OT: Coke Commercial with " AMERICA the beautiful". Thoughts?

[Carolinawildcats]

Just Curious....I think they got accomplished what they wanted too....that's for sure.

Peace

Richard (CW)

[dan_bgblue]

I missed it CW. What was the message other than selling another bottle of their products?

[Carolinawildcats]

http://allenbwest.com/2014/02/coca-cola-ad-super-bowl-americans-brand-hm/

[Doc]

IMO West and his readers missed the point. The point wasn't about American citizenship. It was about America the beautiful and the diversity that makes this country great. To me it says that regardless of where you are FROM, you can see the beauty of this country. While West prefaces the video with the Teddy Roosevelt quote about citizens should be versed in English (which I agree with), he goes way beyond the scope and sentiment of the commercial. I liked the commercial.

If you did not see it, the commercial is a singing of America the Beautiful in a multitude of languages (3-4 second quips in spanish, hebrew, arabic, etc....)

[kingcat]

I enjoyed it and must admit, it did make me stop and think. I believe that was a good thing however.

Finally, I felt that the accuracy of interpretation is all that should matter and wondered just how it was received by those understanding the different languages.

Then i thought of freddy fender..hehe

[cattails]

http://allenbwest.com/2014/02/coca-cola-ad-super-bowl-americans-brand-hm/

Put me in the group that agrees with Teddy.

[MTcatfan]

When everyone starts speaking Native American then I think you can complain without being a hypocrite. I liked the commercial, and I think it fine this country is diverse and filled with people that have a different first or second language. I did not realize America was the Borg and we must assimilate to live here.

[cattails]

When everyone starts speaking Native American then I think you can complain without being a hypocrite. I liked the commercial, and I think it fine this country is diverse and filled with people that have a different first or second language. I did not realize America was the Borg and we must assimilate to live here.

That is total BS, there were so many Native American languages, we defeated the Native Americans, just like we did the English, the strong survive. Keep your native language, but learn to speak English.................period.

[MTcatfan]

Wow, I am amazed that knew there were multiple Native languages. So yesssa massa sir we will learn English because you say sir.



I assume you must be one of these folks:

http://deadspin.com/dumb-people-mad-at-multilingual-america-the-beautiful-1514567876ou

[ajp40505]

That is total BS, there were so many Native American languages, we defeated the Native Americans, just like we did the English, the strong survive. Keep your native language, but learn to speak English.................period.

Let's celebrate our Native American heritage and remember that there are an incredible number of words in our culture that came from those who were here first - rivers, towns, cities, animals. Folks who call Paducah home owe the name to an Indian chief from long ago. That's just one of thousands of examples.

[Darrell KSR]

I think it's cool that such a great song can be sung in many different languages. It is beautiful in all of them, and letting the world know clearly in so many languages advertises America to the world. Just because someone sings it in a different language also doesn't mean they don't know this one.

via mobile app

[Bakert]

I think it's cool that such a great song can be sung in many different languages. It is beautiful in all of them, and letting the world know clearly in so many languages advertises America to the world. Just because someone sings it in a different language also doesn't mean they don't know this one.

via mobile app

Thank you, Darrell. And Doc, and Kingcat, and MTcatfan, and ajp40505.

I will leave you with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib-Qiyklq-Q

[jgraul]

I thought the commercial was brilliant and awesome. The funny thing about the English language thing is that the US has no official language, not even English.

[VirginiaCat]

I agree with this. I really think our strength is our diversity....But the key is most immigrants have come to the USA wanting to be an American..not a foreigner that lives in the USA...and that is what our immigration law must address.


I enjoyed it and must admit, it did make me stop and think. I believe that was a good thing however.

Finally, I felt that the accuracy of interpretation is all that should matter and wondered just how it was received by those understanding the different languages.

Then i thought of freddy fender..hehe

[WoodstockCat]

I don't think that people singing America the Beautiful in different languages is a problem by itself. I would have expected it was what you would have heard all around Ellis Island for several years as New York became a melting pot of many former cultures. My issue is that at some point, your allegiance, your desire for excellence should be sold out to the things that have made America unique and different from wherever you came from.
Opportunity over outcomes and where you begin doesn't determine where you can end up.

[KeithKSR]

There really are no native Americans. There are just those who migrated here earlier than others, but their are no peoples who are native to this continent.

[cattails]

Wow, I am amazed that knew there were multiple Native languages. So yesssa massa sir we will learn English because you say sir.



I assume you must be one of these folks:

http://deadspin.com/dumb-people-mad-at-multilingual-america-the-beautiful-1514567876ou


Went to the site "404/tage not found" and "yesssa massa sir" is degrading to black folks of which I am not, but still. Not because I say so, because it has been a long standing tradition, we have a language, learn to speak it. My grandson speaks French, has since he was about 10 years old, I have no problem with that, in fact I enjoy it. I have friends that speak multiple languages but they speak English. It is our countries language, like I said I am with Teddy, learn the language. Going back to speaking the Native language is really a stretch, I hope you can at least admit that?? :533:

[cattails]

Let's celebrate our Native American heritage and remember that there are an incredible number of words in our culture that came from those who were here first - rivers, towns, cities, animals. Folks who call Paducah home owe the name to an Indian chief from long ago. That's just one of thousands of examples.

I have no problem with that at all.

[kingcat]

I don't know that there is a "right way" to receive, or perceive it. Some things just make one think and no one thinks alike.

Different backgrounds and experiences lead to diversity of thought. The problem would be people not being sensitive to that.

[cattails]

I think it's cool that such a great song can be sung in many different languages. It is beautiful in all of them, and letting the world know clearly in so many languages advertises America to the world. Just because someone sings it in a different language also doesn't mean they don't know this one.

via mobile app


Have no problem with the song Darrell, many of the dead in WWI and WWII were immigrants from other countries and some were native Americans. I would suggest they learned the language, became Americans (the melting pot of the world) and died Americans. They didn't ask us to learn their language. Press 1 for English, press 2 for Spanish is just wrong IMHO.

[cattails]

Thank you, Darrell. And Doc, and Kingcat, and MTcatfan, and ajp40505.

I will leave you with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib-Qiyklq-Q


And the song was in English???

[cattails]

I agree with this. I really think our strength is our diversity....But the key is most immigrants have come to the USA wanting to be an American..not a foreigner that lives in the USA...and that is what our immigration law must address.

The others should be deported, you live here you are either American or you leave. One Nation Under God.

[MTcatfan]

Went to the site "404/tage not found" and "yesssa massa sir" is degrading to black folks of which I am not, but still. Not because I say so, because it has been a long standing tradition, we have a language, learn to speak it. My grandson speaks French, has since he was about 10 years old, I have no problem with that, in fact I enjoy it. I have friends that speak multiple languages but they speak English. It is our countries language, like I said I am with Teddy, learn the language. Going back to speaking the Native language is really a stretch, I hope you can at least admit that?? :533:



Well I was making a point about Jingoism, and the master/servant attitude that this "you must speak English only" stuff strikes me as a non-Caucasian person, so I was not degrading Black people, but degrading the attitude I perceived in the posts I read. My race had their heritage and religion forcefully eradicated by the conquerors, and so Jingoism really gets on my nerves, and last night I couldn't control myself from lashing out about it. Plus I had already gone to deadspin and looked at the link I tried to provide, so I was a bit grumpy about it already before I came to KSR. So here is a corrected link to what I wanted to post last night:

http://deadspin.com/dumb-people-mad-at-multilingual-america-the-beautiful-1514567876

My point was that none of you are speaking the language that was here when you took over, and to act like you should only speak the language that is the "official" language of the place you immigrate to is hypocritical because it is not how things always happen.


Now as far as learning to speak English, it is a progression. When your great-grandparents came to America, unless they came from an English speaking country, they did not speak English, and probably didn't learn much English. They lived in areas with other immigrants that spoke their language, and basically just moved the home country to America. Now maybe by the time your great-grandparents were older they knew a few words of English, but their native language was 99% of what they spoke. Then comes your grandparents, they probably started their lives the same as your great-grandparents, and spoke mostly the native language, then as they went to school, and as they branched out of the area of the city their fellow countrymen lived, they started to learn English, and by the time they had kids they were probably bi-lingual, and spoke the native language and English, probably using the native language when talking to their parents generation(your great-grand parents), but spoke mostly English outside the parents home, and probably spoke English 85% of the time with their kids, which were your parents. Then there are your parents who now speak 90% English, and rarely if ever speak the native language, then there is you that speaks 100% English and probably knows not much of the native language.

That is the progression of immigrants and the English language as a second language. That is how it has been done historically, and there have always been jingoistic people(ala Teddy), who feel you should learn English IMMEDIATELY when you get off the boat, but that is just not how it works in a free society, so to expect the first generation of immigrants today to suddenly learn English and only speak English is just not historically the way things work. They are going to work their way through it historically, just as our non-English as first language immigrants in past have done. I just recently watched the Godfather and Godfather II, and if you want a good illustration of how English works between immigrant generations that right there illustrates it to a T, but I they do it in 3 generations instead of the 4 I used in my generation.

[MTcatfan]

The others should be deported, you live here you are either American or you leave. One Nation Under God.

Not even sure I want to touch this one...

[cattails]

Well I was making a point about Jingoism, and the master/servant attitude that this "you must speak English only" stuff strikes me as a non-Caucasian person, so I was not degrading Black people, but degrading the attitude I perceived in the posts I read. My race had their heritage and religion forcefully eradicated by the conquerors, and so Jingoism really gets on my nerves, and last night I couldn't control myself from lashing out about it. Plus I had already gone to deadspin and looked at the link I tried to provide, so I was a bit grumpy about it already before I came to KSR. So here is a corrected link to what I wanted to post last night:

http://deadspin.com/dumb-people-mad-at-multilingual-america-the-beautiful-1514567876

My point was that none of you are speaking the language that was here when you took over, and to act like you should only speak the language that is the "official" language of the place you immigrate to is hypocritical because it is not how things always happen.


Now as far as learning to speak English, it is a progression. When your great-grandparents came to America, unless they came from an English speaking country, they did not speak English, and probably didn't learn much English. They lived in areas with other immigrants that spoke their language, and basically just moved the home country to America. Now maybe by the time your great-grandparents were older they knew a few words of English, but their native language was 99% of what they spoke. Then comes your grandparents, they probably started their lives the same as your great-grandparents, and spoke mostly the native language, then as they went to school, and as they branched out of the area of the city their fellow countrymen lived, they started to learn English, and by the time they had kids they were probably bi-lingual, and spoke the native language and English, probably using the native language when talking to their parents generation(your great-grand parents), but spoke mostly English outside the parents home, and probably spoke English 85% of the time with their kids, which were your parents. Then there are your parents who now speak 90% English, and rarely if ever speak the native language, then there is you that speaks 100% English and probably knows not much of the native language.

That is the progression of immigrants and the English language as a second language. That is how it has been done historically, and there have always been jingoistic people(ala Teddy), who feel you should learn English IMMEDIATELY when you get off the boat, but that is just not how it works in a free society, so to expect the first generation of immigrants today to suddenly learn English and only speak English is just not historically the way things work. They are going to work their way through it historically, just as our non-English as first language immigrants in past have done. I just recently watched the Godfather and Godfather II, and if you want a good illustration of how English works between immigrant generations that right there illustrates it to a T, but I they do it in 3 generations instead of the 4 I used in my generation.


I fully understand this, but the progression was moving to English, what came to America were craftsmen, great craftsmen. To a large extent they built this country and sadly many of these beautiful building are being taken down. We are not that far apart.

[CitizenBBN]

Good post MT, but I'd like to add a bit to your historical overview.

It's true the learning of English and the "melting pot" in general has been generational throughout American history. Each new group began basically huddled together and it was their children and grandchildren who then fully "integrated" if that's the right term for it.

However, prior to this period little special allowance was made for their lack of understanding of English or lack of other cultural norms. True within local enclaves you had signs in German or Italian or whatever but in general the cities and states and nation as a whole used only English. There are some records of New York officials and a few others making some allowances, but it was largely informal (i.e. the police officer who spoke Italian being brought in).

IMO that's important b/c all the studies on immigration and success prove one thing: the faster you learn the language and integrate with the culture the more successful you are economically, and that carries over for your children. The quicker new immigrants learn the language the better, and the more accommodation that is made the slower people tend to learn the language. It's tough to learn that second language, at least it is for me, but it's better in the long run to force it as quickly as possible.

It's interesting to note that this debate has gone on since the 1700s, and was VERY active during Teddy's time. Little has changed with regards to immigration in the US all that time. Those who come are seen as generally undesirable and unwilling to embrace America, and within 1-2 generations their children will be disliking the next group's arrival just as their grandparents were disliked. I'm Scotch/Irish, we didn't get any ticker tape parades back in the 1800s when the Potato Famine drove poor illiterate dirt farmers including my forefathers to this country. In 1-2 generations the children of current Spanish immigrants will be shunning some other group to arrive, and in fact you already see it with Mexican immigrants sometimes having issues with immigrants from other Central American nations. There's a pecking order even with the current wave of immigrants.

None of that has any bearing on this ad for me, which seems like a very positive message. I think for some what it harkens to is the "press 1 for English, 2 for Spanish" thing and I freely admit that hacks me off. Having a spanish option doesn't, but me having to hit the extra button does, but that's as much b/c people hate automated systems as anything else I suppose.

As for the native languages, I take a broad view of it, and historically all over the world when a land is conquered usually a new language is imposed and that's just how things go in the world. English was forced on the Anglo-Saxon people, the Scots, the Irish, even India. The unification of Germany forced out numerous variations of the Germanic languages. Even Native American tribes were known to conquer other tribes and areas and enforce their culture on those they defeated.

The Iroquois for example engaged in Mourning Wars which, while some of the history is disputed, most definitely led to the capture of people from other tribes who were then forced to adopt the culture of the capturing tribe. they quite literally replaced their dead by going and capturing people to replace them, keeping the tribe strong. Of course in more southern Native American tribes like the Aztecs we see conquest and cultural imposition on a scale and done with a viciousness that rivaled any European power.

This pattern is repeated throughout the globe, Africa, Asia, everywhere. It's not unique and it continues to this day. I take a pretty philosophical view of it b/c it's a natural part of the human experience. Sometimes it's not even violent, nations and groups will willingly sell land that includes people and those people then come under control of the new owners.

I presume if Russia or China conquers us we'll have to learn a new language and be expected to conform to their laws, and that's just how it goes. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but it most definitely is the way of things until humans can evolve to some Star Trek ideal, and that's a LONG way off.

[UKHistory]

America is to me...

Kentucky Basketball. Ford Mustangs. Coca-Cola. Ironically real Coke made with real sugar comes from Mexico. That is a different argument for a different time.

It is a beautiful commercial. Our nation's strength is our diversity. Our nation's strenght has been there has been enough land for people we didn't like in Europe or where ever to be out of my sight and get on with their own lives.

It is not exactly Love Your Neighbor but our system does allow the opportunity to overcome those bitter hatreds that bloodied Europe and the rest of the world.

Not that the US doesn't have blood on its hands. What this country did to the American Indians is a mark against us. No one is perfect.

That is off topic too.

We should all know how to speak different languages. But I will say this, to truly appreciate one another's differences we need to be able to communicate.

The laws of this coutnry were written in English and I believe English should be our first language. I have grave concerns that the emphasis on Spanish with such a large influx of illegal immigrants will destroy this country.

I think embracing illegals was a way to keep wages down and allow the richest to hoarde more and not pay citizens for an honest day's work.

That goes to chipping away at the middle class and putting more and more of the middle class to the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum.

Others have made the xenophobic argument that I have just made. Maybe I am as paranoid as the others. I don't think so.

We must have a common language to openly share our differences. Know many languages and be able to speak more than one.

But English should be first.

[MTcatfan]

Citizen, you are right the winner always assimilates the loser, and Natives were no different, but in a non-conquering situation I think things should be left to the natural progression of things. That is why I mentioned the free society thing. I personally loved the commercial, America is a melting pot and we have room for many different languages, religions, colors, and peoples, and I just can't stand jingoism and nationalism because we are not conquering people anymore. I also think that the generational adaptation(not assimilation) with the new immigrants is actually going to take just 1 generation. The kids of the current immigrants are going to be bi-lingual and be able to speak fluent Spanish and English, and like you said be ready to look down on the next immigrants.

[cattails]

Good post MT, but I'd like to add a bit to your historical overview.

It's true the learning of English and the "melting pot" in general has been generational throughout American history. Each new group began basically huddled together and it was their children and grandchildren who then fully "integrated" if that's the right term for it.

However, prior to this period little special allowance was made for their lack of understanding of English or lack of other cultural norms. True within local enclaves you had signs in German or Italian or whatever but in general the cities and states and nation as a whole used only English. There are some records of New York officials and a few others making some allowances, but it was largely informal (i.e. the police officer who spoke Italian being brought in).

IMO that's important b/c all the studies on immigration and success prove one thing: the faster you learn the language and integrate with the culture the more successful you are economically, and that carries over for your children. The quicker new immigrants learn the language the better, and the more accommodation that is made the slower people tend to learn the language. It's tough to learn that second language, at least it is for me, but it's better in the long run to force it as quickly as possible.

It's interesting to note that this debate has gone on since the 1700s, and was VERY active during Teddy's time. Little has changed with regards to immigration in the US all that time. Those who come are seen as generally undesirable and unwilling to embrace America, and within 1-2 generations their children will be disliking the next group's arrival just as their grandparents were disliked. I'm Scotch/Irish, we didn't get any ticker tape parades back in the 1800s when the Potato Famine drove poor illiterate dirt farmers including my forefathers to this country. In 1-2 generations the children of current Spanish immigrants will be shunning some other group to arrive, and in fact you already see it with Mexican immigrants sometimes having issues with immigrants from other Central American nations. There's a pecking order even with the current wave of immigrants.

None of that has any bearing on this ad for me, which seems like a very positive message. I think for some what it harkens to is the "press 1 for English, 2 for Spanish" thing and I freely admit that hacks me off. Having a spanish option doesn't, but me having to hit the extra button does, but that's as much b/c people hate automated systems as anything else I suppose.

As for the native languages, I take a broad view of it, and historically all over the world when a land is conquered usually a new language is imposed and that's just how things go in the world. English was forced on the Anglo-Saxon people, the Scots, the Irish, even India. The unification of Germany forced out numerous variations of the Germanic languages. Even Native American tribes were known to conquer other tribes and areas and enforce their culture on those they defeated.

The Iroquois for example engaged in Mourning Wars which, while some of the history is disputed, most definitely led to the capture of people from other tribes who were then forced to adopt the culture of the capturing tribe. they quite literally replaced their dead by going and capturing people to replace them, keeping the tribe strong. Of course in more southern Native American tribes like the Aztecs we see conquest and cultural imposition on a scale and done with a viciousness that rivaled any European power.

This pattern is repeated throughout the globe, Africa, Asia, everywhere. It's not unique and it continues to this day. I take a pretty philosophical view of it b/c it's a natural part of the human experience. Sometimes it's not even violent, nations and groups will willingly sell land that includes people and those people then come under control of the new owners.

I presume if Russia or China conquers us we'll have to learn a new language and be expected to conform to their laws, and that's just how it goes. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but it most definitely is the way of things until humans can evolve to some Star Trek ideal, and that's a LONG way off.


In a nut shell, that's the way it works. "IN God We Trust" was carried over from the old world. My feeling is every man or women has a dollar to spend (the dollar is your life), religion should not be forced onto anyone, or oppressed to those that practice any religion, freedom of religion or none at all. Like I said we all have a dollar to spend.

[CitizenBBN]

We're definitely a melting pot, I don't want a homogenous culture but rather to have it all mixed in. I also think this will be a 1 generation process due to the pace of information in this era.

I do think those that want to make more than informal allowances for language differences are wrong however. This is highlighted particularly by the "Ebonics" movement. Such efforts only serve to isolate people and insure they cannot move up economically. The quicker people learn the language and cultural norms (not losing theirs but learning "how things work") the better off they are, and the quickest way to learn a language is with total immersion.

That said I see no connection with the need for people to learn the common language of a nation (If I moved to France I'd get better jobs if I could speak French) with this ad. The fact that people would still know another language or celebrate with different cuisines means little to me. I just don't see this ad a having a bearing on that debate.

[CitizenBBN]

In a nut shell, that's the way it works. "IN God We Trust" was carried over from the old world. My feeling is every man or women has a dollar to spend (the dollar is your life), religion should not be forced onto anyone, or oppressed to those that practice any religion, freedom of religion or none at all. Like I said we all have a dollar to spend.

Just an historical footnote, but "In God We Trust" wasn't used in the US in any formal capacity until the Civil War, when it was first placed on minted currency. It didn't become the "official" slogan of the US until 1956 when it replaced the unofficial motto that I personally prefer, "E pluribus unum".

"E pluribus unum" means "Out of many, one", and to me sums up the nation nicely, and was made part of the Seal of the United States in 1782 by act of Congress.

That's just a personal aside, several of the Founders saw the new nation in terms of the Roman Republic, which is part of why Latin was used in some places. Since I have a deep fondness and respect for the Founders and their vision, I prefer that we harken back to their vision when possible, including things like this. to me "E pluribus unum" would be a better "official" motto b/c it's the motto I believe they would have chosen.

[jgraul]

The others should be deported, you live here you are either American or you leave. One Nation Under God.

These days it's more like "One Nation Under [removed for political correctness]".

[MTcatfan]

These days it's more like "One Nation Under [removed for political correctness]".

That may be but "One Nation under MY God Only" is just as prevalent, imho...

[MTcatfan]

Just an historical footnote, but "In God We Trust" wasn't used in the US in any formal capacity until the Civil War, when it was first placed on minted currency. It didn't become the "official" slogan of the US until 1956 when it replaced the unofficial motto that I personally prefer, "E pluribus unum".

"E pluribus unum" means "Out of many, one", and to me sums up the nation nicely, and was made part of the Seal of the United States in 1782 by act of Congress.

That's just a personal aside, several of the Founders saw the new nation in terms of the Roman Republic, which is part of why Latin was used in some places. Since I have a deep fondness and respect for the Founders and their vision, I prefer that we harken back to their vision when possible, including things like this. to me "E pluribus unum" would be a better "official" motto b/c it's the motto I believe they would have chosen.


I am with you on this one, "Out of Many, One" is what this country needs to go back to and understand this country is only as strong as the sum of its parts, and not where one part needs to dominate the others.

[jgraul]

"IN God We Trust" was carried over from the old world.

I'm not sure that's true, but I could be wrong. It's a paraphrase of a line from the Star-Spangled Banner which was written in the early 1800s. It didn't get put on our money until the mid 1800s and didn't become our national motto until a hundred years after that.

[jgraul]

That may be but "One Nation under MY God Only" is just as prevalent, imho...

Well said, my friend!!

[CitizenBBN]

I am with you on this one, "Out of Many, One" is what this country needs to go back to and understand this country is only as strong as the sum of its parts, and not where one part needs to dominate the others.

I have no problem with "In God we Trust", as I agree with the 9th Circuit that it doesn't in any way promote establishment of any official religion, and it is a phrase found in almost every religion and faith in one form or another, but I think "E pluribus unum" is a more succinct statement of the nation's founding and history.

[cattails]

I have no problem with "In God we Trust", as I agree with the 9th Circuit that it doesn't in any way promote establishment of any official religion, and it is a phrase found in almost every religion and faith in one form or another, but I think "E pluribus unum" is a more succinct statement of the nation's founding and history.

"E pluribus unum". I forgot about that, I like it, no one should be force feed anything, I need a little brush up on history don't I.

[Doc]

All this stuff about "original language" is bunk. In France they speak French despite it not being "the original language". If they held to that standard Pierre would still be writing on cave walls

http://timelifeblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/111142703.jpg?w=644

I doubt ANY country speaks the language of its very original peoples since most original languages are extinct.

I don't believe its is unreasonable for all the citizens of a nation to be able to communicate in the same language, even if it under the guise of safety. Traffic signs are in English. Is it unreasonable to expect a standard form of communication? Must we accommidate every language out there?

As for the topic/advertisement, I like that it emphasizes the diversity of the nation which is the point. At times the fauxrage that is exhibited by folks is disgusting.

[Catonahottinroof]

I think Coke achieved the goal of the advertisement.....to get people to think....and talk about it,

[cattails]

All this stuff about "original language" is bunk. In France they speak French despite it not being "the original language". If they held to that standard Pierre would still be writing on cave walls

http://timelifeblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/111142703.jpg?w=644

I doubt ANY country speaks the language of its very original peoples since most original languages are extinct.

I don't believe its is unreasonable for all the citizens of a nation to be able to communicate in the same language, even if it under the guise of safety. Traffic signs are in English. Is it unreasonable to expect a standard form of communication? Must we accommidate every language out there?

As for the topic/advertisement, I like that it emphasizes the diversity of the nation which is the point. At times the fauxrage that is exhibited by folks is disgusting.



:sHa_clap2:

[CitizenBBN]

"E pluribus unum". I forgot about that, I like it, no one should be force feed anything, I need a little brush up on history don't I.

Not at all IMO. "In God we Trust" as a general sentiment goes back a very long way, and is found as a statement in Judaism, the Christian Bible, and the Koran. It's first formal use in the US was brought about in the Civil War, a time of crisis, and one when nations reach for religious affirmation of their side, but it was a sentiment expressed by Francis Scott Key and clearly existed prior to that point. It just wasn't used formally. Supposedly the first use was by the regiment of the union army in the Battle of Antiedum (sp?).

The only reason I know any of the specifics about it, I had a teacher who was fascinated with looking at songs and slogans and such we take for granted and looking at their origins. Brilliant man fwiw, Dr. Summers at UK. He played a waltz version of the national anthem from the 1820s. It was originally a British bar song of sorts, and Key's version was used as a bar song, waltz, in productions, everything. Won a bar bet once when the guy didn't believe it wasn't the official "National Anthem" until 1931. Prior to that we really didn't have one, 2-3 different songs were used at different times.

My thing with "E pluribus unum" is just an aside to this conversation. Historically I prefer it as the official motto/slogan b/c I think it's fitting, but I didn't mean to hijack the discussion of language with the aside.

For that matter "E pluribus unum" also came from the old world, it is after all Latin, that's pretty Old World. :)

[CitizenBBN]

Well said Doc. This is why I find the idea of "reparations" so comical. Really? We're going to pay people for something from 200 years ago? Do we then get to collect on the people before us who did it to the group that paid that bill? Do the French Huguenots get to sue France? Do the french then sue the Italians over Caesar's invasion of Gaul? Do the citizens of Rome need to apologize for the salting of Carthage's fields?

What about the Aztecs? Man they were really brutal. Does the government of Mexico, the capital of which sits on the Aztec capital, need to pay the Toltec descendents? Mayan? Then they file against Spain I presume, who files against the Middle Eastern Arab states for the Moorish invasion.

Suffice to say we're going to need a LOT Of accountants.

that's the nature of the human experience. Sometimes, through just or unjust cause, violence settles disputes, and when it does that's pretty much that. Doesn't mean it's right, just that it is. You can even get reparations, but you'll notice it's the winning side always extracting them from the losers. Ironic I admit.

That's NOT to defend any of the particular actions taken against Native Americans by the US government. I am no fan of ANY government, and IMO those very acts prove why governments should be limited with limited powers. Power corrupts, and it was the accumulation of power that led to many of the great travesties of American expansion. Native tribes were moved not to further the growth of the nation per se, but to drive them from lands others wanted and didnt' want to pay for, so they bribed the government to take the land and then they got access or rights to use it. That is obviously a grossly unjust process. I don't think anyone gets reparations for it b/c as I said injustice goes back a long way, and you punish those responsible and they're all long dead, but it doesn't make those actions right.

There were some battles that were unavoidable, some conflicts that weren't going to be negotiated away, America was going to expand westward inevitably, but some were just simple greed. If nothing else the Bureau of Indian Affairs and such other entities were massively corrupt and led to much unnecessary suffering. I'm betting they still are full of a lot of crap.

I deeply enjoy the irony that laws written to sell out many Native tribes have been used to allow gambling and such and enrich those tribes, and many levels of government cannot stop it despite their efforts. Reminds me of a movie with John Ritter in the 70s where oil is found on tribal lands and they become massively rich as America grinds to a halt. Horrid movie, but I love the comic irony of that premise, the tribes driven to the most "worthless" land that ends up the most valuable.

[CitizenBBN]

Oh, and that's not to suggest that anyone living in the US should be forced to abandon their unique culture. I think it benefits everyone that we all speak a common language, that's just how economics works, but America's greatness is our diversity and uniqueness.

What would America be without the history of Native Americans intertwined in it? Native spiritualism and love of the land has become ingrained in our culture. When I was a kid every kid wanted to claim some "Indian blood" in them, which I think is a sign of respect for the Native cultures.

I was raised that you never shoot an animal you won't eat, and you don't waste it. that's not an European concept at all, where trophy hunting was the most common hunting when America was founded. That comes from the teachings of Native Americans, respect for the land and the animals.

Where would we be without Chinatowns and a Jewish Deli and all that goes with it? America without Southern culture and the rugged spirit of the Rockies, without the down to earth nature of those on the Great Plains? Each culture has brought it's own unique things that enrich our whole culture. In the end I think that's the idea of the commercial.

United as one people, IMO with a common language and culture but also with our own unique variations and extensions and heritage.

E Pluribus Unum. From the many, one.

[cattails]

Professor Chuck you remind me of a good friend that is a UPS pilot, has flown all over the world many times, war zones, middle east, simply all over the globe. He is also a history major and very well informed. It is interesting how little I know when I hear the thoughts on this board and setting down with my good friend Hugh Be Do, or at least that is what I call him. He tells me all the time Americans have no idea of how lucky we are to live in this country.

[CitizenBBN]

I'm afraid he would have a great advantage over me. Nothing like boots on the ground to really get a perspective. I'm just a rank amateur who was lucky to have 2-3 really good professors. I agree with him completely most Americans have no idea what real poverty is like or how good we have it.

The big thing now is the "inequality gap". You have to look far and wide in this country to find anyone as bad off as MOST people everywhere else in the world. Here if someone has a Mercedes and you only have a junker that's inequality. In the rest of the world people are thrilled to have a car at all. We're measuring with a very biased ruler.

Friend of mine went to India, has some family there. They stayed with some family in a major city, they are considered upper middle class there, and they had to bathe out of a bucket b/c the water supply is so unreliable. You can't go turn on a faucet and know any water is coming out, much less clean water. Imagine here if entire sections of our cities had no running water b/c they were "too poor to bother with". People would utterly lose their minds, almost everywhere else (outside of western Europe) it's standard procedure.

I've always liked US history, but never had any desire to teach and that eliminates most jobs in that field. lol.

[cattails]

Chuck in the military I was in Vietnam and Puerto Rico, both had awful living conditions. In Puerto Rico you had the upper class and the very low class who lived in 100 to 300 sq ft shacks made of what you found in junk yards. In Vietnam other than Saigon (only city I was in for a day before deploying to the jungle), you had village people who might live under a piece of 4 X 8 ten roof or a make shift grass hut, they survived by living off the land, roots, berries and what ever they could catch and of course rice. My buddy who flys UPS said when he is in S. Korea or any war zone said he had to make a high pitch take off to avoid any gun, rocket fire or entering into N. Korea air space. Of course most of his flights are not in these areas, very good pilot and about to retire next February. I have been up with him in a few of his own plans, bi-wing Stearman was a lot of fun, open cockpit front and back, it was a trainer aircraft.

Trust me it would be fun to set the two of you down together, I for one would learn a lot.

[suncat05]

I agree with this. I really think our strength is our diversity....But the key is most immigrants have come to the USA wanting to be an American..not a foreigner that lives in the USA...and that is what our immigration law must address.

My father was an immigrant from Sicily, as were his parents. But when asked what their nationality was, the answer was always the same: I am an AMERICAN! And it was said with pride.

That is missing today, because these ignorant anti-American teachers are more interested in helping the current POTUS turn our beloved country into something more akin to Kenya, or Europe, than the United States of America.

[MTcatfan]

My father was an immigrant from Sicily, as were his parents. But when asked what their nationality was, the answer was always the same: I am an AMERICAN! And it was said with pride.

That is missing today, because these ignorant anti-American teachers are more interested in helping the current POTUS turn our beloved country into something more akin to Kenya, or Europe, than the United States of America.

That is just pathetic...This type of discourse and hatred is a way bigger problem than the POTUS and the insane conspiracy theories the haters like to spin. This type of crap makes me want to vomit. Obama is the elected President of the United States and that deserves some respect, you don't have to like him but he is the freaking President. All I know is that even if my guy doesn't get elected I still respect the President, to bad so many people are racist pieces of s*** and treat Obama worse than they would a stray dog.

[MTcatfan]

The sad thing is that people like you are going to be the first ones to whine and complain when people disrespect and hate on the next Republican President, because that is how it is going to go. The people who have had to put up with the hatred towards Obama, are going to lash out at the next Republican President, and like this President it is going to mean that NOTHING gets done because no one wants to get along. It is my way or the highway, and Congress and the Presidency is not about leading any more, it is about blocking anything the other side wants to do...it is just pathetic.

[suncat05]

My friend, you do not know me. And I have a right to express my opinion just the same as you. In any manner I choose to do so. And I make no apology whatsoever.
You see what you see. I see what I see. It's very clear that you are not seeing the same things I see, and that others here see as well. So let's agree that we disagree and leave it at that.

And don't call me racist. My father was a Sicilian immigrant, my mother a 3/4 Cherokee Indian. I am married to a beautiful, wonderful Filipina woman who is my partner and my equal in all respects.
I do, however, know a closet Communist when I see one. And I call it like I see it.

[CitizenBBN]

I knew I should have locked this thread a day ago.