Will/Estate plan - need advice

[Crazy4Blue]

I currently do not have a Will/Estate plan set up, but want to do so. Any advice on how to proceed with this? Are the online services or off the shelf software good enough or do I need a Lawyer? If so, why? Any "things to consider" when writing a Will? Thanks in advance!

[KSRBEvans]

If only there were some attorneys on the board who could advise you.... ;)

IMHO the online/off-the-shelf software is not good for most folks for a couple of reasons:

1. Executing a will is a bigger deal than just getting a document notarized. In most states it involves a ceremony with 2 disintested witnesses attesting not only to seeing you sign the document but also your legal capacity to make the will. It may also contain a "self-proving affidavit" which will usually be signed by the person making the will, the witnesses and a notary. All that has to be done in a certain way (which an attorney will insure happens). If you're doing that yourself, maybe it'll be done correctly--maybe it won't.

2. A good attorney will not just draft a will that complies with your wishes (e.g., who you want to get your stuff, who you want to be your executor, etc.) but will add value by discussing a complete plan. That could include:
--How to set up your "non-probate" assets (e.g., life insurance, investments, etc.) for distribution;
--Whether you should make certain accounts payable on death and how to do that;
--Whether assets being left for minor children should be held in trust for them and if so, under what circumstances;
--Guardianship nominations to care for your minor children after your death;
--Any tax issues you should be aware of and possibly plan for.

So IMHO seeing an attorney who does a thorough job for you on estate planning is money well-spent, even if you don't have a sizable amount of assets.

[Darrell KSR]

As usual, BEvans gave great advice, and I can't add to it. So I'll tell a story instead.

Years ago I was with a large firm with a big bank as one of its main clients. I was low man on the totem pole in the business and estate department, and as such, I had the honor of doing some free personal work for the officers of the bank.

One of them called me one day and said that he had been told by our managing partner that I would be happy to assist him with a complimentary estate plan. Of course, I said that was correct, and he told me that he already had a Will, and that he had prepared it himself from a computer program designed for estate planning.

I asked him to fax it to me in advance of our meeting so I could get familiar with names, general dispositive wishes, etc. and he did.

We made an appointment and he came over to discuss it, and asked me if I had a chance to look over his Will. I told him that I had, and that I was pleased to let him know that under Alabama law, he had a perfectly valid Will that would hold up in court and do exactly as he wished.

He was very content and sat up a little taller in his chair.

I then said, "Now, you did want to disinherit your wife and leave $1 to your daughter, correct?"

Yes, that's what the Will did, to his great astonishment and concern. No, that was not his intent. It also failed to waive the requirements of bond and inventory (requiring a purchase from an insurance company of a fidelity bond, and requiring additional court hearings, meaning more lawyer fees), and screwed up a couple of other pretty significant things under Alabama law.

But it was perfectly valid.

He had the original Will there, and wrote "REVOKED" in big bold letters across the face of it so that there would be no mistake that it was no longer valid before we fixed it.

Wills aren't hard. But neither is a tonsillectomy. I don't think I'd remove my own tonsils, either, though.

[Crazy4Blue]

Wow, very good advice to think about. Thank you both for taking time to respond. Looks like I'll be going to Attorney route.

[blueboss]

Now to the 800 lb gorilla sitting at the conference table...How much should one expect to pay for an attorney to get someone's will/estate together? I'm guessing the more stuff and dough you have to give away the more it will probably cost.

[Darrell KSR]

What's the cost of a tonsillectomy? $3000 to $7000 or so. Ask your lawyer in advance of services for the cost. They should tell you before you have any obligation.

Cost can vary, depending on exact services to be performed. Might have to do with a lot of assets, including non-probate assets. Or it could have to do with personal wishes, minor children, contingent trusts, special needs, guardians and conservators, etc.

Do you need power of attorney, health care proxies, advance directives? Any asset protection planning or revocable trusts? Work with life insurance, irrevocable trusts, gift giving programs, or Medicaid qualifying trusts? Need any assets to be transferred during lifetime to assist in the estate plan?

The tonsillectomy example was just to show that the same service can vary, but certainly, depending on the exact services required, it can also vary significantly.

But a basic Will should not be too expensive. It's just not a complex matter. I hesitate to give a range even, because of the various factors.

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[CitizenBBN]

More to the point, whats' the cost of not getting one and then having to treat the infection too? lol.


I'm as by a DIY guy as you'll ever find, and I craft my own basic business law type documents in many cases (not all), and I strongly recommend getting a quality estate attorney for this task.

Darrell and BEvans have laid it out well but just to bolster their legal perspective with my non-legal one, estate law is an area that to me seems particularly esoteric, or potentially so. There are specific state laws that vary from state to state that are very particular on both form and function. Places where if you don't say things the right way then what you think you are stating won't happen and state law will override your wishes.

My strongest advice is to GET ONE, b/c if you don't the process is governed totally by state law, and you may find your estate going to the government or an ex-spouse or God knows who. Second is to get one that is correctly done, and while an off the shelf contract for a purchase order may work fine, this is an area of law with too many specifics and legal forms to observe for that to be a safe choice.

This is one area where they proprieties need to be observed. As an auctioneer I've seen far too many estates where a little bit of planning would have saved a lot of grief or money or both.

[blueboss]

Good to know, and it's not the tonsillectomy, I would be more worried of the cost of a proctologist after not knowing what to expect going into an attorneys office to have a will/estate set up...Not all these guys are as forth coming as my brother in blue on this forum.

[Darrell KSR]

Good to know, and it's not the tonsillectomy, I would be more worried of the cost of a proctologist after not knowing what to expect going into an attorneys office to have a will/estate set up...Not all these guys are as forth coming as my brother in blue on this forum.

There may be exceptions, but I would not do business with a lawyer if he wouldn't talk to me without obligation first*. And I wouldn't do business with a lawyer who would quote a fee over the phone. I'm not saying it's wrong, but I just wouldn't want it. I would think it was too cookie cutter.

I used to quote a fee, or a range, based on a brief telephone call. But discovered too frequently after a meeting that what they described in the phone call wasn't what they needed. Also found occasionally they over sold themselves things they didn't need.

In my view, a lawyer who is competent and honest should meet, see what the client needs, then quote a fee. No obligation unless agreed.



*Edit....when I say that I wouldn't do business with a lawyer who wouldn't talk with me without obligation, I don't mean I expect free legal advice. But for something like an estate plan, a lawyer can spend some time talking with the client about what he desires and logistics of his personal, financial and legal situations and understand what needs to be done, then quote a fee for services to be rendered. To the extent legal advice is sought and given during that meeting, a reasonable fee, generally related to the prevailing hourly rate is earned.


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