Reports of shots fired on Capital Hill..........

[suncat05]

Reportedly near the Hart Senate Building. Congressional staff told to "shelter in place" by Capitol Police.
Now being reported as an 'active shooter' situation.

Why do I find this amusing? Among other thoughts best left unstated.........

[KeithKSR]

An apparent car chase wound its way through DC and up Constitutional Avenue, police boxed the car in, and the driver opened fire on police.

Thank goodness for the DC gun laws, if not for them the driver of the car could have been armed.

[suncat05]

From what I have been able to glean from the media reports so far, there have been no reports of the driver of the vehicle being chased that indicate that the driver had any firearm.
Strange goings-on in D.C., and not just with Congress and the POTUS.

[DanISSELisdaman]

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/03/20805397-woman-shot-and-killed-by-capitol-police-after-chaotic-chase-from-white-house

[CitizenBBN]

Sounds like she ran into a barricade (intentionally is the implication) at the White House, tried to run over a SS agent supposedly, then the car chase and finally being cornered and shot. May have even been a child in the car of all things.

No doubt CNN will report it was a van full of people armed with AR-15s.

[Doc]

An apparent car chase wound its way through DC and up Constitutional Avenue, police boxed the car in, and the driver opened fire on police.

Thank goodness for the DC gun laws, if not for them the driver of the car could have been armed.

I heard she was unarmed, and there was a baby in the car. Not to take that as a criticism of the law enforcement. Sounds as if they followed correct procedure.

[jazyd]

Another mentally unstable person and yet they continue to reduce budgets and help for the mentally ill.

I am having trouble with them shooting and killing her. Yes she rammed a car but didnt show any weapon. Couldn't they have shot her tires out and approached with extreme caution?

[suncat05]

From what I gather from the media reports, she tried to hit a Secret Service officer with her vehicle. At that point it becomes what we call down here in Florida a "deadly missle", and use of deadly force for self-protection or the protection of others becomes an option as per the "Use of Force" matrix. Also saw raw footage on CNN of her being approached by numerous uniformed and non-uniformed officers, and after being told to get out of the car, she moved forward, backed up and struck a concrete barrier and almost another officer, then proceeded moving forward again in an attempt to escape. Moments later is when she was shot and killed.
I have not seen any reports as of this morning, not in the mood to turn the TV on right now.
Based on my training and experience, the use of deadly force was the proper response to the threat presented. And especially if she was not going to cooperate while driving a vehicle with the intent of hurting/killing any officer or any other person in her way.

[DanISSELisdaman]

They're now reporting that she had crashed her car before she was shot.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/04/20816675-woman-in-dc-chase-may-have-thought-obama-was-stalking-her-sources-say?lite

[jazyd]

I understand all that but she never showed a weapon, and there was a report this morning that after crashing her car she jumped out and ran and shot again. But even if she had not run, once she crashed the car wouldn't it be better to surround the car and demand she get out before cutting loose? If she had shot someone or showed a gun, fine shoot her in the head. I am fine with police shooting criminals trying to escape, murderers, hostage takers but this one doesn't ring right for me.
And how does a dental hygienist w/o a job for 13 months drive that kind of car. Even if she was still working, do they make that kind of money?


QUOTE=suncat05;113148]From what I gather from the media reports, she tried to hit a Secret Service officer with her vehicle. At that point it becomes what we call down here in Florida a "deadly missle", and use of deadly force for self-protection or the protection of others becomes an option as per the "Use of Force" matrix. Also saw raw footage on CNN of her being approached by numerous uniformed and non-uniformed officers, and after being told to get out of the car, she moved forward, backed up and struck a concrete barrier and almost another officer, then proceeded moving forward again in an attempt to escape. Moments later is when she was shot and killed.
I have not seen any reports as of this morning, not in the mood to turn the TV on right now.
Based on my training and experience, the use of deadly force was the proper response to the threat presented. And especially if she was not going to cooperate while driving a vehicle with the intent of hurting/killing any officer or any other person in her way.[/QUOTE]

[KeithKSR]

DC police screwed up when boxing in the car initially. There should have been no shots fired if they don't mess up initially. Also, shooting into traffic is not a wise choice for any law enforcement officer.

[Doc]

Another mentally unstable person and yet they continue to reduce budgets and help for the mentally ill.

I am having trouble with them shooting and killing her. Yes she rammed a car but didnt show any weapon. Couldn't they have shot her tires out and approached with extreme caution?

Didn't she also ram an officer?

[Doc]

one thing I've noticed is that the media coverage has not been as intense as it was over the Naval Shipyard incident. Wonder if the fact she was unarmed influenced the coverage a bit?

[Catonahottinroof]

Apparently she did. I think law enforcement did what they had to do, to protect themselves.


Didn't she also ram an officer?

[Doc]

Apparently she did. I think law enforcement did what they had to do, to protect themselves.

Had they not stopped her and she run down a pedestrian odds are the police would have been criticized for not being more aggressive. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The ones I have trouble with are the ones where the officers "bully" the accused or don't allow the perpetrator any opportunity to surrender such as the guy a few weeks ago who was in the car wreck and looking for help when he was shot by the police. IMO you have to be 100% sure a crime is being committed before you open fire. This lady was ramming things with her car so I have no issue with the police's actions.

[jazyd]

She did, but again no weapon was displayed, and why not shoot out the tires. Also, she was shot AFTER she wrecked her car so she couldn't hurt any pedestrians at that point. Again, why shoot her then, especially if it is true she had exited the car and was running away.



Didn't she also ram an officer?

[Darrell KSR]

No problem with them shooting her when she's in the car and it is operable. The car is a deadly weapon and police (and others) are entitled to use deadly force in their defense and defense of others to prevent death or serious bodily harm.

More problem if the car isn't operable, or if she is out of the car, sans a weapon, of course. That changes things.

I still give some leeway, given the circumstances. I haven't seen any video of the shooting (nor will I), but the circumstances, to me, would dictate what should or should not have happened. Media reports are notoriously unreliable anyway.

Bottom line - when they shot her, were people in reasonable fear of receiving serious bodily harm or death? (Not "were" in the past, "were" in the present--i.e., I'm not asking if she inflicted serious bodily harm or death; I'm asking was it reasonable to believe that when she was shot, she presented that danger.)

If the answer to that is yes, they did the right thing.
If the answer to that is no, they did not do the right thing.

[DanISSELisdaman]

You can't argue with that logic.