View Full Version : Whaat is your take on the missing Malaysian commercial airline?
UKHistory
03-14-2014, 11:43 AM
It is a bizarre story and scary one. Planes and ships can go missing. The world is a big place and oceans swallow things up pretty well.
But the thought that this plane could have taken by terrorrists who potentially have flown the commercial jet to a secured location to basically turn it into a nuclear or chemical missile to be flown to a major city is pretty damn scary.
At this point that is what I am thinking?
What about my fellow Cats out there?
suncat05
03-14-2014, 12:46 PM
Something for sure isn't right. Not sure what, though.
To me there's are.only two real possibilities: 1)the plane has crashed into the side of a mountain and the debris has not been found yet, or 2)the plane has been hijacked and is on the ground somewhere in a very remote jungle setting. For what purpose we do not yet know, but if that is what happened, I am pretty sure we won't like whatever the bad guys intentions are.
Aside from those two things, I just have to feel like if it had crashed into the ocean somewhere that any debris would have been discovered by now.
Or it was the aliens in the flying saucer that abducted them............:evilgrin0007:
CitizenBBN
03-14-2014, 01:08 PM
I don't dismiss the terrorist purpose of taking the plane for some other use, but I have to think there are easier ways to get one. They can't just take off with this one and pretend it just reappeared and taking one from Malaysia seems hard when you can get a suitable plane from nations or organizations sympathetic to your cause. The Russian Mafia will let you fly one home for the right price. I just keep thinking it's easier to steal one from some other place than a commercial airliner in flight.
But maybe not, maybe they tried, didn't have the money for one, said hey let's just take one. Maybe this was in fact the lower cost option.
My guess is sabotage or hijacking for some reason b/c if it was a "normal" failure you'd have expected some kind of radio message. "Engine 1 is out! Mayday!" something. That they haven't found it in the vastness of the oceans doesn't surprise me a whole lot, but they did have a radar track on it so you'd think they could narrow it down, but we've searched for ships before where we knew their path and never found them too.
I can't imagine it's coincidence two people were on that plane on stolen passports, whether they have been somehow cleared of being terrorists or not.
IMO they tried or succeeded in hijacking it and either landed it somewhere for reasons I don't understand or it crashed as part of the attempt or on purpose.
Covert op? Terrorists? Pretty tinfoil hat stuff, but the alternative is the coincidence of people with stolen passports on a plane that just happens to disappear right at the edge of one tracking system and just entering another.
I doubt stolen passports are all that common even in that part of the world, but maybe they are.
suncat05
03-14-2014, 03:23 PM
If it is a hijacking, and they successfully pulled it off, then the passengers are already dead, and something really bad is in the works. Which means very detailed planning and the ability(financially, logistically, and otherwise)to do something this big and actually pull it off.
Which means somebody, somewhere wants to ratchet up the stakes in the game.
If it was a hijacking.
MickintheHam
03-17-2014, 09:26 AM
The plane is in Kazakhstan. Passengers are hostages. Two teens seeking asylum in Europe are now back in Iran. I don't want to think what has happened to them.
suncat05
03-17-2014, 12:44 PM
The plane is in Kazakhstan. Passengers are hostages. Two teens seeking asylum in Europe are now back in Iran. I don't want to think what has happened to them.
Mick? Where did you hear or see this? Or is this just conjecture on your part? I've been following this pretty closely and not heard this until now.
On another front, news has come out that the captain may be some kind of political activist, and that he is upset over the jailing of a friend of his by Malaysian courts.
That bit of news, even if relevant, does not remotely tell me what I need to know. Okay, he's ticked off that his pal is in jail, but that in no way even remotely translates into hijacking a huge airplane with approximately 270 or so people on it, and on the fly. This event was planned, has to be. Even an experienced pilot just doesn't get into the cockpit and decides to hijack a plane just off the cuff. That doesn't happen. And not all by his lonesome either. If he did hijack that plane he wasn't working alone, and therefore there had to be a plan in place to do so. Which makes it a conspiracy to commit a hijacking.
There is so much about this situation that just doesn't ring true to me, especially in light of the fact that the navies of at least 12 nations, air assets and satellite imagery have failed to uncover any wreckage anywhere.
I am still of the opinion that this plane has safely landed somewhere and is being hidden. And whoever did this has some as yet unknown use for that plane. And all those passengers? I hate to say this, but they're probably all dead. I hope not, but if their presence is not needed or necessary to whoever did this, then why expend resources keeping them around? But that's just me thinking out loud.
blueboss
03-17-2014, 07:27 PM
My question is this, why has no one thought it necessary to have some type of homing device installed in the "black boxes" which would send off a constant ping to a satellite? When I first heard the story I thought it will just take a day or two to dial in on the ping, and then the challenge would be recovery from the bottom of the ocean to determine the circumstances surrounding the downing.
CitizenBBN
03-17-2014, 09:32 PM
My question is this, why has no one thought it necessary to have some type of homing device installed in the "black boxes" which would send off a constant ping to a satellite? When I first heard the story I thought it will just take a day or two to dial in on the ping, and then the challenge would be recovery from the bottom of the ocean to determine the circumstances surrounding the downing.
From the little I've read they rely on the signal connection from the plane, but apparently you can turn it off from the cockpit. Bad idea. There should be more than this handshake ping that doesn't tell them much for sure. Seems crazy there isn't. Either add something or make it where the other can't be turned off without a bunch of hoops.
CatinIL
03-18-2014, 02:27 PM
3272
PedroDaGr8
03-18-2014, 03:47 PM
I read an interesting article from a pilot on board saying he suspects it was a fire on-board. He said the direction they turned aimed directly to the nearest airport suitable for landing. If it was an electrical dire they likely pulled the buses to try and contain it. Which explains the transport going off.
From that point, they might have been overcome quickly by smoke. Where the autopilot would have carried them on out to the Indian ocean until they ran out of gas.
The "good night" comment he said was unremarkable because it's actual standard parlance when switching control from one air traffic control to another.
EDIT: Here's the link:
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/
By far the most logical reasoning I have seen so far. He addresses most theories, explains some of what happened. For example:
As for the reports of altitude fluctuations, given that this was not transponder-generated data but primary radar at maybe 200 miles, the azimuth readings can be affected by a lot of atmospherics and I would not have high confidence in this being totally reliable. But let’s accept for a minute that the pilot may have ascended to 45,000 feet in a last-ditch effort to quell a fire by seeking the lowest level of oxygen. That is an acceptable scenario. At 45,000 feet, it would be tough to keep this aircraft stable, as the flight envelope is very narrow and loss of control in a stall is entirely possible. The aircraft is at the top of its operational ceiling. The reported rapid rates of descent could have been generated by a stall, followed by a recovery at 25,000 feet. The pilot may even have been diving to extinguish flames.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
blueboss
03-18-2014, 06:46 PM
^^^^I'll buy that, plus it takes the "it had to be a crime" that rightfully so we always as a society jump to. For once it would be nice just to be a freak accident and not some sinister plot.
dan_bgblue
03-19-2014, 11:01 PM
Pedro, the pilot's scenario is very plausible. It does however fail to address the fact that the transponder AND the ACARS were shut off, and there was no mayday message. I do not believe there is a cockpit team in the world that shuts off the transponder, and the ACARS would not have time to send a mayday if there were fire/smoke on board.
If the plane went down in a crash event it may be years and years before it is found if it went down in the Indian Ocean basin. If it is in operating condition and sitting on dry land, we will all know before we want to what happens next.
suncat05
03-20-2014, 07:13 AM
Now something has been found way off the Australian coast almost straight across from Perth. The expert that was on the news show said that the current location of this item puts it just at the end of one of the two "arcs" of travel.
This part of the ocean is almost always rough as far as waves and swells, and the water is brutally cold. And this expert also said that this part of the Pacific is among some of the very deepest parts of the ocean.
Catmandrew
03-20-2014, 08:30 AM
They should turn the pilot's name in to the Student Loan People. Guaran-damn-tee they find that plane.
suncat05
03-20-2014, 09:10 AM
They should turn the pilot's name in to the Student Loan People. Guaran-damn-tee they find that plane.
Or the IRS for income tax evasion.
Darrell KSR
03-20-2014, 11:21 AM
Find my phone app? Surely somebody on the plane had an iPhone.
via mobile app
Anybody recall the name of that movie from years ago where some model, perhaps an actress who was one of Charlie's Angel's, played a stewardess, where they travelled from the future and hijacked planes, replaced the passengers with dead folks from the future and then returned the passengers to the futures so they could live, leaving the dead future people in the past? Any idea on the name of that movie??
Darrell KSR
03-20-2014, 12:49 PM
Anybody recall the name of that movie from year ago where some model, perhaps an actress who was one of Charlie's Angel's, played a stewardess, where they travelled from the future and hijacked planes, replaced the passengers with dead folks from the future and then returned the passengers to the futures so they could live, leaving the dead future people in the past? Any idea on the name of that movie??
Are you sure that wasn't something you dreamed up after a night of heavy drinking?
via mobile app
Google is your friend
Millennium (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097883/?ref_=nv_sr_1)
There is your answer
Are you sure that wasn't something you dreamed up after a night of heavy drinking?
via mobile app
Even I couldn't come up with that after heavy drinking. here is a better synopsis..link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_%28film%29)
Darrell KSR
03-20-2014, 01:00 PM
LOL--oh, my. You're right, that is a crazy plot. Mystery, intrigue, seduction, death, danger and destruction.
I have to rent it now.
LOL--oh, my. You're right, that is a crazy plot. Mystery, intrigue, seduction, death, danger and destruction.
I have to rent it now.
but IIRC no full frontal nudity
suncat05
03-20-2014, 02:45 PM
Did anybody in the movie join the "mile high club"? I've not seen this movie.
CitizenBBN
03-20-2014, 07:02 PM
LOL--oh, my. You're right, that is a crazy plot. Mystery, intrigue, seduction, death, danger and destruction.
I have to rent it now.
Scary part is I know that movie well, it's in my B class list but I've watched it 5-6 times probably. That disturbs me but it bothers me more that I'm thinking like Doc. Next comes the funky underwear I suppose.
It's a very odd movie. I'll withhold review till you see it though.
CitizenBBN
03-20-2014, 07:03 PM
but IIRC no full frontal nudity
That's why it's in my B list. Either it has to have a great sci fi concept or really good nudity.
Did anybody in the movie join the "mile high club"? I've not seen this movie.
Clark Griswald joined that on his way to Vegas, and maybe in "weekend at Bernie's" since they were all dead
KeithKSR
03-20-2014, 09:05 PM
Pedro, the pilot's scenario is very plausible. It does however fail to address the fact that the transponder AND the ACARS were shut off, and there was no mayday message. I do not believe there is a cockpit team in the world that shuts off the transponder, and the ACARS would not have time to send a mayday if there were fire/smoke on board.
If the plane went down in a crash event it may be years and years before it is found if it went down in the Indian Ocean basin. If it is in operating condition and sitting on dry land, we will all know before we want to what happens next.
The revised timeline doesn't fit the fire theory. The transponder was turned off and the autopilot's new waypoints were plotted and implemented prior to the last transmission from the plane.
The biggest fear I see is that it is in Iran or elsewhere and will be loaded with a nuke and sent elsewhere. Why steal a plane for this? Deniability.
blueboss
03-20-2014, 09:42 PM
Now something has been found way off the Australian coast almost straight across from Perth. The expert that was on the news show said that the current location of this item puts it just at the end of one of the two "arcs" of travel.
This part of the ocean is almost always rough as far as waves and swells, and the water is brutally cold. And this expert also said that this part of the Pacific is among some of the very deepest parts of the ocean.
One was a pod of dolphins and the other was a freighter or something....oh wait, what you reference is something different from what I heard this morning. They did halt searching because of rough seas/conditions
suncat05
03-21-2014, 07:56 AM
Could the captain have lost his mind and just decided to commit suicide, and in turn, murder all of those people? I have a very hard time believing that, but when you're dealing with another human being anything is possible.
I also remember hearing something in the news about his family having left their house the day before this flight, but do not remember hearing anything as to whether the authorities know of their current whereabouts.
Anyone heard any further information on the pilot's family?
suncat05
03-21-2014, 09:37 AM
This would fit the usual terrorist M.O. of having one committed jihadist kill himself in order to kill as many innocent nearby victims as possible. After all, an airplane full of passengers is a captive audience, as it were.
And how could you possibly intervene in a scenario like that? There's almost zero possibility that anyone could do anything about it.
dan_bgblue
03-21-2014, 12:24 PM
Interesting thoughts on what "could" could have happened.
Daily Beast (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/19/how-flight-370-could-have-become-a-zombie.html)
blueboss
03-24-2014, 09:10 PM
Could the captain have lost his mind and just decided to commit suicide, and in turn, murder all of those people? I have a very hard time believing that, but when you're dealing with another human being anything is possible.
I also remember hearing something in the news about his family having left their house the day before this flight, but do not remember hearing anything as to whether the authorities know of their current whereabouts.
Anyone heard any further information on the pilot's family?
That's a long time to contemplate your fate, IIRC most suicides are knee jerk and quick and the longer people think about what they are doing the more the courage/cowardliness to finish fades...
suncat05
03-26-2014, 09:14 AM
I understand that thought. But something went wrong, and I suspect that if no one is able to retrieve the black box we may never know. Myself, I have a difficult time believing that this was not intentionally done. Too much that we do know for sure suggests to me that something wasn't right in the cockpit during the flight, and leading up to the flight.
blueboss
03-26-2014, 07:58 PM
Still curious about the two individuals with the fake passports....that just seems to crazy to be coincidence, but like you I fear the black boxes might not ever be found. The average depth of the Indian Ocean is 12,700 feet with its deepest being 27,000+ and contains 20% of the planets water, the Indian Ocean is also home to the planets largest waves. Since we're over two weeks behind on the trail it will be next to impossible to find the actual impact area.
If this plane is in pieces in the seas around Australia, why not just ask those whack-o folks from the "SEA SHEPPARD" from Whale Wars to find it. Just tell them fuel leaking from the engines is killing whales and I'm sure those loons will find any debris within a couple hours. Heck, they can find two japananse sushi chefs in a rowboat with a harpoon in the middle of the antartic ocean in a blizzard ice storm so finding airliner debris field should be a piece of cake for them.
I haven't seen a more inept search effort since Dr. Rene Belloq search for the Well of the Lost Souls in Raiders of the Lost Ark
Serious question:
Does anybody really believe that nobody in one of the US intelligence agencies does not know where this plane ended up, that nobody knows where it or the fragments of it are?
suncat05
04-07-2014, 03:51 PM
Somebody in some intelligence agency somewhere probably has a very good idea where this plane is. Whether we ever find out may be another story. Kinda like Benghazi, or Fast-n-Furious, or............
kingcat
04-12-2014, 11:16 AM
Two words...
..Haliburton
:)
I know one thing, Tom Cruise could find that sucker!
blueboss
04-14-2014, 09:02 PM
Serious question:
Does anybody really believe that nobody in one of the US intelligence agencies does not know where this plane ended up, that nobody knows where it or the fragments of it are?
Lots of somebodies know but they can't say where it is because then they would have to explain how they know where it is...
suncat05
04-15-2014, 11:47 AM
Lots of somebodies know but they can't say where it is because then they would have to explain how they know where it is...
Oh yeah, "somebody" knows, but they are not going to say anything in public. Or share what information they have with a 'neutral' or opposing government.
I still believe that plane is intact and on the ground somewhere, hidden from the view of intelligence gathering satellites. For what purpose? Who knows! But all of the passengers and non-essential crew are long dead. If that plane has crashed into the Indian Ocean, somebody somewhere would have found debris and said something.
I also believe the Malaysian government knows way more than they are saying. Or they're inept beyond all sensibilities. Or both. But at this point I am just not buying that an airplane that big with all of the most modern technology just crashed into the ocean and did not break into a million pieces, nor have any bodies been found either. Just not buying it.
Lots of somebodies know but they can't say where it is because then they would have to explain how they know where it is...
Absolutely.
blueboss
04-15-2014, 08:03 PM
Can't figure the angle on why nobody is fessing up. If our intelligence community knows and aren't saying, what could be the motivation to risk the outfall when circumstances come to light? If it was shot down by another government what repercussions of publicizing what happened could be so bad that that there has to be a cover up.
If it's on the ground and the passengers and crew were summarily executed what could be gained/prevented from not going after the perps?
If it's just a bungle job where they blew the whole search and rescue, it would be easier just to admit it, do a recovery job and call it a day.
Just can't figure it...
UKHistory
04-23-2014, 11:20 AM
If we can locate it, we might not want to publicize it. In fact we may want to promote the idea that we think the plane went down.
The sharp westward turn says to me (arm chair slueth) the plane was being flown with ulterior motives and I kind of think the plane landed somewhere. For what purpose, I don't know. But I can certainly see a scenario where we could be looking for the plane and might not ever say anything about it for many reasons.
[QUOTE=If it's on the ground and the passengers and crew were summarily executed what could be gained/prevented from not going after the perps?
[/QUOTE]
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