Ferguson

[blueboss]

Protester when asked about an arm load of liquor from a looted store simply stated "this is justice"

Protestor when asked about why one of their local businesses was set on fire simply stated "seeking justice"

There seems to be a lot of "justice" being served in Ferguson

The emperor asked for calm and peaceful demonstrations and then said " we are a nation built on the rule of law"

Pretty interesting coming from a guy who just broke another one last week...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[elicat]

Protester when asked about an arm load of liquor from a looted store simply stated "this is justice"

Protestor when asked about why one of their local businesses was set on fire simply stated "seeking justice"


Can you cite a source for these quotes? I don't doubt you, I'd like to use them myself and just want to know where to link. Thanks!

[jazyd]

The ID King his right arm of the law helped make this all worse back in Aug along with the idiotic democrat Gov of Missouri when all 3 all but declared Wilson guilty. Did any of them go to Officer Wilson or his family?

There is a report that the Feds may bring charges against Wilson or investigate him. If a grand jury that included 3 blacks, came to the conclusion no reason for indictment then the Feds need to keep their lawless AG out of it.

We have a so called president that acts as an Emperor who ignores the laws of this land, so why should his voters feel they should obey the laws? He has set the precedents, they are just following his lead. They are just like Brown, thugs

QUOTE=blueboss;224380]Protester when asked about an arm load of liquor from a looted store simply stated "this is justice"

Protestor when asked about why one of their local businesses was set on fire simply stated "seeking justice"

There seems to be a lot of "justice" being served in Ferguson

The emperor asked for calm and peaceful demonstrations and then said " we are a nation built on the rule of law"

Pretty interesting coming from a guy who just broke another one last week...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

[suncat05]

The Mayor of Ferguson, the Governor of Missouri, and anyone else who was involved in the decision making process screwed the pooch when they agreed to these bs "rules of engagement" prior to the announcement of the Grand Jury's decision. They abdicated their authority and basically told the rioters to go ahead and burn down & tear up anything that you want.
They said they would tolerate a certain amount of lawlessness. So the people of Ferguson are being punished because some low life POS attempted to kill a police officer that was just doing the job he signed up for.
BS by community organizers like Obama have led us to this point in our nation's history.

[bigsky]

What if a Republican president announced that we would t collect cap gains taxes anymore? just another executive action?

[UKHistory]

Civil rights violations are incredibly hard to prove. With Holder leaving office, I really don't think Wilson will be charged. This is especially true with the grand jury unwilling to say the killing of Michael Brown should go to trial.

I wish we had video to better understand what occurred. That doesn't necessarily allow us to be in Wilson's shoes and understand completely his point of view or for that matter Michael Brown's thinking either. And some video can mislead the audience too. Nothing is perfect. I wish we could see and hear how it went down.

Most law enforcement officers do not have to draw their weapon and fewer have had to kill anyone in the line of duty. I am praying hard that Darren Wilson was in the right; that he made a decision not out of panic or anger but as an appropriate response. God knows his heart; I don't. Michael Brown was unarmed. He was big powerful, maybe a thug and maybe a jerk. But he was also he was unarmed American citizen.

The aftermath is an even greater tragedy. Police operating as soldiers against American citizens; protesters coming from around the country and not all with honorable intentions.

Looting and stealing is not justice. I don't advocate for this. But if people wanted justice and felt violence the appropriate action, then occupy the courthouse. Take it by force and engage law enforcement. If an honest to goodness revolution would bring about change then orchestrate one.

Burning down businesses and destroying your community is not the answer. This is especially true for minority owned businesses in the community of the people who consider themsevles disenfranchised. That is not smart and does nothing but foster fear and hatred.


The ID King his right arm of the law helped make this all worse back in Aug along with the idiotic democrat Gov of Missouri when all 3 all but declared Wilson guilty. Did any of them go to Officer Wilson or his family?

There is a report that the Feds may bring charges against Wilson or investigate him. If a grand jury that included 3 blacks, came to the conclusion no reason for indictment then the Feds need to keep their lawless AG out of it.

We have a so called president that acts as an Emperor who ignores the laws of this land, so why should his voters feel they should obey the laws? He has set the precedents, they are just following his lead. They are just like Brown, thugs

QUOTE=blueboss;224380]Protester when asked about an arm load of liquor from a looted store simply stated "this is justice"

Protestor when asked about why one of their local businesses was set on fire simply stated "seeking justice"

There seems to be a lot of "justice" being served in Ferguson

The emperor asked for calm and peaceful demonstrations and then said " we are a nation built on the rule of law"

Pretty interesting coming from a guy who just broke another one last week...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

[blueboss]

Can you cite a source for these quotes? I don't doubt you, I'd like to use them myself and just want to know where to link. Thanks!

I was watching back and forth between FOX and CNN last night around 12:00 am, and it was on live, I think it may have been FOX for the liquor store statement. In fact the guy that screamed that to the reporter even threw in a few MF's and MFer which made it clear as a bell, he then knocked the camera off of the guys shoulder and they lost the feed.

The store on fire statement wasn't long after that I think on the same channel but I'm not sure.

Bouncing back and fourth between the two channels is my latest fun thing to do because of the complete polar opposite reporting of the same stories...especially during something that is politically fueled.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CitizenBBN]

Just a convenient excuse to loot and steal, nothing more. Sure some are genuinely concerned about "justice" of one form or another, (in quotes bc what constitutes justice varies a lot), but the vast majority out there doing these things are just criminals spurred on by the chance to steal and the psychology of the mob.

We see the same thing when teams win sports titles. Is that a scream for justice, or just another albeit less charged excuse to go engage in anarchy and maybe get a nice tv?

[cattails]

The Mayor of Ferguson, the Governor of Missouri, and anyone else who was involved in the decision making process screwed the pooch when they agreed to these bs "rules of engagement" prior to the announcement of the Grand Jury's decision. They abdicated their authority and basically told the rioters to go ahead and burn down & tear up anything that you want.
They said they would tolerate a certain amount of lawlessness. So the people of Ferguson are being punished because some low life POS attempted to kill a police officer that was just doing the job he signed up for.
BS by community organizers like Obama have led us to this point in our nation's history.

I say if you are trying to burn down a building or break into a store a few live rounds on target might get their attention. Hell with the bean bags, put their ass on the ground, might change a few things, black or white.

[Doc]

Were I a business owner in Ferguson, I'd have been sitting in front of my store locked and loaded and you know my stance on guns. If the police or national guard are not there to protect my property then I will be

[bigsky]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/11/armed-guards-with-ar-15s-save-north-st-louis-strip-mall-from-looters/

This is 2A in action.

[Doc]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/11/armed-guards-with-ar-15s-save-north-st-louis-strip-mall-from-looters/

This is 2A in action.

Only thing I would have done different is have a lawn chair so my legs wouldn't have gotten tired from standing.

[suncat05]

Only thing I would have done different is have a lawn chair so my legs wouldn't have gotten tired from standing.

Or a sandbag emplacement with rifles protruding from it. And in this situation, dealing with stupid people like these rioters, the implied threat cannot be any more visible than that. This is my place, and I am protecting it, and you ain't taking my stuff.

Cover & Concealment 101.

[CGWildcat]

This info was sent SF Bay area wide yesterday afternoon for all the military folks to be aware and safe.

Oakland area calls to riot for yesterday/last night;

1. Tuesday, 25Nov, 1600
Location: 14th/Broadway, Oakland
Additional: "From the Stop Mass Incarceration Network, Bay Area chapter: Ferguson Grand Jury Decision may be Today or Tomorrow. According to sources familiar with a Wednesday conference call that included key elected officials, the St. Louis County grand jury’s decision in the case of Ferguson, Mo., police Officer Darren Wilson is expected to be announced publicly Monday. And sources close to the investigation state that they are not expecting Wilson to be indicted.
BUT, WHENEVER IT COMES DOWN...DAY OF and DAY AFTER, JOIN US AT 14TH & BROADWAY, OSCAR GRANT CORNER, OAKLAND, 4 pm and on beyond NO BUSINESS AS USUAL! ON CAMPUSES AND IN THE STREETS! ANYTHING LESS MEANS WE WILL LET THEM GET AWAY WITH COLD BLOODED MURDER... after murder...after murder...after murder...after murder NO! NO MORE!

2. Tuesday, 25Nov, 1700
Location: 7th/Broadway, Oakland Police Department Headquarters, downtown Oakland.
Additional: Next Day After Ferguson Demonstrate! At the Oakland Police Department if the Grand Jury With or Without an indictment of Darren Wilson in the Murder of Mike Brown. The Oakland Uhuru Movement unites with the call put out by the Black is Back Coalition Social Justice, Peace and Reparations to engage in mass protest demanding justice for Mike Brown and the African with or without an indictment! Bakari Olatunji, leader of the local Uhuru Movement says, “We stand up for Michael Brown, calling on police and military to withdraw from black neighborhoods across the county, including the Oakland police department. We also demand the release of all prisoners arrested during the Ferguson rebellions.”

3. Tuesday, 25Nov, 1900
Location: 14th/Broadway, Oakland
Additional: Organizer posted “regroup at 14th and Broadway at 7PM. Uprise until we get what we want!!!” WE INVITE ALL SUPPORTERS FOR JUSTICE FOR MIKE BROWN AND ALL WHO OPPOSE RACIST POLICE ATTACKS TO MOBILIZE IN SOLIDARITY WITH FERGUSON, MO. The Ferguson Grand Jury announced Monday, November 24th that they will not sentence Darren Wilson for the murder of Mike Brown. This is a complete outrage! We must continue to regroup and remobilize to demand the proper indictment of Darren Wilson and jail the killer cops! Enough is enough! No business as usual!

[suncat05]

Community organizing at its best. And this is what our "Dear Leader" used to do in another life. Now he's sitting in our White House encouraging this criminal behavior.

There has to be some precident existing that could be used to impeach his highness. But I seriuosly doubt that many in Congress have the intestinal fortitude that is required to take those steps.

[CitizenBBN]

Only thing I would have done different is have a lawn chair so my legs wouldn't have gotten tired from standing.

Get a few guys up on the roof system.

Meanwhile, a Bosnian immigrant in a nearby neighborhood was beaten to death by minority teens with hammers, and the media won't even report it nor will the city investigate it as a hate crime, despite racial tensions in the community.

The indictment I can't believe wasn't made was the choke hold case in New York. now that to me warrants serious scrutiny. not violence, but scrutiny.

This was just an excuse to act out in a mob, burn stuff and get a nicer TV from the store for free.

[suncat05]

When I saw that video of the NYPD officer putting that guy in that chokehold, I was astounded. That particular action has been banned in pretty much every law enforcement agency that I know of since the late 70's-early 80's.
They had him outnumbered, I think like 5-6 to 1. Back away from him, if he won't comply with the lawful orders given him, then TASER him, use pepper spray if need be, but do not go hands on until you know you have control. Get him down, place hand restraints on him and get him transported to the nearest jail facility. It's that simple.
Another thing that comes into play here is that apparently the guy was selling cigarettes on the sidewalk, like a sidewalk vendor. That's okay, except it may be illegal in NYC to do so in that manner. You know, the city needs its money from tax revenues, and if the guy is bootlegging cigarettes then the city is being denied additional tax revenues. I get that, every city has rules & regulations for those kinds of vendors. And the city wants its tax revenues.
But the guy didn't deserve to die over bootleg cigarettes. Those officers involved should have handled the situation much better than they did. If he resists, you have to go through the different stages of the Use-of-Force Matrix, starting at the lowest and moving up as necessary. And when he stops resisting, then the use of force MUST CEASE. Period.
At the least that officer violated NYPD Use of Force policy & procedure. I believe he should have been indicted. He used unnecessary force and caused a wrongful death. JMHO. Yours may differ.

[Doc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1ka4oKu1jo

Now I watch this and I don't see "racist". I see police over aggression. I have no idea why there was no indictment on this one.

Suncat, I believe he wasn't selling Cigarettes at this time. I believe it was a couple months earlier that he was. This incident was from a fight which apparently he broke up. The linked video mentions the cigarette incident happening a few months ago.

[suncat05]

My next question is: did he hurt somebody when he broke up that fight? I'm still at a loss as to why he was approached and the situation was handled like it was?
Whatever happened prior to this, this man died needlessly, and the officer used excessive force in subduing him. That is what I see every time I see this video.
Law enforcement officers go through extensive, sometimes mentally exhaustive traing in how to properly communicate with the public. From my perspective, they jumped the guy way too soon. You talk to the guy until you see he's not going to comply, and then it's time to escalate the Use-of-Force matrix. They escalated too soon, and with too much force via that chokehold. Now, I'm just going on what I've seen in that short video. But based on what I saw, there were other means that could have been used to subdue him without choking him out. That's life & death there, and this situation shouldn't have escalated to that point. Again, I'm just goingby what I saw in the short video.

[Doc]

I totally agree. Its stuff like this that pisses folks off about the police. There was NO NEED for this guy to die. He was causing no threat to the officers or anybody else yet the big bad police had to show him who was in charge. Cite the guy with a ticket. IMO even tazering him or pepper spray would have been overstepping, but certainly choking or at least taking him down was over the top.

[suncat05]

It all depends on what happened prior to what happened in the video. That seems to be the information that is missing at this point, at least to me. But we agree on this one 100%.
There had to have been alternate methods available to them if he needed to be arrested.

I would like to know "the whole story".

[Doc]

Me as well. However without knowing the entire story, I do know the ending. Seeing the final chapters of the story, I can't see any situation where the previous chapters would justify the final ones. The portion of the video prior to the take down do not show an individual being combative or threatening in any manner. I don't have an issue with officers using force to protect themselves or the public. There was no threat so why the need to physically take the man down? We are not a nation where this type of thing should be tolerated by those in charge. That is what makes us different.

[jazyd]

Like suncat I wouldlike to know the whole story.

I saw this morning where my not favorite congressman, King of NY, said the local businesses had complained about the man disturbing the peace and running off business with his attitude. Don't know if true or not

And I have heard various police officers, retired or not, call in to talk shows and say the officer acted as taught, that you always take down the person from behind. And some say the hold was legal and others say it was not.

Also, for the race baiters out there, supposed the officer in charge was a sargeant that is a black female so she oversaw the whole thing.

And many have said, suncat you can confirm or deny this, that often times the criminal cries out loud that the police are choking them, breaking their arm, harming them, whatever it takes to get them to let go. So was it crying wolf in the police minds?

He also, again supposedly, had priors and was out on bail or bond.

And none of us know what the grand jury knows as far as evidence.

I do agree with someone I heard this morning, it is not a criminal offense but could be a civil one, and I heard the family has already filed a $70 million dollar lawsuit.

I do know a man died, that should not have. It 'appeared' to be excessive force imo. For something as little as he was being arrested for, if he said he couldn't breath I would think the best thing would be to let up some, especially since there were several officers there to help. He had no weapon that we know of.

But imo, it was not racism at all, just too much force that resulted in a tragic death.

[jazyd]

One of the shames that will come from this, imo, is that some police forces will teach their officers to hold back, show too much restraint and police will die because of it.

[KeithKSR]

When I saw that video of the NYPD officer putting that guy in that chokehold, I was astounded. That particular action has been banned in pretty much every law enforcement agency that I know of since the late 70's-early 80's.
They had him outnumbered, I think like 5-6 to 1. Back away from him, if he won't comply with the lawful orders given him, then TASER him, use pepper spray if need be, but do not go hands on until you know you have control. Get him down, place hand restraints on him and get him transported to the nearest jail facility. It's that simple.
Another thing that comes into play here is that apparently the guy was selling cigarettes on the sidewalk, like a sidewalk vendor. That's okay, except it may be illegal in NYC to do so in that manner. You know, the city needs its money from tax revenues, and if the guy is bootlegging cigarettes then the city is being denied additional tax revenues. I get that, every city has rules & regulations for those kinds of vendors. And the city wants its tax revenues.
But the guy didn't deserve to die over bootleg cigarettes. Those officers involved should have handled the situation much better than they did. If he resists, you have to go through the different stages of the Use-of-Force Matrix, starting at the lowest and moving up as necessary. And when he stops resisting, then the use of force MUST CEASE. Period.
At the least that officer violated NYPD Use of Force policy & procedure. I believe he should have been indicted. He used unnecessary force and caused a wrongful death. JMHO. Yours may differ.

Simple fact is the guy knew he was breaking the law, then resisted arrest. He was not a victim, but was a facilitator in his own death.

No one forced him to break the law, no one forced him to resist arrest. People need to be held responsible for their own actions.

[KeithKSR]

The guy stated he couldn't breathe, which is a physiological impossibility. If you can't breathe, you can't speak.

A zoomed in version of the hold shows the officer had his arm across the top of the guy's chest, not on his throat. His other arm was in place to support the guy's head as he was taken down. Per an interview by an instructor at the academy where these guys are trained it was a textbook take down.

I can see a sympathetic view when things happen to innocent people, but when criminals resist arrest they have only themselves to blame for the consequences.

[KeithKSR]

I totally agree. Its stuff like this that pisses folks off about the police. There was NO NEED for this guy to die. He was causing no threat to the officers or anybody else yet the big bad police had to show him who was in charge. Cite the guy with a ticket. IMO even tazering him or pepper spray would have been overstepping, but certainly choking or at least taking him down was over the top.

Ironically it was the mayor's office that issued the orders to crack down on untaxed and loose cigarettes. Robbing stores, resisting arrest are crimes liberals complain about laws being enforced over, but the sale of untaxed cigarettes is something they see as an attack on society.

[bigsky]

It is the consequence of the nanny state.

[Doc]

The guy stated he couldn't breathe, which is a physiological impossibility. If you can't breathe, you can't speak.

A zoomed in version of the hold shows the officer had his arm across the top of the guy's chest, not on his throat. His other arm was in place to support the guy's head as he was taken down. Per an interview by an instructor at the academy where these guys are trained it was a textbook take down.

I can see a sympathetic view when things happen to innocent people, but when criminals resist arrest they have only themselves to blame for the consequences.

Speech is a result of EXPIRATION or air moving outward. Breathing is INSPIRATION or air moving inward. The two are not exclusive. Also the individual was an asthmatic. Asthmatic often suffer from dyspnea without being choked. The VICTIM may have been suffering a stress induced asthma attack rather than being choked. In that case he also would have been able to talk yet have a very difficult time beathing since the issue would be constriction of this airways in his lungs.

Additionally, the consequences need to be proportional to the crime. Are you suggesting the guy was faking it because his death would suggest otherwise. I mean him saying he could not breath clearly was occurring since he died, right? Also, are you suggesting that the degree of his resistance to arrest, which IMO isn't there since I didn't see any attempt to arrest or any arrest able offense occur but for the sake of argument lets say there was, was enough to justify his death? The police would love that! Next guy that resists, just blow his head off! "Hey, he resisted. His fault". I got no pbm with deadly force if a somebody has a gun or goes for a cops gun or is being violent etc. that wasn't happening here. The police were the ones who made the first physical move. They are the trained individuals. There job is to protect and serve. That is all the individuals of the community, even Mr Garner.

[suncat05]

As I said before, there are other ways to get control of the guy, and I just think their tactics were all wrong.

Or maybe that's just the way those guys in "New Yawk" do business.

In any event, that guy Garner died needlessly. JMHO.

[jazyd]

The guy stated he couldn't breathe, which is a physiological impossibility. If you can't breathe, you can't speak.

A zoomed in version of the hold shows the officer had his arm across the top of the guy's chest, not on his throat. His other arm was in place to support the guy's head as he was taken down. Per an interview by an instructor at the academy where these guys are trained it was a textbook take down.

I can see a sympathetic view when things happen to innocent people, but when criminals resist arrest they have only themselves to blame for the consequences.

Actually Keith you are wrong according to a doctor on TV that is a forensic specialist, he said you can talk while also having the breathing problem.

As Doc said, he could have been having an asthma attack.

I really dont believe it was racist, there sarg in charge was a black female, nor do I think he intended to hurt the guy. It was an accident that went terribly wrong because the officers didn't use common sense.

The dead man, just like Brown, is not just an innocent angel either, having been arrested 31 times for various crimes including assault and having spent time in jail.

The mayor wanted his police officers to be tax collectors in this case which is stupid. And the local merchants complained about him causing problems with their customer base. He evidently was looking for a way to make money w/o working at a job, nor paying any taxes what so ever even though he knew what he was doing was illegal.

as sky said, the result of the nanny state.

And I fear that this will cause police depts to change their tactics, and put their lives at risk as a result.

[Doc]

One other thing, unrelated to the Mr Garner's death...

this was a result of the sale of "untaxed cigarettes". Somebody correct me if you have heard more but I believe what he did was purchase packs of cigarettes from a retailer, hence paid the taxes on the cigs then sold them individually. In other words the problem wasn't the cigarettes weren't taxed, they weren't DOUBLE taxed.

Had he done this in 1773 dressed as an Indian then he would have been called a patriot!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Boston_Tea_Party_w.jpg/300px-Boston_Tea_Party_w.jpg

[UKHistory]

Asmatha is a horrible breathing problem that can result in death and most people are ill informed about how serious it is. A homeless person arrested in DC complained of asmatha related breathing problems. The police ignored it and he died.

People who are having an asmatha attack appear "healthy" otherwise and don't get the attention or sympathy needed.


Actually Keith you are wrong according to a doctor on TV that is a forensic specialist, he said you can talk while also having the breathing problem.

As Doc said, he could have been having an asthma attack.

I really dont believe it was racist, there sarg in charge was a black female, nor do I think he intended to hurt the guy. It was an accident that went terribly wrong because the officers didn't use common sense.

The dead man, just like Brown, is not just an innocent angel either, having been arrested 31 times for various crimes including assault and having spent time in jail.

The mayor wanted his police officers to be tax collectors in this case which is stupid. And the local merchants complained about him causing problems with their customer base. He evidently was looking for a way to make money w/o working at a job, nor paying any taxes what so ever even though he knew what he was doing was illegal.

as sky said, the result of the nanny state.

And I fear that this will cause police depts to change their tactics, and put their lives at risk as a result.

[jazyd]

One other thing, unrelated to the Mr Garner's death...

this was a result of the sale of "untaxed cigarettes". Somebody correct me if you have heard more but I believe what he did was purchase packs of cigarettes from a retailer, hence paid the taxes on the cigs then sold them individually. In other words the problem wasn't the cigarettes weren't taxed, they weren't DOUBLE taxed.

Had he done this in 1773 dressed as an Indian then he would have been called a patriot!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Boston_Tea_Party_w.jpg/300px-Boston_Tea_Party_w.jpg

Kinda like when you die and your children inherit your money which has already been taxed and then they pay a death tax

[jazyd]

Asmatha is a horrible breathing problem that can result in death and most people are ill informed about how serious it is. A homeless person arrested in DC complained of asmatha related breathing problems. The police ignored it and he died.

People who are having an asmatha attack appear "healthy" otherwise and don't get the attention or sympathy needed.

I agree, its a terrible disease. I just don't understand why in this case didn't the police let up on their restraint, which they didn't need to do anyway since there were 6 of them with guns, and let the guy breath and see what was wrong with him. He wasn't going anywhere, didn't have any visible weapons, and he was a petty criminal at best at that point.
And it will probably result in other cops being killed in the line of duty for fear of being prosecuted or sued.

[KeithKSR]

Actually Keith you are wrong according to a doctor on TV that is a forensic specialist, he said you can talk while also having the breathing problem.

As Doc said, he could have been having an asthma attack.

I really dont believe it was racist, there sarg in charge was a black female, nor do I think he intended to hurt the guy. It was an accident that went terribly wrong because the officers didn't use common sense.

The dead man, just like Brown, is not just an innocent angel either, having been arrested 31 times for various crimes including assault and having spent time in jail.

The mayor wanted his police officers to be tax collectors in this case which is stupid. And the local merchants complained about him causing problems with their customer base. He evidently was looking for a way to make money w/o working at a job, nor paying any taxes what so ever even though he knew what he was doing was illegal.

as sky said, the result of the nanny state.

And I fear that this will cause police depts to change their tactics, and put their lives at risk as a result.

Respiratory problems and "can't breathe" are two different things. Yet, the primary issue is the guy isn't going to be able to speak loudly enough to be heard on video with even an issue with breathing.

Asthmatics who are having an attack, or others gasping for air, can barely be heard, if they can speak at all. I've had asthmatics play for me who have to use an inhaler in order to dilate bronchial airways in order to be able to speak above a whisper.

What I find absurd is how selling the cigarettes is a felonious crime deserving of arrest. The same libs outraged over the death of Garner are the same group that made it a felony and the same NYC libs who have instructed police to perform these arrests for violations.

There was no reason to resist arrest, especially if you have the physical ailments Garner did.

[CitizenBBN]

As I said before, there are other ways to get control of the guy, and I just think their tactics were all wrong.

Or maybe that's just the way those guys in "New Yawk" do business.

In any event, that guy Garner died needlessly. JMHO.

That's the long and short of it.

if this was the safest procedure for the police and they were in danger I could understand, but this is a technique LEOs have rejected as being unsafe for everyone involved. It's very dangerous to the person being restrained, and there are better ways to stop people that better protect the LEO as well. Tasers and stun guns for sure, but even dropping him with a baton to the leg would likely be safer to everyone. Don't forget pepper spray.

I could take stepping away from procedure if that was the only choice, but that doesn't seem the case here. If this arrest required the choke hold it would be OK for about any resisting situation, and that seems over the top. This guy was big and was resisting, but not violently so.

there are questions about whether this caused the death, maybe he dies anyway b/c he did have health issues and just the arrest process or the Taser etc. could have ended the same way, but using a technique banned for many years precisely b/c of these risks makes it very serious IMO even if it didn't directly kill him then and there.

[KeithKSR]

That's the long and short of it.

if this was the safest procedure for the police and they were in danger I could understand, but this is a technique LEOs have rejected as being unsafe for everyone involved. It's very dangerous to the person being restrained, and there are better ways to stop people that better protect the LEO as well. Tasers and stun guns for sure, but even dropping him with a baton to the leg would likely be safer to everyone. Don't forget pepper spray.

I could take stepping away from procedure if that was the only choice, but that doesn't seem the case here. If this arrest required the choke hold it would be OK for about any resisting situation, and that seems over the top. This guy was big and was resisting, but not violently so.

there are questions about whether this caused the death, maybe he dies anyway b/c he did have health issues and just the arrest process or the Taser etc. could have ended the same way, but using a technique banned for many years precisely b/c of these risks makes it very serious IMO even if it didn't directly kill him then and there.

I've seen several different shots of the takedown, in some it looks like a choke hold, in others it doesn't. Some NY LEOs have said it was a textbook academy takedown, others say it was a banned chokehold.

I've seen numerous reports that a chokehold precipitated Garner's death, but no quotes to confirm it. The quote I find in numerous places is 'the compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police,'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713576/Official-Police-chokehold-caused-NYC-mans-death.html

The original hold was released after Garner first yelled he could not breathe. If the hold caused the breathing issue it wouldn't it have ceased to be an issue once released?

Things are never as clear as they may appear.