Cory Monteith dead of heroin/alcohol overdose

[Darrell KSR]

You just knew that was what it was going to be.

[CitizenBBN]

Sadly very predictable.

[jazyd]

What drug did he originally get started on? Just think how many tax dollars he could have generated

[BigBlueBrock]

What drug did he originally get started on? Just think how many tax dollars he could have generated

Just think if the billions we spent on drug enforcement and incarceration went towards rehabilitation. Maybe he'd still be alive.

[CitizenBBN]

What drug did he originally get started on? Just think how many tax dollars he could have generated

I'd bet $100 it was alcohol. Should we start Prohibition again?

[BigBlueBrock]

Time to post my favorite anti-War on Drugs video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91y9KqvVggY

[dan_bgblue]

Who is Kelly Monteith

[BigBlueBrock]

Who is Kelly Monteith

Cory Monteith was the 31-year-old star of Fox's Glee.

[MickintheHam]

Just think if the billions we spent on drug enforcement and incarceration went towards rehabilitation. Maybe he'd still be alive.

You and Jazy are closer in your political views than I ever imagined.

Shut down the DEA and you are both happy. No drug enforcement, no incarceration. We can reduce the size of Federal government and turn the rehab over to private enterprise where it will be effective.Brothers from another mother.

[BigBlueBrock]

You and Jazy are closer in your political views than I ever imagined.

Shut down the DEA and you are both happy. No drug enforcement, no incarceration. We can reduce the size of Federal government and turn the rehab over to private enterprise where it will be effective.Brothers from another mother.

Ha, only on this one minor detail. I can tell you after lurking that we are worlds apart on political philosophy (that holds true with everyone on this board that posts in the Barber Shop, which is why I generally abstain). Besides, I don't think you could shut down the DEA entirely. Even if you decriminalized possession of things like cocaine and heroine, you'd still need to police trafficking.

It's marijuana that's the big one that needs to be removed from the Schedule I narcotics list and sent down to the state level for legal status. Kentucky took a nice first step last year and knocked first time possession down to a ticket offense. Doing that alone is going to save the state over $40 million a year in enforcement and incarceration costs. It's a no-brainer to me that marijuana legalization needs to happen yesterday.

[dan_bgblue]

Cory Monteith was the 31-year-old star of Fox's Glee.

Sorry I got the first name wrong, and thanks for the info. I had never heard of him until he kicked off.

[BigBlueBrock]

Sorry I got the first name wrong, and thanks for the info. I had never heard of him until he kicked off.

I knew he was the star of Glee, but I didn't know his name until this happened (I don't watch the show).

[suncat05]

Sorry to see a vibrant young guy die like this, but once again that word comes up: CHOICES. Education may persuade some to make better choices, and I'm all for that. But there will ALWAYS be those out there who choose the wrong path, like this young man did. For him and those of his same train of thought, who lead other people down that same path as them, there needs to be harsh consequences.

But I agree, we need more intensive and better anti- drug education to start with, and it needs to begin at a very early age. But when the education and re-education don't work, then the consequences of bad choices need to be implemented, and those need to be harsh and painful.

[BigBlueBrock]

Sorry to see a vibrant young guy die like this, but once again that word comes up: CHOICES. Education may persuade some to make better choices, and I'm all for that. But there will ALWAYS be those out there who choose the wrong path, like this young man did. For him and those of his same train of thought, who lead other people down that same path as them, there needs to be harsh consequences.

But I agree, we need more intensive and better anti- drug education to start with, and it needs to begin at a very early age. But when the education and re-education don't work, then the consequences of bad choices need to be implemented, and those need to be harsh and painful.

Drug education and harsh penalties for usage don't work.

[suncat05]

Then what will? Education, re-education, and then more re-education? How many chances do you give a person who will not do what's right, especially when they've been repeatedly shown the error of their ways?

Bad choices must elicit bad consequences at some point when education fails.

[BigBlueBrock]

Then what will? Education, re-education, and then more re-education? How many chances do you give a person who will not do what's right, especially when they've been repeatedly shown the error of their ways?

Bad choices must elicit bad consequences at some point when education fails.

Education, prevention and rehabilitation. Did you not watch the video I posted? Portugal decriminalized drugs in 2001 and used the money it spent on enforcement and incarceration on prevention and rehabilitation. Usage is down (especially among teenagers), transmission rates of diseases are down, and # people in treatment has doubled. We've had 40 years of a war on drugs in the United States and all we have to show for it is increased purity, increased usage, increased arrests, increased incarceration, increased violence, increased drug war related deaths (not due to drug usage), and increased profits for drug cartels. All the while the US spends more and more ($40 billion a year at the moment). The War on Drugs is an outright failure and needs to end.

[CitizenBBN]

But I agree, we need more intensive and better anti- drug education to start with, and it needs to begin at a very early age. But when the education and re-education don't work, then the consequences of bad choices need to be implemented, and those need to be harsh and painful.

Our prisons are hell holes and we have thrown millions of drug users into them and it's made absolutely no difference. We've got harsh and painful down unless we want to start caning people and go from the highest incarceration rate in the civilized world to the highest in human history (if we aren't already).

I'm sorry he's dead, but no one jumped him from the dark alley and injected him with drugs. He wasn't sitting at home and someone broke in and killed him. He made choices for his life that got him killed. He's his own victim, and while that's sad trying to deny it with massive law enforcement is just more of the same nanny state mentality that leads to free cell phones and the welfare state. We have to step in and save people from themselves.

Why? I'm all for the education aspect, all for funding the rehab options and having resources available to help people, but I'm sick of this nation suffering massive crime b/c some people make bad personal choices. I put the truly innocent victims of crime ahead of those with self inflicted wounds, I have to b/c we all have to take that responsibility for our actions.

We want to help people and I DESPISE drug use and want it to end, but HOW we go about it is crucial. Massive welfare doesn't raise anyone out of poverty despite the seemingly easy step that people without who are given more will have more. In the same vein, making drugs illegal hasn't reduced drug use or gotten people out of the drug culture. It also has cost hundreds of thousands of lives of people who never did drugs, massive collateral damage, and we still have this plague.

If you have a plague and the cure you're trying isn't working very well and has massive bad side effects including killing people who aren't even infected, how long before we finally try a less intuitive medicine that has been proven to work empirically?

We had this debate in this country over alcohol, and it took about a century for us to finally try full blown Prohibition, realize it failed horribly, repeal it and accept people were going to consume alcohol and start working on how to deal with that reality. Now we have DUI laws, rehab, etc. that accept that vice and try to manage it as best we can b/c we KNOW we can't ban it. It only took 13 years for us to realize Prohibition was a disaster, we're into our 4th decade in with drugs and still refuse to accept that like alcohol it will be an evil we can only manage and not vanquish and accepting that actually leads to less use and less overall harm from it.

Drug prohibition has worked as well as alcohol prohibition. Legalize it at a federal level, funnel that money into rehab and education and even product substitution, do whatever we can, but let's not pretend prohibition will work if we just will it to do so. Accept that we failed, that we will always fail b/c no society with the level of personal freedom we enjoy can police this kind of personal choice nor can we successfully shut down the criminal trade that supplies it. We couldn't stop truck loads of alcohol in 55 gallon barrels with agents armed with tommy guns, we won't stop a suitcase full of heroin.

[BigBlueBrock]

We also need to move away from assigning morality to drug usage. Using cocaine doesn't make you a 'bad person' no more than drinking does. I've known perfectly decent human beings who have done cocaine or heroine, and I've known absolutely awful people who were drug free.

[CitizenBBN]

Education, prevention and rehabilitation. Did you not watch the video I posted? Portugal decriminalized drugs in 2001 and used the money it spent on enforcement and incarceration on prevention and rehabilitation. Usage is down (especially among teenagers), transmission rates of diseases are down, and # people in treatment has doubled. We've had 40 years of a war on drugs in the United States and all we have to show for it is increased purity, increased usage, increased arrests, increased incarceration, increased violence, increased drug war related deaths (not due to drug usage), and increased profits for drug cartels. All the while the US spends more and more ($40 billion a year at the moment). The War on Drugs is an outright failure and needs to end.

It's a counterintuitive position, I get that, but it's proven true over and over again in this country and others: when you decriminalize a vice, with funding of education and rehab you will actually REDUCE consumption of that vice.

The US proved it with Prohibition beyond conclusively. During Prohibition New York had more than 100,000 illegal bars in Manhattan alone by some estimates. It created the American mafia, led to massive government corruption, gang wars, and MORE people were drinking.

The cure of prohibition has become worse than the disease of drug use, spawning the gang violence and rampant crime we endure today, costing 100s of billions and it isn't reducing use. I get that it's a leap of faith, and sounds flat wrong, but legalizing these drugs is the best way to fight their use.

[BigBlueBrock]

It's a counterintuitive position, I get that, but it's proven true over and over again in this country and others: when you decriminalize a vice, with funding of education and rehab you will actually REDUCE consumption of that vice.

The US proved it with Prohibition beyond conclusively. During Prohibition New York had more than 100,000 illegal bars in Manhattan alone by some estimates. It created the American mafia, led to massive government corruption, gang wars, and MORE people were drinking.

The cure of prohibition has become worse than the disease of drug use, spawning the gang violence and rampant crime we endure today, costing 100s of billions and it isn't reducing use. I get that it's a leap of faith, and sounds flat wrong, but legalizing these drugs is the best way to fight their use.

I don't think it's counter intuitive at all. Think of how many times you've heard someone say they did something because someone told them they couldn't or shouldn't? There's a large number of people who do things just because they were told not to. Part of the appeal of doing drugs (for some people) is the fact that they're illegal and they're "sticking it to the man." The War on Drugs has glamorized drug usage big time for a lot of people. You remove that rebellious element and I guarantee you a lot of people (youth especially) will stop (or won't start) simply because it's no longer "cool."

Some people are just wired differently. Me and all my Leslie County High School classmates had the exact same DARE classes in elementary school. I guarantee half of us, by the time we graduated high school, had done some form of illegal drug - pills, marijuana, cocaine, whatever. I never had a desire to do any of it in high school. I wasn't drunk for the first time until I was 23, but I know people in my high school who would go to the bootleggers and load up every weekend. I currently go to the bar once or twice a week and smoke marijuana occasionally. I'd smoke MJ every day were it legal and I don't care to admit that. It's completely harmless and is a great way to relax, especially for people like me that internalize stress and anxiety, lol. I shouldn't have to fear years in prison for doing something that harms absolutely no one.

[MickintheHam]

Ha, only on this one minor detail. I can tell you after lurking that we are worlds apart on political philosophy (that holds true with everyone on this board that posts in the Barber Shop, which is why I generally abstain). Besides, I don't think you could shut down the DEA entirely. Even if you decriminalized possession of things like cocaine and heroine, you'd still need to police trafficking.

It's marijuana that's the big one that needs to be removed from the Schedule I narcotics list and sent down to the state level for legal status. Kentucky took a nice first step last year and knocked first time possession down to a ticket offense. Doing that alone is going to save the state over $40 million a year in enforcement and incarceration costs. It's a no-brainer to me that marijuana legalization needs to happen yesterday.

Oh, "Abstinance". That's something else you and Jazy probably agree on. There really is no generational thing here. What appear to be differences don't really exist!!! LOL!

[BigBlueBrock]

Oh, "Abstinance". That's something else you and Jazy probably agree on. There really is no generational thing here. What appear to be differences don't really exist!!! LOL!

Unless jazy thinks abstinence-only "sex education" is utterly pointless and moronic, then I sincerely doubt it. :P

[BigBlueBrock]

I've been listening to Kanye West's latest album all morning. I think it's safe to say there are some generational differences here. :653:

[CitizenBBN]

Truthfully I despise drug use around me. Can't stand it. Don't know why even, but if it were all legal I'd still never tolerate it around me. It's one of the few visceral, emotional reactions I have to something. I hate it as much as anyone I know.

So I don't want it legal b/c of any appeal, I just don't care to keep up this charade that is costing us all and gaining us nothing. It's pragmatism.

Personally I think pot does have an impact on people, just as alcohol does, and it's easy to go from social consumption to "relax" to it impacting career, earnings potential, lifestyle in negative ways. Just as people can drink too much till it impacts their jobs or personal life. Of course many can consume their whole lives and it never does, just depends on the person and circumstances, esp. why they are consuming something.

Regardless, that's each person's own life, and it's not like a person can't mess it up with booze or drugs with all the current laws out there, so why endure the crime and violence and expense along with not protecting people?

I'd rather fight against its use in other ways that have less collateral damage. Focus on the most dangerous drugs and let pot go, and focus on them with rehab and positive help versus the criminal code.


It is counterintuitive in a way, but mostly the argument just gets lost. For example if I come out and say I want to dramatically cut food stamp spending, many people hear "he doesn't care if the poor have food". likewise I say I want to legalize drugs and they hear "he is OK with drug use". Neither is true. I'm just trying to solve the problems with the acceptance of the basic homo economicus nature of man. People respond to the incentives given them, so to change behavior we have to change the incentives, not ignore them. Right now the only anti-drug incentive we have is jail time, and clearly that one isn't working to prevent either consumption or distribution. So to me the answer is simple: time to change incentive structures.

[BigBlueBrock]

Truthfully I despise drug use around me. Can't stand it. Don't know why even, but if it were all legal I'd still never tolerate it around me. It's one of the few visceral, emotional reactions I have to something. I hate it as much as anyone I know.


Interesting. I probably wouldn't be too comfortable being around people doing hard stuff like cocaine or heroine simply because those drugs do wild stuff to people. But I obviously don't care to be around people smoking pot, lol. Unless they won't pass :mad0049:

[bigsky]

Cigarettes are by far and away the #1 gateway drug. Ready to "Schedule 1" tobacco? Next is alcohol and third is pot. So start your gateway drug discussion where it belongs, with illegal drug use of tobacco by teens and preteens.

Pot is benign compared to nicotine and alcohol.

[CitizenBBN]

Cigarettes are by far and away the #1 gateway drug. Ready to "Schedule 1" tobacco? Next is alcohol and third is pot. So start your gateway drug discussion where it belongs, with illegal drug use of tobacco by teens and preteens.

Pot is benign compared to nicotine and alcohol.

Like I said, I bet $100 he took his first drink of booze before he took his first hit of weed.