Coastie - you may get a carry permit afterall

[CitizenBBN]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/13/calif-concealed-weapon-law-tossed-by-fed-appeals-court/

9th Circuit, based in San Fran btw, voted 2-1 that the Cali standard of having to prove "need" for a concealed carry permit is unconstitutional. This is in direct conflict with the 3rd, which just ruled New Jersey's need stipulation was constitutional.

FWIW 19 states including most of those we live in on this board have joined to file a brief with SCOTUS urging they take up the New Jersey case and overturn the 3rd's decision. Pro gun states are worried that if "need" is constitutional theoretically the federal government could try to pass a national law requiring need and override state autonomy in these matters. That and they're pro gun politicians in pro gun states.

I think SCOTUS may pick this one up. THey often punt on hot issues, but with Heller and Macdonald already under their belts, firmly establishing the 2nd amendment is about the individual and his right to self defense, I can see them taking this on even though so far they've limited cases to having guns in the home.

Right now as Coastie can testify, in the blue counties it's nearly impossible to get a carry permit, whereas in red counties you can often (though not always) get one. In Jersey it's a statewide issue. The New Jersey case is also a great one for them to take up b/c the person suing the state has a job reloading and repairing ATM machines who was denied a permit b/c he couldn't prove need under Jersey law. He has to carry large amounts of cash and could easily be stalked or targeted, so he's got a sympathetic case for need already, that's an ideal case for them to take up b/c by ruling in his favor they don't look unreasonable.

Ought to be very interesting.

[Doc]

Prove need? what does that mean? Does it mean if somebody mugs me then I can go get a carry permit? What if I want a gun before I get mugged? Granted, I don't keep up on such things because I have no desire to carry a gun, which is my choice.... however doesn't saying you have to show a need basically defeat the purpose?

[CitizenBBN]

TO borrow your word Doc, eggsactly.

The 9th saw it for what it was, a contrivance that allows local officials to deny pretty much anyone a permit. Of course Nancy Pelosi got one, as I'm sure do the bodyguards who protect the Hollywood elite, but the average Joe is SOL.

That's why the Jersey case is the right one to have pursued. An average guy who has a job that carries large amounts of cash and operates at odd hours. I'd have preferred a woman who works 3rd shift and has to commute on foot a fair amount for maximum sympathy, but that is exactly who are being denied permits with these "you have a right but you have to still prove you need it" laws.

If something is a Constitutional right there is no requirement to prove need. I dont' have to prove I need a gun or a set of golf clubs or anything else. You have the right to pursue happiness and life and liberty as you see fit, and the burden is on the state to prove you should be limited in some way to protect the public safety.

That's why a felon can't have a gun. That's not denying the 2nd Amendment, b/c committing a felony has abrogated any number of your "rights" under the Social Contract. No right is absolute, so you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater, but it doesn't mean you have to get permission to say what you think either. Restricting someone based on objective criteria, before the law, is one thing, there can be limits, but to reverse presumption and have law abiding people with no proof they are in any way dangerous have to justify need turns the whole concept of this country on its head. We are born with those rights, it's not our burden to prove we have them.

Their own decisions will be their undoing, I hope. They have turned down people with what most would consider good cause, like women who work late shifts. A LOT of the women who have taken my class here have done so b/c they worry about leaving their late shift and walking through the parking lots or when they have to travel alone.

It's up to the individual to determine what they need to pursue their own self defense and happiness, not the Nanny State.

[CGWildcat]

:happy0030: