As big as Rupp was

[cattails]

Cawood Ledford and Mr. Wildcat Bill Keightley in my eyes will always be the 2 biggest names in UK basketball history. I know Rupp was the basketball coach, won championships and all that, but Ledford and Keightley were there for a lot of years and several coaches, I'll always miss those 2 guys. Your thoughts?

[UKHistory]

Mr. Wildcat and Cawood are two very important men to the great tradition. Both would be beloved had they been a part of other programs.

But Kentucky athletics is special to us all and certainly Kentucky Basketball is unique.

No Rupp and there is no UK basketball. No crazy loyalty or tremendous passion. As we are more removed from Rupp's living legacy, your feelings are more natural and will be more common.

I have many fond memories of both men. But Rupp made Kentucky. It is like talking about your favorite presidents and not including George Washington. That is fine and your right. But without Washington's precedent of two terms and willingly leaving office, you never know what kind of dictatorship we might live in today.

Or even the one we do live in today.

[cattails]

I think you are right, but of the 3 men, Rupp is the one I miss the least. I was around for the Rupp days, I remember hearing on the radio the Texas Western game, I remember Rupp talking about LSU and Mr. Pete getting his 60 and we'll hold the other 4 guys and win. Rupp coached a long time, but Mr. Bill and Cawood went through a lot of coaches and players.

[Doc]

Without Rupp there is no Bill Keightly or Cawood Ledford. Both would be insignificant to some degree. Nobody cares about the manager or radio guy for a so so team. Both BK and CL had personalities that were bright and they brought something special to the program, both were deservedly well loved within the program but it was Adolph that created it.

I should add that Rupp was coach "before my time" so even though I fondly recall Bill and Cawood, but not Adolph, I'll give the Baron the credit.

[blue2ksr]

I love all three, and they all had a big hand in why we are as crazy about UK basketball today as we are.

BUT, Coach Rupp got the ball rolling, no pun intended, and was the architect of it all. He set the standard high and that is why it is so high today.

My gosh, what that man created!!

:sign0068:

[cattails]

Well of course Rupp got the ball rolling, he deserves all the credit, he was the master. I look at Mr. Wildcat and he was with all those coaches, how often does an equipment manager become such a major part of something so big. Cawood, no one could call a game like Cawood, he was behind the mic a long time and he had a special way of calling a game. Rupp will be remembered for what he did, Cawood and Mr. Bill will be remembered for who they were.

[Darrell KSR]

Without Rupp there is no Bill Keightly or Cawood Ledford. Both would be insignificant to some degree. Nobody cares about the manager or radio guy for a so so team. Both BK and CL had personalities that were bright and they brought something special to the program, both were deservedly well loved within the program but it was Adolph that created it.

I should add that Rupp was coach "before my time" so even though I fondly recall Bill and Cawood, but not Adolph, I'll give the Baron the credit.

Ditto.

[suncat05]

I still remember sitting in our kitchen with my Dad and listening to Cawood call those games on the radio. There was nothing like it then, and certainly not now. Those were some of the best times in my life, sharing those live game experiences with my Dad.
Mr. Keightly was a gift from Heaven above for many of our favorite Wildcat players, and all of the coaches he served under too. And I'll bet ya that during his time in the Marines in WWII that he was as "gung ho" as they came. Cawood as well! Those WWII Marines were a special breed.
But none of it would have come to pass without the "man in the brown suit", Coach Rupp. Everything we have enjoyed as Kentucky basketball fans is all because of him.

[BarristerCat]

Without Rupp there is no Bill Keightly or Cawood Ledford. Both would be insignificant to some degree. Nobody cares about the manager or radio guy for a so so team. Both BK and CL had personalities that were bright and they brought something special to the program, both were deservedly well loved within the program but it was Adolph that created it.

I should add that Rupp was coach "before my time" so even though I fondly recall Bill and Cawood, but not Adolph, I'll give the Baron the credit.

+1. I don't really think there is a reasonable argument otherwise, honestly. Ask Mick (or a handful of others on here) about how important Adolph was.

[dan_bgblue]

I still remember sitting in our kitchen with my Dad and listening to Cawood call those games on the radio. There was nothing like it then, and certainly not now. Those were some of the best times in my life, sharing those live game experiences with my Dad.
Mr. Keightly was a gift from Heaven above for many of our favorite Wildcat players, and all of the coaches he served under too. And I'll bet ya that during his time in the Marines in WWII that he was as "gung ho" as they came. Cawood as well! Those WWII Marines were a special breed.
But none of it would have come to pass without the "man in the brown suit", Coach Rupp. Everything we have enjoyed as Kentucky basketball fans is all because of him.

Ditto. I listened to those same games, but it would not have been the same if UK were enduring multiple 12-14 seasons. I am not sure even Cawood could have made up for listening to the games with no hope of winning them.

[Doc]

I don't want the OP to think I'm disparaging either Bill Keightly or Cawood Ledford. I'm not. Both were wonderful assets to the program and contribute to what makes UK, well, UK.

[cattails]

I don't want the OP to think I'm disparaging either Bill Keightly or Cawood Ledford. I'm not. Both were wonderful assets to the program and contribute to what makes UK, well, UK.

Did not take it that way at all.

[ajp40505]

Nice thread, but it's an absurd statement that Cawood and Bill Keightley were more important to the program than Adolph.

Cawood was great, but he couldn't paint a picture of the game with the same level of excitement as Claude Sullivan.

I used to sit back in the cage and pump Keightley for war stories on Rupp and the players. Joe B told me once that he'd never had an employee at any level that he couldn't think of some phase of their job that they could do better except Keightley. That's quite the complement.

[cattails]

Nice thread, but it's an absurd statement that Cawood and Bill Keightley were more important to the program than Adolph.

Cawood was great, but he couldn't paint a picture of the game with the same level of excitement as Claude Sullivan.

I used to sit back in the cage and pump Keightley for war stories on Rupp and the players. Joe B told me once that he'd never had an employee at any level that he couldn't think of some phase of their job that they could do better except Keightley. That's quite the complement.

Never "once" said they were more important. I enjoyed Cawood calling the game better than anyone, Keightley speaks for himself. When we lost these two men we lost a lot of history.

[blue2ksr]

When we lost these two men we lost a lot of history.

We sure as heck did.

Both were treasures that we were very fortunate to have for so long.

I made a point to visit Mr. Wildcat's grave in Lawrenceburg a few months ago. It is still hard to believe he is gone.

[badrose]

My earliest memories as a Cats fan have Cawood's voice ingrained in them. Televised games were not as plentiful then as they are now, but even then it was his voice most of us chose to listen to. Keightly's legacy is a testament to time well spent. He was a fixture that earned our appreciation and love because he was one of us. Both of them are icons for most of us old-timers and they deserve that honor.

But just as our Lord is the "Reason for the season," Rupp is the sole reason for our great anticipation for college basketball season. Others may now have more wins, but if percentage is the true measure, he's still the winningest coach in college basketball history. He made Kentucky THE best program that still endures. The fact that his record is downplayed and that many have tried to besmirch his name as a person, only causes most of us to double down on his contribution to what we've come to know and love.

[MickintheHam]

Cattails with respect to all the great posts you have made at this site I will give you a pass on this one and not say how absolutely crazy you are for starting this thread. Everyone is wrong once in a while.:trink39:

[kingcat]

I remember my Dad and his cousin sometimes watching or most often listening to the Cats with his cousin pounding the floor and seemingly living or dying with every play of the game. The praise and the blame was always attributed to Coach Rupp and I grew to believe he was UK basketball.

What the man accomplished and how he grew the fan base is directly responsible for the success we enjoy now and the passion fans feel for the UK Wildcats. It is unparalleled and so is my respect and opinion regarding his place in basketball history...not just at UK but directly attributable to my love of the game itself.

I love the others who have been so much a part of my UK fan life and consider them family of sorts, but Coach Rupp gave us this gift and will always be on another level to me. I remember well the sadness at his retirement, and at his passing.

Adolph Rupp is UK basketball to me....but I do respect and share the OP's fondness for those two UK icons.

[ajp40505]

Never "once" said they were more important.

No, what you said was in your eyes Cawood and Keightley were the two biggest names in UK basketball history. You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

[cattails]

Cattails with respect to all the great posts you have made at this site I will give you a pass on this one and not say how absolutely crazy you are for starting this thread. Everyone is wrong once in a while.:trink39:

I had to LOL Mick :sHa_dielaughing:. I think the concept of what I was trying to put across was lost from the beginning, I think I'm still pulling buck shot out of my tail as I type. Cawood and Mr. Bill were decades of history with so many coaches. Keightley was nothing more than an equipment manager, but he was also the father figure to so many players, he became bigger than life at UK. When he passed away decades of history were lost, kind of like our WW2 Vets, not many left and fewer everyday. Keightley lived the life inside UK where no other had gone, or for that matter ever will again. He is a lost treasure of information that can not be replaced. What did he do to win games at UK? Very little, but he was there with Rupp from 1962, 46 seasons on the UK sidelines, worked under Adolph Rupp, Joe B. Hall, Eddie Sutton, Rick Pitino. Orlando "Tubby" Smith and Billy Gillispie, 6 coaches and it would have been wonderful to have seen him with Cal and gotten his thoughts. He was really the only person that had first hand information on what all these coaches were like, now that is gone. Cawood began broadcasting Kentucky Wildcat games in 1953 and for 39 years did so as the voice of UK basketball and football, he was simply the voice I grew up with. Rupp for sure put UK in the front row of basketball and paved the way for 4 other coaches to win national titles at UK. Cal is the closest thing to Rupp we have ever had and if he stayed here long enough I have little doubt he would win multiple titles. Rupp has proven he is the greatest coach we have ever had at UK, but we have proven we can win without him, UK is still bigger than any coach we have ever had. And at least in my life time we will never have another Cawood Ledford or a Bill Keightley, they are ingrained in the UK legacy as timeless personalities and historians that are lost forever.

[cattails]

No, what you said was in your eyes Cawood and Keightley were the two biggest names in UK basketball history. You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

True, and there is a big difference between important and biggest names, could be I got off my feet a little there also :bonk: Read my post to Mick it might shed a little light.

[Krank]

I had to LOL Mick :sHa_dielaughing:. I think the concept of what I was trying to put across was lost from the beginning, I think I'm still pulling buck shot out of my tail as I type. Cawood and Mr. Bill were decades of history with so many coaches. Keightley was nothing more than an equipment manager, but he was also the father figure to so many players, he became bigger than life at UK. When he passed away decades of history were lost, kind of like our WW2 Vets, not many left and fewer everyday. Keightley lived the life inside UK where no other had gone, or for that matter ever will again. He is a lost treasure of information that can not be replaced. What did he do to win games at UK? Very little, but he was there with Rupp from 1962, 46 seasons on the UK sidelines, worked under Adolph Rupp, Joe B. Hall, Eddie Sutton, Rick Pitino. Orlando "Tubby" Smith and Billy Gillispie, 6 coaches and it would have been wonderful to have seen him with Cal and gotten his thoughts. He was really the only person that had first hand information on what all these coaches were like, now that is gone. Cawood began broadcasting Kentucky Wildcat games in 1953 and for 39 years did so as the voice of UK basketball and football, he was simply the voice I grew up with. Rupp for sure put UK in the front row of basketball and paved the way for 4 other coaches to win national titles at UK. Cal is the closest thing to Rupp we have ever had and if he stayed here long enough I have little doubt he would win multiple titles. Rupp has proven he is the greatest coach we have ever had at UK, but we have proven we can win without him, UK is still bigger than any coach we have ever had. And at least in my life time we will never have another Cawood Ledford or a Bill Keightley, they are ingrained in the UK legacy as timeless personalities and historians that are lost forever.

Gotcher back, CT.

I think the above is the post you now WISH was the thread starter, but I am disappointed (NOT angry at anyone, but disappointed) that the numerous extremely intelligent posters on this thread apparently chose not to read between the lines of your original post and, despite the many many logical, yet somewhat black and white, responses, you have continued to be criticized even though EVERYONE here knows how much you value Coach Rupp.

I can say that I agree with those who say "no Rupp, no party with Cawood and Bill", but I DO get where you are coming from. It is YOUR personal take on the connectivity of the UK Basketball legacy and your FEELING about these two GIANTS of the greatest tradition in Basketball History is much appreciated, even if I tend to agree with the GENERAL angle that Rupp is the most important figure in that history.

There was NOBODY in college basketball lore like Bill Keightley at ANY other school, with his longevity and HOW he represented UK through many decades of service. I get it that a more HUMAN connection is, frankly, more logical to be voiced, within that context, as a reasonable viewpoint.

There was NOBODY in college basketball broadcasting, and even ALL sports broadcasting, who can even remotely compare to Cawood Ledford, otherwise he would not have been THE broadcaster that the entire NCAA preferred to be on the radio for the Final Four, etc. His promotion of OUR team, the Commonwealth's team DWARFS all other possible PR for this program. His legacy is, and always will be, sorely missed. That connection, over many decades, to soooo many folks who could ONLY listen to most games cannot possibly be quantified.

Rupp was THE man, the greatest basketball coach AT ANY LEVEL ANYWHERE and he, frankly, deserves MUCH more positive thoughts associated with him in the media, amongst rival fans, etc., but the personal connection with him could only be so close, thus I get what CT is saying and, because I know how passionate he is about ALL THREE figures mentioned in this thread, it is a no-brainer that the criticism he has received here, which has only been a tad overstated (again, I am NOT angry with any of the respondents) for the most part leans too hard toward a black and white assessment, which almost NEVER applies to actual life situations.

You RULE, CT, and I, for one, am very glad you brought this topic up. Bravo, sir!

[blueboss]

Simply put it's apples and oranges, Rupp went out got the ingredients, mixed them up, put them in the oven and baked them, and then put the icing on the cake with Cawood and Kieghtley and now we as fans still get our cake and get to eat it too, but there would have never been a cake if it wern't for Rupp.

Cawood and Kieghtley did not build the program but they sure classed it up, not that it needed it.

[cattails]

Gotcher back, CT.

I think the above is the post you now WISH was the thread starter, but I am disappointed (NOT angry at anyone, but disappointed) that the numerous extremely intelligent posters on this thread apparently chose not to read between the lines of your original post and, despite the many many logical, yet somewhat black and white, responses, you have continued to be criticized even though EVERYONE here knows how much you value Coach Rupp.

I can say that I agree with those who say "no Rupp, no party with Cawood and Bill", but I DO get where you are coming from. It is YOUR personal take on the connectivity of the UK Basketball legacy and your FEELING about these two GIANTS of the greatest tradition in Basketball History is much appreciated, even if I tend to agree with the GENERAL angle that Rupp is the most important figure in that history.

There was NOBODY in college basketball lore like Bill Keightley at ANY other school, with his longevity and HOW he represented UK through many decades of service. I get it that a more HUMAN connection is, frankly, more logical to be voiced, within that context, as a reasonable viewpoint.

There was NOBODY in college basketball broadcasting, and even ALL sports broadcasting, who can even remotely compare to Cawood Ledford, otherwise he would not have been THE broadcaster that the entire NCAA preferred to be on the radio for the Final Four, etc. His promotion of OUR team, the Commonwealth's team DWARFS all other possible PR for this program. His legacy is, and always will be, sorely missed. That connection, over many decades, to soooo many folks who could ONLY listen to most games cannot possibly be quantified.

Rupp was THE man, the greatest basketball coach AT ANY LEVEL ANYWHERE and he, frankly, deserves MUCH more positive thoughts associated with him in the media, amongst rival fans, etc., but the personal connection with him could only be so close, thus I get what CT is saying and, because I know how passionate he is about ALL THREE figures mentioned in this thread, it is a no-brainer that the criticism he has received here, which has only been a tad overstated (again, I am NOT angry with any of the respondents) for the most part leans too hard toward a black and white assessment, which almost NEVER applies to actual life situations.

You RULE, CT, and I, for one, am very glad you brought this topic up. Bravo, sir!


Krank is the MAN!!!!!! Good to know ya got my back. Yep I would have started this thread in a different way looking back. It did however promote some thought provoking stimulating conversation though. :trink39: This would have been better over a few cold ones!! I for sure am not angry with anyone, I enjoy the banter (putting away addresses I have looked up to hunt down those offenders and locking the fire arms up :sign0157: really :sign0157:). As my dad used to say, "pick a side son, I'll take the other, he loved to debate. Mucho grassy ass to all that responded, it was fun.

[cattails]

Simply put it's apples and oranges, Rupp went out got the ingredients, mixed them up, put them in the oven and baked them, and then put the icing on the cake with Cawood and Kieghtley and now we as fans still get our cake and get to eat it too, but there would have never been a cake if it wern't for Rupp.

Cawood and Kieghtley did not build the program but they sure classed it up, not that it needed it.

:sHa_clap2: Wish I had said that. :action-smiley-057:

[kingcat]

So you guys are dissin' The Baron huh?

Shame shame shame......shame on you

...if you can't dance too!

Can't stop me now hear what I say
My feet wanna move so get out my way


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEzQV75LDL0

[Krank]

Simply put it's apples and oranges, Rupp went out got the ingredients, mixed them up, put them in the oven and baked them, and then put the icing on the cake with Cawood and Kieghtley and now we as fans still get our cake and get to eat it too, but there would have never been a cake if it wern't for Rupp.

Cawood and Kieghtley did not build the program but they sure classed it up, not that it needed it.

King, I see your Shirley and Co. and raise you one Godfather of Soul...

This is a tribute to MY MAN, the BOSSman.... HIT IT!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC2ZY2loo74

[kingcat]

Haha..

Ugh. Made me feel good 'yall !

[cattails]

King, I see your Shirley and Co. and raise you one Godfather of Soul...

This is a tribute to MY MAN, the BOSSman.... HIT IT!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC2ZY2loo74

Saw James at the Owensboro Sport Center years ago

[kingcat]

I was a big Motown fan when it wasn't so cool for a white boy around here to be so. I especially loved Aretha, Wilson Pickett, and Mr. Excitement, Jackie Wilson

[Krank]

I was a big Motown fan when it wasn't so cool for a white boy around here to be so. I especially loved Aretha, Wilson Pickett, and Mr. Excitement, Jackie Wilson

I am a '70's Motown guy... Stevie's stuff early to mid '70's but the very best ever on Motown... Marvin Gaye's golden quad... "What's Going On", "Let's Get it On", the underrated "I Want You" and the almost forgotten, but brilliant (though angry, which I happen to like) double LP, "Here My Dear".

Not Motown, but give me Al Green or give me death... "I'm Still in Love With You", the greatest "love/gettin' DOWN" record ever... yes, infinitely better than all of Barry White's music combined (see also Marvin's "I Want You" above... you're wife will thank me later).

The most underrated, though, after James Brown (one of the ten most important artists in the history of recorded American music)... late '60's to mid '70's Isley Brothers... don't sleep on the band that could play ANY kind of R&B you could name, the proof being that they did just that.

JMO, but I am right. Take it to the bank.

[blueboss]

King, I see your Shirley and Co. and raise you one Godfather of Soul...

This is a tribute to MY MAN, the BOSSman.... HIT IT!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC2ZY2loo74

Holy f&$ing wow!!! A James Brown Tribute! I pale in the company of all you keypad craftsmen. I love living in "The Nation" and all of it's Blue Brethren (and sistren) thanks much ...now on to number 9, number 9, number 9...

[cattails]

I was a big Motown fan when it wasn't so cool for a white boy around here to be so. I especially loved Aretha, Wilson Pickett, and Mr. Excitement, Jackie Wilson

Aretha can still belt out some tunes!!

[badrose]

Maybe I missed it but I'm not seeing Otis Redding here. That man could make you cry. You could just feel his pain.

[Darrell KSR]

Maybe I missed it but I'm not seeing Otis Redding here. That man could make you cry. You could just feel his pain.

What position did he play? Small forward?

[badrose]

What position did he play? Small forward?

Tight end.

[Darrell KSR]

Tight end.

Then he's in the wrong sport to talk about Rupp and Keightley...although Cawood went bo...oh, I won't go there, lest someone get the wrong impression.

[badrose]

Hey, you started it.

[Krank]

Maybe I missed it but I'm not seeing Otis Redding here. That man could make you cry. You could just feel his pain.

badrose, if I had to list every R&B artist that I love from it's greatest era (say '67-'75) it might take two posts, but I am glad you mentioned Otis, one of my Top 10 favorite singers of all time. He came from the Stax family of artists, which I strongly prefer to most classic Motown.

That's deep South Soul music and Stax featured probably the greatest "house band" that any label ever had. MOST of that band ends up being the backing band for The Blues Brothers... Donald "Duck" Dunn, Steve Cropper, etc.

[kingcat]

For Krank...this is a MG song I always liked


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gkUsGkxZSvM


..here's a bonus. One of the best Motown songs you probably never heard


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zhVXsBn1pOw

and back on topic. The Baron of the Bluegrass


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-x4y_klm_zk

[Krank]

For Krank...this is a MG song I always liked


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gkUsGkxZSvM

One of the greatest voices ever. No question.

[blue2ksr]

Hey, I thought we were talking about how tall Rupp was.

[BudCat_upthecreek]

Cattails with respect to all the great posts you have made at this site I will give you a pass on this one and not say how absolutely crazy you are for starting this thread. Everyone is wrong once in a while.:trink39:

Yep, every good poster deserves a pass.

Those were the only nights my mother didn't confiscate my transistor radio UK BB Games w/Cawood, took it even though the Reds were playing, school came first except for the Cats.

[cattails]

Maybe I missed it but I'm not seeing Otis Redding here. That man could make you cry. You could just feel his pain.

Otis is settin on the dock of the bay.