can erode the "you better not shoot a cop" line in the sand that has historically existed. The goal is to create the image that harming a cop is so unacceptable and will be punished so severely it's better to just take the other punishment you have coming.

That's never been as true as we might hope, and the historic numbers support that it's never been close to an absolute, but I do think that our current leadership has only helped to erode that standard to the extent it exists.

I doubt these guys would be influenced by much of anything, but the gradual lowering of social standards of behavior, including respect for and compliance with LEOs, at the margin only makes such things more likely.

We have a real crime problem in this country, with a massive incarceration rate. Fortunately violent crime has been going down, and much of it is criminal on criminal violence due to the drug trade, but it would still be nice to see some real changes.

Doc

05-10-2015, 06:44 PM

I never said it was political in any way. I agreed with you from the outset.

But I do think that these other "social justice" events and the general lack of support for law enforcement can erode the "you better not shoot a cop" line in the sand that has historically existed. The goal is to create the image that harming a cop is so unacceptable and will be punished so severely it's better to just take the other punishment you have coming.

That's never been as true as we might hope, and the historic numbers support that it's never been close to an absolute, but I do think that our current leadership has only helped to erode that standard to the extent it exists.

I doubt these guys would be influenced by much of anything, but the gradual lowering of social standards of behavior, including respect for and compliance with LEOs, at the margin only makes such things more likely.

We have a real crime problem in this country, with a massive incarceration rate. Fortunately violent crime has been going down, and much of it is criminal on criminal violence due to the drug trade, but it would still be nice to see some real changes.

Suncat did, Jazy implied it.

Do I believe that what I see as a current lack of support for the police dept of this country by the administration and a general attitude of distrust by society has perpetuated and made cop shooting more likely in general? Probably. But I believe there are many other factors for that as well. Part of that is the prevalence of gun ownership, violence on TV and in movies, video games violence, a lack of respect in authority in general, how parents and teacher are allowed to discipline children, the justice system and punishment, poverty, single parent homes, etc..... But I do not believe that in this particular case, social justice was a factor. It was just to criminal trying to evade justice.

jazyd

05-10-2015, 09:35 PM

Doc

05-11-2015, 05:55 AM

DC, I do think it's open season on police officers. Cop just killed in NYC, shot in the head. 2 before that sitting in their car are ambushed and killed. These two officers were responding to a traffic stop, and are murdered. Would this have happened before ferguson, who knows

But I do think with the lack of respect for officers coming from DC we will see more killed. IMO, in the

Yes Miss has capital punishment

I agree with that but believe there is more to the killing of LEO than the "lack of respect" than is originating not so much in Washington as much as being fueled by race baiters like Sharpton. Yes, I believe that is a small factor but not a major one.

Being a police officer is a dangerous job, always has been and always will be. I don't believe it is any more dangerous now. In fact we have quite a ways to get back to the killings of the 20's, early 30's and the 70's (link (http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html)). This year the number is at 44 so far. (link) (https://www.odmp.org/search/year)*

* it should be noted that the stats from the two links to not match. I believe the second page included death that are not service related, such as heart attacks and 9/11 related illnesses.

Doc

05-11-2015, 08:08 AM

Darrell KSR

05-11-2015, 08:38 AM

They had the police chief on FOX this AM, or at least aired a recent interview. He was asked point blank if this had anything to do with the recent political unrest of Ferguson, NYC or Baltimore. His answer was an unquestionable no. A very definitive just some scumbags trying to evade arrest.

I think that's right.

Interesting link you provided in your other post. I think I'd take "gunfire" and "assault" and compare it to other years for a pretty legitimate comparison. The 9/11 illness obviously has nothing to do with the "open season on cops" argument, and neither does automobile accident, heart attack, motorcycle accident, struck by vehicle, or vehicle pursuit.

Taking those numbers--

2015 so far: 11
2014: 49
2013: 33 (Included 2 stabbed)
2012: 54 (Included 5 stabbed)

Skipping some years:

1995: 74 (did not include 8 terrorist attacks). 70 by gunfire, 4 assault.
1985: 84 (75 gunfire, 6 assault, 3 stabbed). Did not include 14 vehicular assault
1975: 150 (144 gunfire, 4 assault, 2 stabbed).

Fallen officers by gunfire has gone down. Fallen officers overall has gone down.

suncat05

05-11-2015, 08:42 AM

Doc, the pervasive attitude right now is that open season has been declared on LEO's. This comes not in direct quotes from that guy in the Oval Office right now, but by his subtle and sometimes not-too-subtle remarks about the police.
Criminals are a stupid lot, for the most part, but they're not so stupid as to not understand what they see and hear coming out of the Kenyan's mouth. He has made it very clear that he DOES NOT SUPPORT either LEO's or the military. He despises both and makes no secret of it.
And while our thugs in Mississippi may just be a couple of knotheads that got the drop on two LEO's and murdered them, I have to believe that in the back of their minds they've seen all of this nonsense going on and perhaps believed that they could get away with it and suffer no consequences.
Lack of national leadership and the feeling that there may not be any consequences is all part of the insidious web of this "social justice" movement. The bad guys receive that subtle "wink of the eye" that it's okay to kill LEO's, and while they are stupid they're not so stupid as to understand that subtle message that it's okay to kill police.

jazyd

05-11-2015, 09:27 AM

A subway employee in Laurel, Ms...about 20 miles from Hattiesburg...was fired for writing this in her Facebook and Instagram.

"Two police officers shot tonight in Hattiesburg". "GOT EM." In referencing Baltimore she wrote "No mercy."

Al Sharpton is part of Obama's inner circle and why? Obama declared the cop at Harvard stupid and wrong w/o knowing the facts. He and his Attn General decided the officer in a Ferguson was a murderer w/o coming right out and saying it. Went to the victims house, not to the officers. That who,e circus was a result of the actions by the administration. Two cops were killed in NYC because of that. Then Baltimore and those idiot politicians.

The left, Obama and his administration including race baiter Sharpton as part of their circle, another cop murdered in NYC, the thoughts of that Subway employee all help push the minds of trash like these thugs in Hattiesburg to do things like they did. IMO, in their minds all cops are bad and need to die.

And it was very early to say unrest had nothing to do with these murders except I think he was trying to keep those issues from boiling things over in Hattiesburg. Since Katrina and influx of citizens desirable or otherwise, that moved into the area and did not leave, has made the city of a Hattiesburg much rougher. Lots of shootings there. Several years ago several USM football players were shot, one paralyzed.

Maybe the administration has nothing to do with any of this, I just happen to believe it does

Doc

05-11-2015, 12:32 PM

I think that's right.

Interesting link you provided in your other post. I think I'd take "gunfire" and "assault" and compare it to other years for a pretty legitimate comparison. The 9/11 illness obviously has nothing to do with the "open season on cops" argument, and neither does automobile accident, heart attack, motorcycle accident, struck by vehicle, or vehicle pursuit.

Taking those numbers--

2015 so far: 11
2014: 49
2013: 33 (Included 2 stabbed)
2012: 54 (Included 5 stabbed)

Skipping some years:

1995: 74 (did not include 8 terrorist attacks). 70 by gunfire, 4 assault.
1985: 84 (75 gunfire, 6 assault, 3 stabbed). Did not include 14 vehicular assault
1975: 150 (144 gunfire, 4 assault, 2 stabbed).

Fallen officers by gunfire has gone down. Fallen officers overall has gone down.

Yes, that is what I was attempting to illustrate. While I believe there is a general failure to support the police departments in general based on a small percentage of bad policemen, I do not believe there is a large increased number in police officer killings. Clearly the two shot in their car in NYC was but these two in MS I believe were not.

jazyd

05-12-2015, 01:24 AM

From what I understand from two friends that live in the area both officers great young men

Black officer always wanted to be an officer, dad is military, raided right by a good family

White officer great family man, wife is a teacher, great family

This has hit this small city hard.

Two of those caught have been in lots of trouble, one has been arrested twice for selling coke. So why is he not already in jail?

Doc

05-12-2015, 11:47 AM

A subway employee in Laurel, Ms...about 20 miles from Hattiesburg...was fired for writing this in her Facebook and Instagram.

"Two police officers shot tonight in Hattiesburg". "GOT EM." In referencing Baltimore she wrote "No mercy."

This is what you are referring to -- link (http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?2456778-Another-Person-Learns-Free-Speech-Does-Not-Mean-No-Consequences)

Its gut wrenchingly stupid to witness the harm that is being done to the respect and therefore the effectiveness of the law enforcement of this nation by policies and the words that are coming out of the mouths of our "leaders" and not just those in Washington. The utter disrespect for those put their lives on the line on a daily basis because of the actions of a few is sickening. However there is a huge jump between posting some moronic things on social media and killing somebody. People will be disrespectful at the drop of a hat but killing somebody, not so much. Some dumb ass 20 something year old sandwich maker on Facebook being all gangsta with a "got 'em" means nothing

suncat05

05-12-2015, 12:05 PM

Doc, I believe we're both trying to get to the same place here with this, we're just travelling different roads.
This girl that used to work for Subway is a prime example of what I'm saying. Somewhere along the way it has become "acceptable", in some people's minds, to try to kill LEO'S. That idea comes from the top on down, either by actual language, whether direct or implied, or by indirect inferences, of which there have been many from this crew in the Oval Office or his henchmen in the DOJ like Holder, or others as well.
Criminal behavior has been very subtly suggested to be acceptable BY THEIR BEHAVIOR, as well as their lack of accountability so far. And also abetted by the failure of Congress to do a damn thing about any of it except to talk.
These four people that were arrested are a symptom of a much larger problem. But it's origins lie within the ideas spoken by the folks at the top, and all of their ilk.